Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The people (person?) on this thread saying "you can just walk away" doesn't understand that when you are employed by someone, you can't always. Not only might there not be another job suitable to your skillset (and being a dancer is a niche skillset), but these industries tend to be insular. Quitting a tour could piss off not only the artist, but also the choreographer, tour manager, booking agent, etc. Sure, maybe it gets so bad that you are willing to move in with your parents and work at McDonald's. But if simply asking for a workplace free of sexual harassment and coercion could result in you losing your job AND being blackballed in your industry, then no you CAN'T just "walk away."

There is no reason that entering the entertainment industry should mean that you subject yourself to abuse and harassment, I don't understand why so many people think that should be the case. Why? Why shouldn't an entertainer be entitled to a safe workplace?

At the highest levels, entertainers need to be a special brand of crazy to keep entertaining and keep things interesting. You lose that and they become boring/uninteresting. So the assumption is that you will deal with a little bit of crazy in the industry. It's not a factory floor concerned with OHSA protections. It's entertainment.

It's like going to a law firm and complaining about all of the combative, scheming personalities. Well...yes.

Again, other hugely popular performers do not treat their employees like this. She is wildly unprofessional.

And she doesn’t have the fan base (other than the remarkably determined stan in this thread) to ride this out. Bye Lizzo 👋

Lizzo will not be cancelled. Just like Cardi B has not been cancelled.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who tf is this large Lizzo person and why is she a thing?

She's a national treasure. She was invited to the Library of Congress and is the only person in 200 years that was allowed to use James Madison's crystal flute.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The people (person?) on this thread saying "you can just walk away" doesn't understand that when you are employed by someone, you can't always. Not only might there not be another job suitable to your skillset (and being a dancer is a niche skillset), but these industries tend to be insular. Quitting a tour could piss off not only the artist, but also the choreographer, tour manager, booking agent, etc. Sure, maybe it gets so bad that you are willing to move in with your parents and work at McDonald's. But if simply asking for a workplace free of sexual harassment and coercion could result in you losing your job AND being blackballed in your industry, then no you CAN'T just "walk away."

There is no reason that entering the entertainment industry should mean that you subject yourself to abuse and harassment, I don't understand why so many people think that should be the case. Why? Why shouldn't an entertainer be entitled to a safe workplace?

At the highest levels, entertainers need to be a special brand of crazy to keep entertaining and keep things interesting. You lose that and they become boring/uninteresting. So the assumption is that you will deal with a little bit of crazy in the industry. It's not a factory floor concerned with OHSA protections. It's entertainment.

It's like going to a law firm and complaining about all of the combative, scheming personalities. Well...yes.

Again, other hugely popular performers do not treat their employees like this. She is wildly unprofessional.

And she doesn’t have the fan base (other than the remarkably determined stan in this thread) to ride this out. Bye Lizzo 👋

Lizzo will not be cancelled. Just like Cardi B has not been cancelled.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The people (person?) on this thread saying "you can just walk away" doesn't understand that when you are employed by someone, you can't always. Not only might there not be another job suitable to your skillset (and being a dancer is a niche skillset), but these industries tend to be insular. Quitting a tour could piss off not only the artist, but also the choreographer, tour manager, booking agent, etc. Sure, maybe it gets so bad that you are willing to move in with your parents and work at McDonald's. But if simply asking for a workplace free of sexual harassment and coercion could result in you losing your job AND being blackballed in your industry, then no you CAN'T just "walk away."

There is no reason that entering the entertainment industry should mean that you subject yourself to abuse and harassment, I don't understand why so many people think that should be the case. Why? Why shouldn't an entertainer be entitled to a safe workplace?

At the highest levels, entertainers need to be a special brand of crazy to keep entertaining and keep things interesting. You lose that and they become boring/uninteresting. So the assumption is that you will deal with a little bit of crazy in the industry. It's not a factory floor concerned with OHSA protections. It's entertainment.

