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Anonymous wrote:I just can't get super worked up about this. A bunch of things going on. A huge factor is Arlington is getting wealthier and wealthier. More people CAN afford private school than ever before. Covid, some left and won't ever come back. And yes, the equity dog whistle. [google]There is a lot of misrepresentation I see on this board about how there is no homework (not true), no one is allowed to fail any more (not true), everyone gets an A (not true), no rigorous content for more advanced students (not true), blah, blah. High school is plenty rigorous in APS if your student is capable and on that track. Intensified content is back in middle school. And if you want your kid pulled out for gifted services in APS, well we never did that so move to Fairfax and enjoy all that comes with that.[b]

Many kids are still going public in Arlington and my genuine reaction is I'm glad for anyone to leave. More space for my kids and I hope it siphons off the more extreme wealth, which I don't want my kids around anyway.

Exactly. People misrepresenting probably don’t even have kids in APS.

Did you see the link I posted regarding writing at APS. We need to stop denying that there are issues. Most grads are unprepared for college. This is a country wide issue and Arlington is not immune.

I’m a DP and I read it. Thank you for posting this. I am grateful to hear these perspectives. It is beyond unacceptable that students are reporting they were never assigned a research paper during their entire time at APS. To this day I can remember some of the research papers I was assigned in my (excellent) public high school. My first research paper was assigned in 5th grade. We had a unit on using the library for research and we all had to write a 2 page paper. I’m not sure if we should expect research papers from 5th graders, but by high school it should be standard for all English and History classes.

How in the world is this not happening? Is the student wrong?

That student is wrong, perhaps not about their individual experience, but it’s not the norm. My kids definitely have done them in ES, maybe they’re not called that, but they’ve had writing assignments that are age-appropriate “research papers.” And same for MS, obviously a lot closer to a real research paper at that point.

I do think the writing curriculum is lacking, but I think that’s a problem at the National level, and even when I was in college, back when dinosaurs roamed the earth, my ENG professors complained that none of their students could write a good paper. I don’t know what the answer is, but it might have something to do with public school teachers largely having education degrees, while private school teachers often have other degrees, like English, for example. You can’t major in English without learning how to write well, and you can’t teach how to write if you can’t do it well yourself.

PP is misinformed. In order for a teacher to teach English in grades 6-12 in VA, they must have an English degree, and usually have a Masters, too, given the competitive nature of English teaching jobs. Education degrees are only seen in grades K-5.

That's not true for middle school. English teachers in middle school just need a BA (in any subject) and an English endorsement. Under VA law, you can get the English endorsement with 21 semester hours in English-related coursework. (A BA degree is roughly 120 semester hours.) My kid's APS MS English teacher has a BA in interior design according to LinkedIn...

1. I think it is wild that people are using LinkedIn in 2023.

2. Career switchers exist but they still must take appropriate education courses in order to qualify for licensure. These programs typically fall short of credit requirements for masters degrees so you won't find them listed outside of resumes.

3.VA requires proof of practicum hours that are only available to education students so they must have some exposure to instruction and pedagogy courses.

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Anonymous wrote:I just can't get super worked up about this. A bunch of things going on. A huge factor is Arlington is getting wealthier and wealthier. More people CAN afford private school than ever before. Covid, some left and won't ever come back. And yes, the equity dog whistle. [google]There is a lot of misrepresentation I see on this board about how there is no homework (not true), no one is allowed to fail any more (not true), everyone gets an A (not true), no rigorous content for more advanced students (not true), blah, blah. High school is plenty rigorous in APS if your student is capable and on that track. Intensified content is back in middle school. And if you want your kid pulled out for gifted services in APS, well we never did that so move to Fairfax and enjoy all that comes with that.[b]

Many kids are still going public in Arlington and my genuine reaction is I'm glad for anyone to leave. More space for my kids and I hope it siphons off the more extreme wealth, which I don't want my kids around anyway.

Exactly. People misrepresenting probably don’t even have kids in APS.

