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Anonymous wrote:I had though at some point folks said that the score needed to get into Algebra 1 was 1046. And that pre algebra was in the 900s. MAYBE 940 but I may have made that up.

To get into pre Algebra 7 the you need a 475 on the SOL and a 785 on MI. So it seems weird to me that you need a lower score to get into that when it comes 7/8 grade math.

Where did you get the numbers for Algebra 7, they seem low

DP. Its detailed on the letter to rising 7th grade parents. FWIW there is definitely teacher input. My DD scored very low on the MI which was weird b/c she's an A student. The teacher worked with her to see what was wrong and looks like it had to do with something that one of new 5th grade teachers at the elementary school didn't teach last year (she said she had multiple kids with the same issue and same 5th grade teacher). But then DD score very high on the Math SOL. She was put in Pre-Alg 7.

My kid is the opposite. High MI, just missed the cut off for SOL, and recommended for math 7. Kid goofs off in class so that’s probably why. Debating whether we should push it or not…

I wouldn’t put a kid who goofs off in an accelerated class like this. It’s not fair to them or the other kids.

+1 and sounds like mom is already making excuses for him. (He rushed the SOL…)

Excuses? No, I’m explaining why I think the teacher input factored in - because the kid goofs off and doesn’t take it seriously. Even though kid clearly knows the content.

And pre-alg for 7th really is not all that accelerated. I have older kids who’ve taken more accelerated paths. Part of why kid goofed off is that math 6 is boring AF.

Can’t speak to “Math 6 is boring AF”, since, you know, I’m an adult and not actually in the room.

I know many kids who’ve done math 6 & kids who did pre-alg for 6th (math 6/7/8). Consensus is that math 6 is boring AF. Have you seen the syllabus? Very, very little new material after 5th.

I know kids, too. It’s not like a twelve-year-old to say math is boring! Your kid didn’t get in- because he didn't get in. I think you should trust the process and let him solidify his math skills. He’ll be ok.

Parent of a kid who just finished middle school here. No, do not blindly “trust the process” if you think your kid belongs in the higher math class. They have raised the cutoff scores in recent years in an effort to have fewer kids on the advanced track, for whatever reason. We had to push back to get our kid into the advanced class. He just finished geometry, and had no trouble earning all As all 3 years of MS math. Math ended up his favorite subject, too.

Recent education theories argue that pushing kids into an advance track too early causes them to grow too dislike math. Not saying it's right or wrong but there is an anti acceleration movement out there.

https://robertkaplinsky.com/the-case-against-acceleration/

https://www.nea.org/advocating-for-change/new-from-nea/how-much-math-too-much

wow. I hope APS isn't being guided by her recommendations.

They are, hence the excessively high standard for acceleration

After seeing how many kids end up struggling or miserable, high standards for 2x acceleration are a good thing.

I'm not sure the number who are struggling or miserable is so high that it merits the vastly raised standards for acceleration, but if those numbers really are that high, they should have just reduced the intensity of the advanced track. I don't think it's great to give kids with really high scores on the CoGat, SOL, and MI a curriculum with the same content and pacing as a kid who still struggles with times tables and place value.

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Anonymous wrote:Hmm I wasn't going to email to ask for placement but seems like my kid needs to take Algebra intensified or geometry to have a shot at TJHSST, which is his dream. No idea if he can even get in given he didn't get placed initially but also don't want to reduce his chances already in 6th. Again I know it's a long shot school, he is just so obsessed with science

FWIW, Swanson got 4 TJHSST spots this year, and only 1 of them went to a kid who had done the pre-alg/alg 1 intensified/geometry 1 intensified track. The other 3 spots went to kids who did Math 6/pre-alg/alg 1 intensified. It used to be that you had to take geometry in 8th grade to have a shot at the TJHSST spots, but that isn't true now that TJHSST changed the admissions criteria.

How are alg 1 intensified and geo intensified different from alg 1 and geo?

