Something I realized after I had kids was that both my parents viewed my siblings and I as competition, and that much of their behavior stemmed from jealousy. Especially when we were teenagers, and therefore more like adults. Instead of being proud or encouraging when we got good grades or excelled at something, they’d often criticize or minimize it, because they found it threatening. They were both very insecure and hated the idea that any of us kids would surpass them.

They also tried (and in some cases succeeded) in creating codependent relationships with us. My mom especially loved it when one of us failed because they could swoop in and “rescue”, which would also involve a lot of condescension from both of them. It was a relief for them to re-establish themselves as dominant and superior.

I moved faaaaaaaar away to get away from that dynamic, but I didn’t really know what it was until I had a child and understood, by contrast, how much my parents’ behavior was driven by competition and jealousy instead of love, support, and guidance.

Anonymous wrote:I had an absurdly terrible mother, and it took me a long time to figure it out, not because I'm stupid but because she was always talking about how wonderful her own self was, and I believed her, in spite of the evidence. In public she put on a good show--that was convincing to me. Kids don't want to believe that their mom is bad. That's not good for kids' sense of security.

Anyway: same boat as OP with a difficult (actually BPD/NPD mother) and a checked-out father.

When I had my child, I had a total mental health crisis when he turned 3 because that was the age I was when she started beating me and being controlling to an extreme degree. As other posters have noted, often mentally ill parents don't accept that the kids are separate beings that they need to guide/protect. Instead they think the kid is property that they can control and use for their own weird goals, and take out their anger upon. It's hard to build up sense of self when your parents don't respect you as a being.

Well, as an adult I've been diagnosed with ADHD. I've read this can be genetic, but could also be the result of changes in the brain due to abuse. I've read that ADHD is difficult to distinguish from CPTSD. Well, guess what. I also got a CPTSD diagnosis as well. There's not really any meds for that. It's a matter of working really hard to "tone your vagus nerve" and spending lots of money on strange therapies like EMDR and stuff like that. Meanwhile you feel like an imposter because you were not a soldier. You merely were repeatedly abused when you were a defenseless child, causing brain damage that you didn't deserve and are trying hard to ameliorate.

The emotional/verbal abuse was honestly worse than the physical abuse in my case, but that isn't always so. A BPD/NPD will F with your head. My siblings and I actually grew up successful, we all have plenty of money and nice things in our lives. We had advantages and intelligence and are white. But we all deal, to this day, with mental and health challenges. Altogether, we have depression, anxiety, OCD, ADHD, CPTSD, eating disorders and maybe other stuff that my siblings haven't told me about.

Don't hit kids!! Also, don't procreate with a personality-disordered person, please.

I experienced something similar but without physical abuse. My mom treated me as if I were her property. She did not have a career to many interests and she placed an extreme focus on me. She was threatened when I wanted to do anything she disagreed with or didn’t share a belief on something. She was especially threatened by any friends I made and she would always come up with a reason as to why I couldn’t be friends with them. Typical teenage behavior was met with hysterics. I did struggle with a sense of self and had a tough time in my 20s. Not to mention self esteem since my mom had always treated me like I was worthless and doing everything wrong. I remember a weight lifting when I went off to college and she left me in my freshman dorm.

I also struggled with my first child was in preschool. All of a sudden it all hit me. She was a terrible parent. She didn’t encourage me and love me. She tried to control me and own me.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I relate. My mother looked down on people with mental health issues probably because she herself struggled with anger, depression and anxiety. She saw us as objects to meet her needs. I had to get good grades and go to good schools to make her look good. Her rage made her quite verbally abusive which is why when I am under a lot of stress or go through a rough patch with parenting I get help. I will not be abusive toward my children. I will be a cycle-breaker.

Also, there was no protection. We had tremendous freedom, but any issues that arose were our fault. My mother would leave me and my siblings anyone, any age and if the person hit us or said inappropriate things it was out fault. It wasn't until someone witnessed a sitter being physically abusive with me in public, that my mother fired her and I had already brought the issue to her attention, but she blamed me. She only fired the sitter so a stranger would not think she was a bad parent if she witnessed me with the sitter again.

My mother had more than enough money to get herself help and she endless free time for self care. Yes, my grandma was crazy too, but because mom was the golden child she saw nothing wrong with abusive parenting. She blamed her siblings for their abuse.

I just posted, but wanted to add I think you will get different responses from people who faced abuse then from people raised in stable households. Sadly I see from the responses a lot of people blessed with more emotionally safe circumstances don't seem to have empathy for those who grew up without that.

+1,000,000

The older I get (52 now) the more I realize that the better off people are the less they have compassion for others with less fortunate lives - this is true of financial prosperity and also interpersonal prosperity.

Of course there are exceptions to the rule, but I really do feel the majority of people with charmed lives have little compassion for those of us who have suffered from the start by losing the parent lottery, or those of us who have struggled and continue to struggle to make a good living. Those misfortunes don’t reflect on character but charmed life people often feel they are somehow better people and that accounts for their blessings.

It's true. The blessed folks think they were chosen for those blessings, that someone decided they deserved them. Which means, of course, that those of us withy screwed up, dysfunctional families simply were not good enough humans to deserve a happy, healthy family.

I hear what you are saying but I have yet to meet a UMC family without some major issues. Not everyone shares their misfortunes. The one family I thought had a charmed life has both husband and wife dealing with serious health problems that are not obvious unless you spend a lot of time with them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I relate. My mother looked down on people with mental health issues probably because she herself struggled with anger, depression and anxiety. She saw us as objects to meet her needs. I had to get good grades and go to good schools to make her look good. Her rage made her quite verbally abusive which is why when I am under a lot of stress or go through a rough patch with parenting I get help. I will not be abusive toward my children. I will be a cycle-breaker.