It's like going to a law firm and complaining about all of the combative, scheming personalities. Well...yes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The people (person?) on this thread saying "you can just walk away" doesn't understand that when you are employed by someone, you can't always. Not only might there not be another job suitable to your skillset (and being a dancer is a niche skillset), but these industries tend to be insular. Quitting a tour could piss off not only the artist, but also the choreographer, tour manager, booking agent, etc. Sure, maybe it gets so bad that you are willing to move in with your parents and work at McDonald's. But if simply asking for a workplace free of sexual harassment and coercion could result in you losing your job AND being blackballed in your industry, then no you CAN'T just "walk away."

There is no reason that entering the entertainment industry should mean that you subject yourself to abuse and harassment, I don't understand why so many people think that should be the case. Why? Why shouldn't an entertainer be entitled to a safe workplace?

At the highest levels, entertainers need to be a special brand of crazy to keep entertaining and keep things interesting. You lose that and they become boring/uninteresting. So the assumption is that you will deal with a little bit of crazy in the industry. It's not a factory floor concerned with OHSA protections. It's entertainment.

It's like going to a law firm and complaining about all of the combative, scheming personalities. Well...yes.

Again, other hugely popular performers do not treat their employees like this. She is wildly unprofessional.

And she doesn’t have the fan base (other than the remarkably determined stan in this thread) to ride this out. Bye Lizzo 👋

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The people (person?) on this thread saying "you can just walk away" doesn't understand that when you are employed by someone, you can't always. Not only might there not be another job suitable to your skillset (and being a dancer is a niche skillset), but these industries tend to be insular. Quitting a tour could piss off not only the artist, but also the choreographer, tour manager, booking agent, etc. Sure, maybe it gets so bad that you are willing to move in with your parents and work at McDonald's. But if simply asking for a workplace free of sexual harassment and coercion could result in you losing your job AND being blackballed in your industry, then no you CAN'T just "walk away."

There is no reason that entering the entertainment industry should mean that you subject yourself to abuse and harassment, I don't understand why so many people think that should be the case. Why? Why shouldn't an entertainer be entitled to a safe workplace?

At the highest levels, entertainers need to be a special brand of crazy to keep entertaining and keep things interesting. You lose that and they become boring/uninteresting. So the assumption is that you will deal with a little bit of crazy in the industry. It's not a factory floor concerned with OHSA protections. It's entertainment.

It's like going to a law firm and complaining about all of the combative, scheming personalities. Well...yes.

This is why I can both 1) sympathize with the dancers who had to work in that environment, bc I wouldn't want to, and also 2) wonder with some exasperation what the dancers expected when they joined Lizzo Inc, known for raunchy, overtly sexual (but positive!) lyrics. I think artistic endeavors like rock bands, etc. can't be easily compared to a corporate job. That's why when people say, how would you feel if this happened at your job, it hits as being a bit off. My job isn't producing/stylizing raunchy rap music, and if it were, I wouldn't be stunned that it also entailed raunchy, vulgar activities.

Being overtly sexual and body-positive are not the same things as pressuring an employee to do something sexual against their will, and fat-shaming an employee. These women are not suing Lizzo for being raunchy.

In professional sports, rookie athletes are hazed into doing embarrassing things and constantly critiqued about their bodies.

Some workplaces are just a little bit different.

Okay? I’m not pro-hazing, either.

I get that you really want it to be okay for Lizzo to pressure her employees into groping strippers’ breasts and eating bananas out of their vaginas, but it’s just not.

You're also not a pro athlete. Or an entertainer.

Stop comparing your workplace expectations to theirs.

Lol this is such a load of horseshit. Gtfo with your sexual harassment apologist nonsense

Lol, it is what it is. A lot of these entertainers and selling sex and sex appeal and you're hellbent on comparing their workplace dynamics to Bob in the IT department.