Did you see the link I posted regarding writing at APS. We need to stop denying that there are issues. Most grads are unprepared for college. This is a country wide issue and Arlington is not immune.

I’m a DP and I read it. Thank you for posting this. I am grateful to hear these perspectives. It is beyond unacceptable that students are reporting they were never assigned a research paper during their entire time at APS. To this day I can remember some of the research papers I was assigned in my (excellent) public high school. My first research paper was assigned in 5th grade. We had a unit on using the library for research and we all had to write a 2 page paper. I’m not sure if we should expect research papers from 5th graders, but by high school it should be standard for all English and History classes.

How in the world is this not happening? Is the student wrong?

That student is wrong, perhaps not about their individual experience, but it’s not the norm. My kids definitely have done them in ES, maybe they’re not called that, but they’ve had writing assignments that are age-appropriate “research papers.” And same for MS, obviously a lot closer to a real research paper at that point.

I do think the writing curriculum is lacking, but I think that’s a problem at the National level, and even when I was in college, back when dinosaurs roamed the earth, my ENG professors complained that none of their students could write a good paper. I don’t know what the answer is, but it might have something to do with public school teachers largely having education degrees, while private school teachers often have other degrees, like English, for example. You can’t major in English without learning how to write well, and you can’t teach how to write if you can’t do it well yourself.

PP is misinformed. In order for a teacher to teach English in grades 6-12 in VA, they must have an English degree, and usually have a Masters, too, given the competitive nature of English teaching jobs. Education degrees are only seen in grades K-5.

That's not true for middle school. English teachers in middle school just need a BA (in any subject) and an English endorsement. Under VA law, you can get the English endorsement with 21 semester hours in English-related coursework. (A BA degree is roughly 120 semester hours.) My kid's APS MS English teacher has a BA in interior design according to LinkedIn...

A BA is 120 credits. They don’t all have to be in English. Also you can’t get an endorsement without a license which is separate coursework in education.

It's a status symbol thing - as wealthier and wealthier families move into ARL, they'll shift more and more to private. I don't know why this isn't obvious to you.

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Anonymous wrote:I just can't get super worked up about this. A bunch of things going on. A huge factor is Arlington is getting wealthier and wealthier. More people CAN afford private school than ever before. Covid, some left and won't ever come back. And yes, the equity dog whistle. There is a lot of misrepresentation I see on this board about how there is no homework (not true), no one is allowed to fail any more (not true), everyone gets an A (not true), no rigorous content for more advanced students (not true), blah, blah. High school is plenty rigorous in APS if your student is capable and on that track. Intensified content is back in middle school. And if you want your kid pulled out for gifted services in APS, well we never did that so move to Fairfax and enjoy all that comes with that.

Many kids are still going public in Arlington and my genuine reaction is I'm glad for anyone to leave. More space for my kids and I hope it siphons off the more extreme wealth, which I don't want my kids around anyway.

I agree with the part about Arlington getting wealthier. I think that’s the main driver. If you aren’t happy with the product that APS offers for your child, and you can easily afford it, why not go private? In an overcrowded school district, you’re really not hurting anyone. Plenty of families will still choose public. The schools won’t be hurting for good studenfs.

Arlington doesn’t have good privates nor is it convenient for reaching most of the good privates, so if parents are sending their kids to privates that’s not a positive reflection on APS even if pockets of the county are getting wealthier.

Tons of people go to Bishop O’Connell which is literally across the street from an APS school. The “good privates” you speak of are reasonably convenient to anyone living near the Key or Chain Bridge. In fact, parts of Arlington are more convenient to those schools than parts of DC. So I’m not sure it really says anything other than the fact that people are resourced enough to pay tuition and drive.

Plenty of Arlington residents in top DC privates.

What are the top DC privates? Asking for a friend.

There’s a board for that!