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Anonymous wrote:I had though at some point folks said that the score needed to get into Algebra 1 was 1046. And that pre algebra was in the 900s. MAYBE 940 but I may have made that up.

To get into pre Algebra 7 the you need a 475 on the SOL and a 785 on MI. So it seems weird to me that you need a lower score to get into that when it comes 7/8 grade math.

Where did you get the numbers for Algebra 7, they seem low

DP. Its detailed on the letter to rising 7th grade parents. FWIW there is definitely teacher input. My DD scored very low on the MI which was weird b/c she's an A student. The teacher worked with her to see what was wrong and looks like it had to do with something that one of new 5th grade teachers at the elementary school didn't teach last year (she said she had multiple kids with the same issue and same 5th grade teacher). But then DD score very high on the Math SOL. She was put in Pre-Alg 7.

My kid is the opposite. High MI, just missed the cut off for SOL, and recommended for math 7. Kid goofs off in class so that’s probably why. Debating whether we should push it or not…

I wouldn’t put a kid who goofs off in an accelerated class like this. It’s not fair to them or the other kids.

+1 and sounds like mom is already making excuses for him. (He rushed the SOL…)

Excuses? No, I’m explaining why I think the teacher input factored in - because the kid goofs off and doesn’t take it seriously. Even though kid clearly knows the content.

And pre-alg for 7th really is not all that accelerated. I have older kids who’ve taken more accelerated paths. Part of why kid goofed off is that math 6 is boring AF.

Can’t speak to “Math 6 is boring AF”, since, you know, I’m an adult and not actually in the room.

I know many kids who’ve done math 6 & kids who did pre-alg for 6th (math 6/7/8). Consensus is that math 6 is boring AF. Have you seen the syllabus? Very, very little new material after 5th.

I know kids, too. It’s not like a twelve-year-old to say math is boring! Your kid didn’t get in- because he didn't get in. I think you should trust the process and let him solidify his math skills. He’ll be ok.

Parent of a kid who just finished middle school here. No, do not blindly “trust the process” if you think your kid belongs in the higher math class. They have raised the cutoff scores in recent years in an effort to have fewer kids on the advanced track, for whatever reason. We had to push back to get our kid into the advanced class. He just finished geometry, and had no trouble earning all As all 3 years of MS math. Math ended up his favorite subject, too.

Recent education theories argue that pushing kids into an advance track too early causes them to grow too dislike math. Not saying it's right or wrong but there is an anti acceleration movement out there.

https://robertkaplinsky.com/the-case-against-acceleration/

https://www.nea.org/advocating-for-change/new-from-nea/how-much-math-too-much

wow. I hope APS isn't being guided by her recommendations.

They are, hence the excessively high standard for acceleration

After seeing how many kids end up struggling or miserable, high standards for 2x acceleration are a good thing.

Anonymous wrote:For PPs mentioning the CoGat scores, is it the one they took in the 2nd or 3rd grade (I don’t remember which grade it was)?

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Anonymous wrote:Just FYI I emailed the math person from our middle school and detailed exactly why I thought my son should be in pre-algebra for 6th instead of math 6, and she agreed with my reasoning and he was put in pre-algebra for 6th graders. So changes are possible.

(Please don't come at me for this, we had good reasons and from an early age he seemed destined for STEM)

How wild! Our son was disappointed about his placement, so we did the same. The math person indicated that there is nothing they can do, and that the placement is what it is. And if he's still interested in being placed in Pre-Algebra, then the central APS Math Office is going to require him take a readiness test (on the day before school starts, after a summer of, well, being a kid having fun during the summer).

All of this seems extraordinary to me, particularly as at no point has anyone been measuring their capacity to learn or interest level, but rather what they were taught in the classroom.

Anyway, it makes sense to me that they'd want to set and enforce standards, but this feels fairly arbitrary.

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Anonymous wrote:I had though at some point folks said that the score needed to get into Algebra 1 was 1046. And that pre algebra was in the 900s. MAYBE 940 but I may have made that up.