Other performers do not behave this way with employees. Taylor Swift doesn’t behave like this nor Beyoncé.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The people (person?) on this thread saying "you can just walk away" doesn't understand that when you are employed by someone, you can't always. Not only might there not be another job suitable to your skillset (and being a dancer is a niche skillset), but these industries tend to be insular. Quitting a tour could piss off not only the artist, but also the choreographer, tour manager, booking agent, etc. Sure, maybe it gets so bad that you are willing to move in with your parents and work at McDonald's. But if simply asking for a workplace free of sexual harassment and coercion could result in you losing your job AND being blackballed in your industry, then no you CAN'T just "walk away."

There is no reason that entering the entertainment industry should mean that you subject yourself to abuse and harassment, I don't understand why so many people think that should be the case. Why? Why shouldn't an entertainer be entitled to a safe workplace?

At the highest levels, entertainers need to be a special brand of crazy to keep entertaining and keep things interesting. You lose that and they become boring/uninteresting. So the assumption is that you will deal with a little bit of crazy in the industry. It's not a factory floor concerned with OHSA protections. It's entertainment.

It's like going to a law firm and complaining about all of the combative, scheming personalities. Well...yes.

Again, other hugely popular performers do not treat their employees like this. She is wildly unprofessional.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The people (person?) on this thread saying "you can just walk away" doesn't understand that when you are employed by someone, you can't always. Not only might there not be another job suitable to your skillset (and being a dancer is a niche skillset), but these industries tend to be insular. Quitting a tour could piss off not only the artist, but also the choreographer, tour manager, booking agent, etc. Sure, maybe it gets so bad that you are willing to move in with your parents and work at McDonald's. But if simply asking for a workplace free of sexual harassment and coercion could result in you losing your job AND being blackballed in your industry, then no you CAN'T just "walk away."

There is no reason that entering the entertainment industry should mean that you subject yourself to abuse and harassment, I don't understand why so many people think that should be the case. Why? Why shouldn't an entertainer be entitled to a safe workplace?

At the highest levels, entertainers need to be a special brand of crazy to keep entertaining and keep things interesting. You lose that and they become boring/uninteresting. So the assumption is that you will deal with a little bit of crazy in the industry. It's not a factory floor concerned with OHSA protections. It's entertainment.

It's like going to a law firm and complaining about all of the combative, scheming personalities. Well...yes.

This is why I can both 1) sympathize with the dancers who had to work in that environment, bc I wouldn't want to, and also 2) wonder with some exasperation what the dancers expected when they joined Lizzo Inc, known for raunchy, overtly sexual (but positive!) lyrics. I think artistic endeavors like rock bands, etc. can't be easily compared to a corporate job. That's why when people say, how would you feel if this happened at your job, it hits as being a bit off. My job isn't producing/stylizing raunchy rap music, and if it were, I wouldn't be stunned that it also entailed raunchy, vulgar activities.

Being overtly sexual and body-positive are not the same things as pressuring an employee to do something sexual against their will, and fat-shaming an employee. These women are not suing Lizzo for being raunchy.

In professional sports, rookie athletes are hazed into doing embarrassing things and constantly critiqued about their bodies.

Some workplaces are just a little bit different.

Okay? I’m not pro-hazing, either.

I get that you really want it to be okay for Lizzo to pressure her employees into groping strippers’ breasts and eating bananas out of their vaginas, but it’s just not.

You're also not a pro athlete. Or an entertainer.

Stop comparing your workplace expectations to theirs.

Lol this is such a load of horseshit. Gtfo with your sexual harassment apologist nonsense

Lol, it is what it is. A lot of these entertainers and selling sex and sex appeal and you're hellbent on comparing their workplace dynamics to Bob in the IT department.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The people (person?) on this thread saying "you can just walk away" doesn't understand that when you are employed by someone, you can't always. Not only might there not be another job suitable to your skillset (and being a dancer is a niche skillset), but these industries tend to be insular. Quitting a tour could piss off not only the artist, but also the choreographer, tour manager, booking agent, etc. Sure, maybe it gets so bad that you are willing to move in with your parents and work at McDonald's. But if simply asking for a workplace free of sexual harassment and coercion could result in you losing your job AND being blackballed in your industry, then no you CAN'T just "walk away."