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Anonymous wrote:I just can't get super worked up about this. A bunch of things going on. A huge factor is Arlington is getting wealthier and wealthier. More people CAN afford private school than ever before. Covid, some left and won't ever come back. And yes, the equity dog whistle. There is a lot of misrepresentation I see on this board about how there is no homework (not true), no one is allowed to fail any more (not true), everyone gets an A (not true), no rigorous content for more advanced students (not true), blah, blah. High school is plenty rigorous in APS if your student is capable and on that track. Intensified content is back in middle school. And if you want your kid pulled out for gifted services in APS, well we never did that so move to Fairfax and enjoy all that comes with that.

Many kids are still going public in Arlington and my genuine reaction is I'm glad for anyone to leave. More space for my kids and I hope it siphons off the more extreme wealth, which I don't want my kids around anyway.

I agree with the part about Arlington getting wealthier. I think that’s the main driver. If you aren’t happy with the product that APS offers for your child, and you can easily afford it, why not go private? In an overcrowded school district, you’re really not hurting anyone. Plenty of families will still choose public. The schools won’t be hurting for good studenfs.

Arlington doesn’t have good privates nor is it convenient for reaching most of the good privates, so if parents are sending their kids to privates that’s not a positive reflection on APS even if pockets of the county are getting wealthier.

Tons of people go to Bishop O’Connell which is literally across the street from an APS school. The “good privates” you speak of are reasonably convenient to anyone living near the Key or Chain Bridge. In fact, parts of Arlington are more convenient to those schools than parts of DC. So I’m not sure it really says anything other than the fact that people are resourced enough to pay tuition and drive.

It appears “desperate enough” would be a better description than “resourced enough.”

Haha I don’t think people choosing between Yorktown and a 50k (or more) annual tuition payment are desperate. But maybe you and I have different definitions of desperate.

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Anonymous wrote:I just can't get super worked up about this. A bunch of things going on. A huge factor is Arlington is getting wealthier and wealthier. More people CAN afford private school than ever before. Covid, some left and won't ever come back. And yes, the equity dog whistle. There is a lot of misrepresentation I see on this board about how there is no homework (not true), no one is allowed to fail any more (not true), everyone gets an A (not true), no rigorous content for more advanced students (not true), blah, blah. High school is plenty rigorous in APS if your student is capable and on that track. Intensified content is back in middle school. And if you want your kid pulled out for gifted services in APS, well we never did that so move to Fairfax and enjoy all that comes with that.

Many kids are still going public in Arlington and my genuine reaction is I'm glad for anyone to leave. More space for my kids and I hope it siphons off the more extreme wealth, which I don't want my kids around anyway.

I agree with the part about Arlington getting wealthier. I think that’s the main driver. If you aren’t happy with the product that APS offers for your child, and you can easily afford it, why not go private? In an overcrowded school district, you’re really not hurting anyone. Plenty of families will still choose public. The schools won’t be hurting for good studenfs.

Arlington doesn’t have good privates nor is it convenient for reaching most of the good privates, so if parents are sending their kids to privates that’s not a positive reflection on APS even if pockets of the county are getting wealthier.

Tons of people go to Bishop O’Connell which is literally across the street from an APS school. The “good privates” you speak of are reasonably convenient to anyone living near the Key or Chain Bridge. In fact, parts of Arlington are more convenient to those schools than parts of DC. So I’m not sure it really says anything other than the fact that people are resourced enough to pay tuition and drive.

It appears “desperate enough” would be a better description than “resourced enough.”

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Anonymous wrote:I just can't get super worked up about this. A bunch of things going on. A huge factor is Arlington is getting wealthier and wealthier. More people CAN afford private school than ever before. Covid, some left and won't ever come back. And yes, the equity dog whistle. There is a lot of misrepresentation I see on this board about how there is no homework (not true), no one is allowed to fail any more (not true), everyone gets an A (not true), no rigorous content for more advanced students (not true), blah, blah. High school is plenty rigorous in APS if your student is capable and on that track. Intensified content is back in middle school. And if you want your kid pulled out for gifted services in APS, well we never did that so move to Fairfax and enjoy all that comes with that.