To get into pre Algebra 7 the you need a 475 on the SOL and a 785 on MI. So it seems weird to me that you need a lower score to get into that when it comes 7/8 grade math.

Where did you get the numbers for Algebra 7, they seem low

DP. Its detailed on the letter to rising 7th grade parents. FWIW there is definitely teacher input. My DD scored very low on the MI which was weird b/c she's an A student. The teacher worked with her to see what was wrong and looks like it had to do with something that one of new 5th grade teachers at the elementary school didn't teach last year (she said she had multiple kids with the same issue and same 5th grade teacher). But then DD score very high on the Math SOL. She was put in Pre-Alg 7.

My kid is the opposite. High MI, just missed the cut off for SOL, and recommended for math 7. Kid goofs off in class so that’s probably why. Debating whether we should push it or not…

I wouldn’t put a kid who goofs off in an accelerated class like this. It’s not fair to them or the other kids.

+1 and sounds like mom is already making excuses for him. (He rushed the SOL…)

Excuses? No, I’m explaining why I think the teacher input factored in - because the kid goofs off and doesn’t take it seriously. Even though kid clearly knows the content.

And pre-alg for 7th really is not all that accelerated. I have older kids who’ve taken more accelerated paths. Part of why kid goofed off is that math 6 is boring AF.

Can’t speak to “Math 6 is boring AF”, since, you know, I’m an adult and not actually in the room.

I know many kids who’ve done math 6 & kids who did pre-alg for 6th (math 6/7/8). Consensus is that math 6 is boring AF. Have you seen the syllabus? Very, very little new material after 5th.

I know kids, too. It’s not like a twelve-year-old to say math is boring! Your kid didn’t get in- because he didn't get in. I think you should trust the process and let him solidify his math skills. He’ll be ok.

Parent of a kid who just finished middle school here. No, do not blindly “trust the process” if you think your kid belongs in the higher math class. They have raised the cutoff scores in recent years in an effort to have fewer kids on the advanced track, for whatever reason. We had to push back to get our kid into the advanced class. He just finished geometry, and had no trouble earning all As all 3 years of MS math. Math ended up his favorite subject, too.

Recent education theories argue that pushing kids into an advance track too early causes them to grow too dislike math. Not saying it's right or wrong but there is an anti acceleration movement out there.

https://robertkaplinsky.com/the-case-against-acceleration/

https://www.nea.org/advocating-for-change/new-from-nea/how-much-math-too-much

wow. I hope APS isn't being guided by her recommendations.

They are, hence the excessively high standard for acceleration

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just FYI I emailed the math person from our middle school and detailed exactly why I thought my son should be in pre-algebra for 6th instead of math 6, and she agreed with my reasoning and he was put in pre-algebra for 6th graders. So changes are possible.

(Please don't come at me for this, we had good reasons and from an early age he seemed destined for STEM)

How wild! Our son was disappointed about his placement, so we did the same. The math person indicated that there is nothing they can do, and that the placement is what it is. And if he's still interested in being placed in Pre-Algebra, then the central APS Math Office is going to require him take a readiness test (on the day before school starts, after a summer of, well, being a kid having fun during the summer).

All of this seems extraordinary to me, particularly as at no point has anyone been measuring their capacity to learn or interest level, but rather what they were taught in the classroom.

Anyway, it makes sense to me that they'd want to set and enforce standards, but this feels fairly arbitrary.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

All of this seems extraordinary to me, particularly as at no point has anyone been measuring their capacity to learn or interest level, but rather what they were taught in the classroom.

PP - just to clarify, this was not intended to be a dig at the teachers (which, in re-reading, it is absolutely written that way). I meant more that the classroom instruction and performance seemed at least in part influenced by behavior in the rest of the classroom, interest level of their peers in the small group math activities, etc.

I have to imagine that it's very hard to control for those things across classrooms, so setting the thresholds based on acquired knowledge, and not also having a way to consider ability, seems like a disservice to the students.