There is no reason that entering the entertainment industry should mean that you subject yourself to abuse and harassment, I don't understand why so many people think that should be the case. Why? Why shouldn't an entertainer be entitled to a safe workplace?

At the highest levels, entertainers need to be a special brand of crazy to keep entertaining and keep things interesting. You lose that and they become boring/uninteresting. So the assumption is that you will deal with a little bit of crazy in the industry. It's not a factory floor concerned with OHSA protections. It's entertainment.

It's like going to a law firm and complaining about all of the combative, scheming personalities. Well...yes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The people (person?) on this thread saying "you can just walk away" doesn't understand that when you are employed by someone, you can't always. Not only might there not be another job suitable to your skillset (and being a dancer is a niche skillset), but these industries tend to be insular. Quitting a tour could piss off not only the artist, but also the choreographer, tour manager, booking agent, etc. Sure, maybe it gets so bad that you are willing to move in with your parents and work at McDonald's. But if simply asking for a workplace free of sexual harassment and coercion could result in you losing your job AND being blackballed in your industry, then no you CAN'T just "walk away."

There is no reason that entering the entertainment industry should mean that you subject yourself to abuse and harassment, I don't understand why so many people think that should be the case. Why? Why shouldn't an entertainer be entitled to a safe workplace?

At the highest levels, entertainers need to be a special brand of crazy to keep entertaining and keep things interesting. You lose that and they become boring/uninteresting. So the assumption is that you will deal with a little bit of crazy in the industry. It's not a factory floor concerned with OHSA protections. It's entertainment.

It's like going to a law firm and complaining about all of the combative, scheming personalities. Well...yes.

This is why I can both 1) sympathize with the dancers who had to work in that environment, bc I wouldn't want to, and also 2) wonder with some exasperation what the dancers expected when they joined Lizzo Inc, known for raunchy, overtly sexual (but positive!) lyrics. I think artistic endeavors like rock bands, etc. can't be easily compared to a corporate job. That's why when people say, how would you feel if this happened at your job, it hits as being a bit off. My job isn't producing/stylizing raunchy rap music, and if it were, I wouldn't be stunned that it also entailed raunchy, vulgar activities.

Being overtly sexual and body-positive are not the same things as pressuring an employee to do something sexual against their will, and fat-shaming an employee. These women are not suing Lizzo for being raunchy.

In professional sports, rookie athletes are hazed into doing embarrassing things and constantly critiqued about their bodies.

Some workplaces are just a little bit different.

Okay? I’m not pro-hazing, either.

I get that you really want it to be okay for Lizzo to pressure her employees into groping strippers’ breasts and eating bananas out of their vaginas, but it’s just not.

You're also not a pro athlete. Or an entertainer.

Stop comparing your workplace expectations to theirs.

DP but I actually AM an entertainer, and you are full of it. No entertainer wants to be abused or accepts abuse as part of the gig. That’s psychotic.

Abuse happens in the entertainment industry because there are more people who want these jobs than there are jobs to go around. This enables some people to be abusive because entertainment workers do fear that they could be too easily replaced, even when they have high level, refined skills. There are massive power imbalances.

This is one of many reasons why entertainment and sports continue to have very strong unions, even as other industries have seen declining union membership. We join unions specifically because the risk of exploitation is high. We don’t just accept that abuse is part of the gig.

There’s actually a lot less abuse in the industry now than there used to be, thanks to unions and people who have spoken out, sued, gotten media involved. And yet despite this huge decline in abuse/exploitation, the entertainment industry continues to function. It’s like abuse is NOT in fact necessary fir the industry but a problem we need to solve.