Many kids are still going public in Arlington and my genuine reaction is I'm glad for anyone to leave. More space for my kids and I hope it siphons off the more extreme wealth, which I don't want my kids around anyway.

I agree with the part about Arlington getting wealthier. I think that’s the main driver. If you aren’t happy with the product that APS offers for your child, and you can easily afford it, why not go private? In an overcrowded school district, you’re really not hurting anyone. Plenty of families will still choose public. The schools won’t be hurting for good studenfs.

Arlington doesn’t have good privates nor is it convenient for reaching most of the good privates, so if parents are sending their kids to privates that’s not a positive reflection on APS even if pockets of the county are getting wealthier.

Tons of people go to Bishop O’Connell which is literally across the street from an APS school. The “good privates” you speak of are reasonably convenient to anyone living near the Key or Chain Bridge. In fact, parts of Arlington are more convenient to those schools than parts of DC. So I’m not sure it really says anything other than the fact that people are resourced enough to pay tuition and drive.

Plenty of Arlington residents in top DC privates.

What are the top DC privates? Asking for a friend.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I just can't get super worked up about this. A bunch of things going on. A huge factor is Arlington is getting wealthier and wealthier. More people CAN afford private school than ever before. Covid, some left and won't ever come back. And yes, the equity dog whistle. There is a lot of misrepresentation I see on this board about how there is no homework (not true), no one is allowed to fail any more (not true), everyone gets an A (not true), no rigorous content for more advanced students (not true), blah, blah. High school is plenty rigorous in APS if your student is capable and on that track. Intensified content is back in middle school. And if you want your kid pulled out for gifted services in APS, well we never did that so move to Fairfax and enjoy all that comes with that.

Many kids are still going public in Arlington and my genuine reaction is I'm glad for anyone to leave. More space for my kids and I hope it siphons off the more extreme wealth, which I don't want my kids around anyway.

I agree with the part about Arlington getting wealthier. I think that’s the main driver. If you aren’t happy with the product that APS offers for your child, and you can easily afford it, why not go private? In an overcrowded school district, you’re really not hurting anyone. Plenty of families will still choose public. The schools won’t be hurting for good studenfs.

Arlington doesn’t have good privates nor is it convenient for reaching most of the good privates, so if parents are sending their kids to privates that’s not a positive reflection on APS even if pockets of the county are getting wealthier.

Tons of people go to Bishop O’Connell which is literally across the street from an APS school. The “good privates” you speak of are reasonably convenient to anyone living near the Key or Chain Bridge. In fact, parts of Arlington are more convenient to those schools than parts of DC. So I’m not sure it really says anything other than the fact that people are resourced enough to pay tuition and drive.

Plenty of Arlington residents in top DC privates.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just can't get super worked up about this. A bunch of things going on. A huge factor is Arlington is getting wealthier and wealthier. More people CAN afford private school than ever before. Covid, some left and won't ever come back. And yes, the equity dog whistle. There is a lot of misrepresentation I see on this board about how there is no homework (not true), no one is allowed to fail any more (not true), everyone gets an A (not true), no rigorous content for more advanced students (not true), blah, blah. High school is plenty rigorous in APS if your student is capable and on that track. Intensified content is back in middle school. And if you want your kid pulled out for gifted services in APS, well we never did that so move to Fairfax and enjoy all that comes with that.

Many kids are still going public in Arlington and my genuine reaction is I'm glad for anyone to leave. More space for my kids and I hope it siphons off the more extreme wealth, which I don't want my kids around anyway.

I agree with the part about Arlington getting wealthier. I think that’s the main driver. If you aren’t happy with the product that APS offers for your child, and you can easily afford it, why not go private? In an overcrowded school district, you’re really not hurting anyone. Plenty of families will still choose public. The schools won’t be hurting for good studenfs.

Arlington doesn’t have good privates nor is it convenient for reaching most of the good privates, so if parents are sending their kids to privates that’s not a positive reflection on APS even if pockets of the county are getting wealthier.