I am confident a lot of pro athletes feel similarly, actually. I bet hazing now is way better than it used to be for the same reasons.

Of course they may not want to, but many are willing to do the needful to have a successful career. These stories are also tame compared to other stuff that used to happen in the industry.

Did you miss this: "it's about the personality types the survive/thrive in the entertainment industry"? The very scarcity and competition that you mention drives the workplace dynamics.

Also, I said at the TOP of the entertainment industry. We're not talking about your weekend gigs at Hank's oyster bar, which I'm sure does not have quite the same workplace pressures

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The people (person?) on this thread saying "you can just walk away" doesn't understand that when you are employed by someone, you can't always. Not only might there not be another job suitable to your skillset (and being a dancer is a niche skillset), but these industries tend to be insular. Quitting a tour could piss off not only the artist, but also the choreographer, tour manager, booking agent, etc. Sure, maybe it gets so bad that you are willing to move in with your parents and work at McDonald's. But if simply asking for a workplace free of sexual harassment and coercion could result in you losing your job AND being blackballed in your industry, then no you CAN'T just "walk away."

There is no reason that entering the entertainment industry should mean that you subject yourself to abuse and harassment, I don't understand why so many people think that should be the case. Why? Why shouldn't an entertainer be entitled to a safe workplace?

At the highest levels, entertainers need to be a special brand of crazy to keep entertaining and keep things interesting. You lose that and they become boring/uninteresting. So the assumption is that you will deal with a little bit of crazy in the industry. It's not a factory floor concerned with OHSA protections. It's entertainment.

It's like going to a law firm and complaining about all of the combative, scheming personalities. Well...yes.

This is why I can both 1) sympathize with the dancers who had to work in that environment, bc I wouldn't want to, and also 2) wonder with some exasperation what the dancers expected when they joined Lizzo Inc, known for raunchy, overtly sexual (but positive!) lyrics. I think artistic endeavors like rock bands, etc. can't be easily compared to a corporate job. That's why when people say, how would you feel if this happened at your job, it hits as being a bit off. My job isn't producing/stylizing raunchy rap music, and if it were, I wouldn't be stunned that it also entailed raunchy, vulgar activities.

Being overtly sexual and body-positive are not the same things as pressuring an employee to do something sexual against their will, and fat-shaming an employee. These women are not suing Lizzo for being raunchy.

In professional sports, rookie athletes are hazed into doing embarrassing things and constantly critiqued about their bodies.

Some workplaces are just a little bit different.

Okay? I’m not pro-hazing, either.

I get that you really want it to be okay for Lizzo to pressure her employees into groping strippers’ breasts and eating bananas out of their vaginas, but it’s just not.

You're also not a pro athlete. Or an entertainer.

Stop comparing your workplace expectations to theirs.

Lol this is such a load of horseshit. Gtfo with your sexual harassment apologist nonsense

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The people (person?) on this thread saying "you can just walk away" doesn't understand that when you are employed by someone, you can't always. Not only might there not be another job suitable to your skillset (and being a dancer is a niche skillset), but these industries tend to be insular. Quitting a tour could piss off not only the artist, but also the choreographer, tour manager, booking agent, etc. Sure, maybe it gets so bad that you are willing to move in with your parents and work at McDonald's. But if simply asking for a workplace free of sexual harassment and coercion could result in you losing your job AND being blackballed in your industry, then no you CAN'T just "walk away."

There is no reason that entering the entertainment industry should mean that you subject yourself to abuse and harassment, I don't understand why so many people think that should be the case. Why? Why shouldn't an entertainer be entitled to a safe workplace?

At the highest levels, entertainers need to be a special brand of crazy to keep entertaining and keep things interesting. You lose that and they become boring/uninteresting. So the assumption is that you will deal with a little bit of crazy in the industry. It's not a factory floor concerned with OHSA protections. It's entertainment.

It's like going to a law firm and complaining about all of the combative, scheming personalities. Well...yes.

This is why I can both 1) sympathize with the dancers who had to work in that environment, bc I wouldn't want to, and also 2) wonder with some exasperation what the dancers expected when they joined Lizzo Inc, known for raunchy, overtly sexual (but positive!) lyrics. I think artistic endeavors like rock bands, etc. can't be easily compared to a corporate job. That's why when people say, how would you feel if this happened at your job, it hits as being a bit off. My job isn't producing/stylizing raunchy rap music, and if it were, I wouldn't be stunned that it also entailed raunchy, vulgar activities.

Being overtly sexual and body-positive are not the same things as pressuring an employee to do something sexual against their will, and fat-shaming an employee. These women are not suing Lizzo for being raunchy.

In professional sports, rookie athletes are hazed into doing embarrassing things and constantly critiqued about their bodies.

Some workplaces are just a little bit different.

Okay? I’m not pro-hazing, either.

I get that you really want it to be okay for Lizzo to pressure her employees into groping strippers’ breasts and eating bananas out of their vaginas, but it’s just not.

You're also not a pro athlete. Or an entertainer.

Stop comparing your workplace expectations to theirs.

DP but I actually AM an entertainer, and you are full of it. No entertainer wants to be abused or accepts abuse as part of the gig. That’s psychotic.

Abuse happens in the entertainment industry because there are more people who want these jobs than there are jobs to go around. This enables some people to be abusive because entertainment workers do fear that they could be too easily replaced, even when they have high level, refined skills. There are massive power imbalances.

This is one of many reasons why entertainment and sports continue to have very strong unions, even as other industries have seen declining union membership. We join unions specifically because the risk of exploitation is high. We don’t just accept that abuse is part of the gig.

There’s actually a lot less abuse in the industry now than there used to be, thanks to unions and people who have spoken out, sued, gotten media involved. And yet despite this huge decline in abuse/exploitation, the entertainment industry continues to function. It’s like abuse is NOT in fact necessary fir the industry but a problem we need to solve.

I am confident a lot of pro athletes feel similarly, actually. I bet hazing now is way better than it used to be for the same reasons.

Of course they may not want to, but many are willing to do the needful to have a successful career. These stories are also tame compared to other stuff that used to happen in the industry.

Did you miss this: "it's about the personality types the survive/thrive in the entertainment industry"? The very scarcity and competition that you mention drives the workplace dynamics.

Also, I said at the TOP of the entertainment industry. We're not talking about your weekend gigs at Hank's oyster bar, which I'm sure does not have quite the same workplace pressures

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The people (person?) on this thread saying "you can just walk away" doesn't understand that when you are employed by someone, you can't always. Not only might there not be another job suitable to your skillset (and being a dancer is a niche skillset), but these industries tend to be insular. Quitting a tour could piss off not only the artist, but also the choreographer, tour manager, booking agent, etc. Sure, maybe it gets so bad that you are willing to move in with your parents and work at McDonald's. But if simply asking for a workplace free of sexual harassment and coercion could result in you losing your job AND being blackballed in your industry, then no you CAN'T just "walk away."

There is no reason that entering the entertainment industry should mean that you subject yourself to abuse and harassment, I don't understand why so many people think that should be the case. Why? Why shouldn't an entertainer be entitled to a safe workplace?

At the highest levels, entertainers need to be a special brand of crazy to keep entertaining and keep things interesting. You lose that and they become boring/uninteresting. So the assumption is that you will deal with a little bit of crazy in the industry. It's not a factory floor concerned with OHSA protections. It's entertainment.

It's like going to a law firm and complaining about all of the combative, scheming personalities. Well...yes.

This is why I can both 1) sympathize with the dancers who had to work in that environment, bc I wouldn't want to, and also 2) wonder with some exasperation what the dancers expected when they joined Lizzo Inc, known for raunchy, overtly sexual (but positive!) lyrics. I think artistic endeavors like rock bands, etc. can't be easily compared to a corporate job. That's why when people say, how would you feel if this happened at your job, it hits as being a bit off. My job isn't producing/stylizing raunchy rap music, and if it were, I wouldn't be stunned that it also entailed raunchy, vulgar activities.