Tons of people go to Bishop O’Connell which is literally across the street from an APS school. The “good privates” you speak of are reasonably convenient to anyone living near the Key or Chain Bridge. In fact, parts of Arlington are more convenient to those schools than parts of DC. So I’m not sure it really says anything other than the fact that people are resourced enough to pay tuition and drive.

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]I think that evaluation of math skills in elementary has gone waaaay downhill since COVID. Kids used to take actual math tests on paper. They could get partial credit by showing their work. Now every math test is on the iPad, there is no partial credit, and many of the offered tests have major errors.

Last year I asked to see one of the tests after my daughter failed it and it was riddled with errors in the questions. Shockingly bad. The teacher hasn't even looked at the questions and just recorded the scores. After all, it was the official test software supplied by APS and was supposed to mimic the SOL. Why wouldn't it be correct? Unfortunately, it's total crap.

All classroom unit math tests should be on paper. Partial credit should be available if you show your work. That's how teachers learn where students have gaps. [/quote]

Yes I recall you posting about this incessantly last year. Time to get a new soapbox. [/quote]

Impressive that you remember PP’s posts from last year. Seems like you spend most of your time on DCUM.[/quote]

haha, yes i probably do spend too much time on dcum. but this post stood out cuz the PP posted so much about this one teacher and this one test. there are problems in aps yes, but any system can have one bad apple. seems like pp is obsessed with this one point.[/quote]

I get tired of hearing people rant about the same thing over and over on dcum without doing anything about it. Join a committee. Make a public comment to the school board if it bothers you that much. [/quote]
Oh yes, because no one has ever complained about the APS writing curriculum before. If you don't want to read it, there's a scroll feature for that. [/quote]

do you complain where it matters? do you work to improve it? or do you just rant on here? [/quote]
Who made you the board police? Geeze.[/quote]

so i guess the answer is no.

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Anonymous wrote:I just can't get super worked up about this. A bunch of things going on. A huge factor is Arlington is getting wealthier and wealthier. More people CAN afford private school than ever before. Covid, some left and won't ever come back. And yes, the equity dog whistle. [google]There is a lot of misrepresentation I see on this board about how there is no homework (not true), no one is allowed to fail any more (not true), everyone gets an A (not true), no rigorous content for more advanced students (not true), blah, blah. High school is plenty rigorous in APS if your student is capable and on that track. Intensified content is back in middle school. And if you want your kid pulled out for gifted services in APS, well we never did that so move to Fairfax and enjoy all that comes with that.[b]

Many kids are still going public in Arlington and my genuine reaction is I'm glad for anyone to leave. More space for my kids and I hope it siphons off the more extreme wealth, which I don't want my kids around anyway.

Exactly. People misrepresenting probably don’t even have kids in APS.

Did you see the link I posted regarding writing at APS. We need to stop denying that there are issues. Most grads are unprepared for college. This is a country wide issue and Arlington is not immune.

I was just going to comment that this is an issue far beyond Arlington, far beyond Virginia, and likely has to do with the abysmal misguided national spell-it-like-you-guess-it philosophy (aka Lucy Calkins) that's now (thankfully) being abandoned. My youngest is learning to spell and write correctly.

Joe Feldman is new Lucy Calkins. Well intentioned but misguided and lacks any rigorous evidence basis but it sure sounds great in theory. Look him up. APS hired his company as a consultant on all the new equity initiatives.

I think educational consultants should be banned. My grandmother’s 6th grade education provided her with stronger writing skills than the majority of college bound seniors today.

Anonymous wrote:I have one kid in private, one in public. Considered private for the older one but couldn't justify 50K tuition plus extra commute to DC. Also, the real problems in APS seem to me to be in elementary and middle--elimination of homework, grades, lack of discipline... In high school, you can take accelerated, AP, dual enrollment, and opt out of the lowering of standards.

Agreed. High school (which is where a lot of people consider private) is the least of our worries.

I have one kid in private, one in public. Considered private for the older one but couldn't justify 50K tuition plus extra commute to DC. Also, the real problems in APS seem to me to be in elementary and middle--elimination of homework, grades, lack of discipline... In high school, you can take accelerated, AP, dual enrollment, and opt out of the lowering of standards.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just can't get super worked up about this. A bunch of things going on. A huge factor is Arlington is getting wealthier and wealthier. More people CAN afford private school than ever before. Covid, some left and won't ever come back. And yes, the equity dog whistle. There is a lot of misrepresentation I see on this board about how there is no homework (not true), no one is allowed to fail any more (not true), everyone gets an A (not true), no rigorous content for more advanced students (not true), blah, blah. High school is plenty rigorous in APS if your student is capable and on that track. Intensified content is back in middle school. And if you want your kid pulled out for gifted services in APS, well we never did that so move to Fairfax and enjoy all that comes with that.

Many kids are still going public in Arlington and my genuine reaction is I'm glad for anyone to leave. More space for my kids and I hope it siphons off the more extreme wealth, which I don't want my kids around anyway.

I agree with the part about Arlington getting wealthier. I think that’s the main driver. If you aren’t happy with the product that APS offers for your child, and you can easily afford it, why not go private? In an overcrowded school district, you’re really not hurting anyone. Plenty of families will still choose public. The schools won’t be hurting for good studenfs.

Arlington doesn’t have good privates nor is it convenient for reaching most of the good privates, so if parents are sending their kids to privates that’s not a positive reflection on APS even if pockets of the county are getting wealthier.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:My high school student hasn't done much in terms of research papers. I do worry about what that means in college.

I definitely remember writing research papers before college, but I was also taught how to make an actual outline. Somewhere along the way, having study skills be an actual independent class that every student had to take went away. Our kids are struggling because of this.

My personal belief is that they will still be able to succeed just fine in college; but they will have a learning curve at the beginning much steeper than they otherwise would. Colleges are well aware that students are coming out of high school less/ill-prepared for college writing. There will be introductory ENG classes where, hopefully, they get caught up; and there are often writing support efforts for those who need extra help learning to write at the college level.

NOVA has an intro ENG course required for all students, as well as a class about basic study skills, etc. I don't think that's entirely unique to NOVA. The fact that even a community college needs to require a student skills class for its students speaks volumes about what our high schools are producing and allowing to graduate.

That's nice and for wealthy students you are right and they can will have time and energy and parent urging to go get help and even pay for tutoring or private essay coaching.

But look at Wakefield. They churn out students who can't read very well and they certainly can't write very well but they manage to get along and they get A's in high school so by all accounts it looks like they are going to be fine in college. Except they get there and they don't. And many of those kids have more limited resources one of them being time. If you are a college student who needs to work and every single class requires some degree of reading and writing and it's struggle to do that then add in doing that for 5 classes and guess what you get? A kid who drops out before fall break. But that's ok because APS can brag about the students that get admitted to college. It doesn't matter that they aren't capable of doing the work to stay there bc their high school education was so lacking.

Please share with us the actual data that you have that shows that Wakefield students “by all accounts look like they are going to do fine in college” but “they get there and they don’t.”

+1 Yes, please share the data. My kids and many of their friends who attend or attended Wakefield have taken advantage of the AP Capstone program offered there, and their AP scores suggest they have the skills they need to be successful in college-level courses:

https://wakefield.apsva.us/ap-network/

oh my god did you seriously ignore the majority of the students in the school who are not taking AP classes? Ohhhh wait that’s right if course you did bc you made sure your kids were segregated and weren’t with “those kind of kids”

Different poster here. You’re talking out your a$$. That poster was responding to the ridiculous post suggesting without any data that Wakefield students who “look like they are going to do fine” in college get there “and don’t.”

Obviously the ones who “look like they are going to do fine” are the ones who take AP courses. And according to US News, just under half of Wakefield students take AP courses, which is about the same as a dozen Fairfax County high schools (and is higher than Alexandria). That’s a pretty high participation rate for a school with so much diversity.