Being overtly sexual and body-positive are not the same things as pressuring an employee to do something sexual against their will, and fat-shaming an employee. These women are not suing Lizzo for being raunchy.

In professional sports, rookie athletes are hazed into doing embarrassing things and constantly critiqued about their bodies.

Some workplaces are just a little bit different.

Okay? I’m not pro-hazing, either.

I get that you really want it to be okay for Lizzo to pressure her employees into groping strippers’ breasts and eating bananas out of their vaginas, but it’s just not.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The people (person?) on this thread saying "you can just walk away" doesn't understand that when you are employed by someone, you can't always. Not only might there not be another job suitable to your skillset (and being a dancer is a niche skillset), but these industries tend to be insular. Quitting a tour could piss off not only the artist, but also the choreographer, tour manager, booking agent, etc. Sure, maybe it gets so bad that you are willing to move in with your parents and work at McDonald's. But if simply asking for a workplace free of sexual harassment and coercion could result in you losing your job AND being blackballed in your industry, then no you CAN'T just "walk away."

There is no reason that entering the entertainment industry should mean that you subject yourself to abuse and harassment, I don't understand why so many people think that should be the case. Why? Why shouldn't an entertainer be entitled to a safe workplace?

At the highest levels, entertainers need to be a special brand of crazy to keep entertaining and keep things interesting. You lose that and they become boring/uninteresting. So the assumption is that you will deal with a little bit of crazy in the industry. It's not a factory floor concerned with OHSA protections. It's entertainment.

It's like going to a law firm and complaining about all of the combative, scheming personalities. Well...yes.

This is why I can both 1) sympathize with the dancers who had to work in that environment, bc I wouldn't want to, and also 2) wonder with some exasperation what the dancers expected when they joined Lizzo Inc, known for raunchy, overtly sexual (but positive!) lyrics. I think artistic endeavors like rock bands, etc. can't be easily compared to a corporate job. That's why when people say, how would you feel if this happened at your job, it hits as being a bit off. My job isn't producing/stylizing raunchy rap music, and if it were, I wouldn't be stunned that it also entailed raunchy, vulgar activities.

Being overtly sexual and body-positive are not the same things as pressuring an employee to do something sexual against their will, and fat-shaming an employee. These women are not suing Lizzo for being raunchy.

In professional sports, rookie athletes are hazed into doing embarrassing things and constantly critiqued about their bodies.

Some workplaces are just a little bit different.

Okay? I’m not pro-hazing, either.

I get that you really want it to be okay for Lizzo to pressure her employees into groping strippers’ breasts and eating bananas out of their vaginas, but it’s just not.

You're also not a pro athlete. Or an entertainer.

Stop comparing your workplace expectations to theirs.

DP but I actually AM an entertainer, and you are full of it. No entertainer wants to be abused or accepts abuse as part of the gig. That’s psychotic.

Abuse happens in the entertainment industry because there are more people who want these jobs than there are jobs to go around. This enables some people to be abusive because entertainment workers do fear that they could be too easily replaced, even when they have high level, refined skills. There are massive power imbalances.

This is one of many reasons why entertainment and sports continue to have very strong unions, even as other industries have seen declining union membership. We join unions specifically because the risk of exploitation is high. We don’t just accept that abuse is part of the gig.

There’s actually a lot less abuse in the industry now than there used to be, thanks to unions and people who have spoken out, sued, gotten media involved. And yet despite this huge decline in abuse/exploitation, the entertainment industry continues to function. It’s like abuse is NOT in fact necessary fir the industry but a problem we need to solve.

I am confident a lot of pro athletes feel similarly, actually. I bet hazing now is way better than it used to be for the same reasons.