Also, there was no protection. We had tremendous freedom, but any issues that arose were our fault. My mother would leave me and my siblings anyone, any age and if the person hit us or said inappropriate things it was out fault. It wasn't until someone witnessed a sitter being physically abusive with me in public, that my mother fired her and I had already brought the issue to her attention, but she blamed me. She only fired the sitter so a stranger would not think she was a bad parent if she witnessed me with the sitter again.

My mother had more than enough money to get herself help and she endless free time for self care. Yes, my grandma was crazy too, but because mom was the golden child she saw nothing wrong with abusive parenting. She blamed her siblings for their abuse.

I just posted, but wanted to add I think you will get different responses from people who faced abuse then from people raised in stable households. Sadly I see from the responses a lot of people blessed with more emotionally safe circumstances don't seem to have empathy for those who grew up without that.

+1,000,000

The older I get (52 now) the more I realize that the better off people are the less they have compassion for others with less fortunate lives - this is true of financial prosperity and also interpersonal prosperity.

Of course there are exceptions to the rule, but I really do feel the majority of people with charmed lives have little compassion for those of us who have suffered from the start by losing the parent lottery, or those of us who have struggled and continue to struggle to make a good living. Those misfortunes don’t reflect on character but charmed life people often feel they are somehow better people and that accounts for their blessings.

It's true. The blessed folks think they were chosen for those blessings, that someone decided they deserved them. Which means, of course, that those of us withy screwed up, dysfunctional families simply were not good enough humans to deserve a happy, healthy family.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I relate. My mother looked down on people with mental health issues probably because she herself struggled with anger, depression and anxiety. She saw us as objects to meet her needs. I had to get good grades and go to good schools to make her look good. Her rage made her quite verbally abusive which is why when I am under a lot of stress or go through a rough patch with parenting I get help. I will not be abusive toward my children. I will be a cycle-breaker.

Also, there was no protection. We had tremendous freedom, but any issues that arose were our fault. My mother would leave me and my siblings anyone, any age and if the person hit us or said inappropriate things it was out fault. It wasn't until someone witnessed a sitter being physically abusive with me in public, that my mother fired her and I had already brought the issue to her attention, but she blamed me. She only fired the sitter so a stranger would not think she was a bad parent if she witnessed me with the sitter again.

My mother had more than enough money to get herself help and she endless free time for self care. Yes, my grandma was crazy too, but because mom was the golden child she saw nothing wrong with abusive parenting. She blamed her siblings for their abuse.

I just posted, but wanted to add I think you will get different responses from people who faced abuse then from people raised in stable households. Sadly I see from the responses a lot of people blessed with more emotionally safe circumstances don't seem to have empathy for those who grew up without that.

+1,000,000

The older I get (52 now) the more I realize that the better off people are the less they have compassion for others with less fortunate lives - this is true of financial prosperity and also interpersonal prosperity.

Of course there are exceptions to the rule, but I really do feel the majority of people with charmed lives have little compassion for those of us who have suffered from the start by losing the parent lottery, or those of us who have struggled and continue to struggle to make a good living. Those misfortunes don’t reflect on character but charmed life people often feel they are somehow better people and that accounts for their blessings.

I think those misfortunes often give people grit and determination with some greater street smarts/ maturity, judging by those I've met who have dysfunctional family written all over them

No I see my parents in a different light once I became a mom. I saw how frustrated my mom was with my dad not doing chores, whereas before I saw her as a nag. I also see how hard it is to raise children. There's all these Gen Z tiktoks talking about all the things their parents said or did... don't they realize how much work it is to have kids?! They're going on and on about their trauma, but I'd like to see them do it better.

I really think my parents did an incredible job and I hope I am just as successful.

Anonymous wrote:Op—

Look up the “drama triangle” and see if it applies to your situation. Your mom likes to triangulate.

Is she a narcissist? Your sister may be the “golden child” while you are not.

To clarify, look up NPD and BPD and see if it sounds like your mom. For the love of God, don’t tell your mom she has the traits, if she does. But can a read and learn what to do. A lot of us are dealing with parents like this.

Good luck!

Op—

Look up the “drama triangle” and see if it applies to your situation. Your mom likes to triangulate.

Is she a narcissist? Your sister may be the “golden child” while you are not.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I relate. My mother looked down on people with mental health issues probably because she herself struggled with anger, depression and anxiety. She saw us as objects to meet her needs. I had to get good grades and go to good schools to make her look good. Her rage made her quite verbally abusive which is why when I am under a lot of stress or go through a rough patch with parenting I get help. I will not be abusive toward my children. I will be a cycle-breaker.

Also, there was no protection. We had tremendous freedom, but any issues that arose were our fault. My mother would leave me and my siblings anyone, any age and if the person hit us or said inappropriate things it was out fault. It wasn't until someone witnessed a sitter being physically abusive with me in public, that my mother fired her and I had already brought the issue to her attention, but she blamed me. She only fired the sitter so a stranger would not think she was a bad parent if she witnessed me with the sitter again.

My mother had more than enough money to get herself help and she endless free time for self care. Yes, my grandma was crazy too, but because mom was the golden child she saw nothing wrong with abusive parenting. She blamed her siblings for their abuse.

I just posted, but wanted to add I think you will get different responses from people who faced abuse then from people raised in stable households. Sadly I see from the responses a lot of people blessed with more emotionally safe circumstances don't seem to have empathy for those who grew up without that.

+1,000,000

The older I get (52 now) the more I realize that the better off people are the less they have compassion for others with less fortunate lives - this is true of financial prosperity and also interpersonal prosperity.

Of course there are exceptions to the rule, but I really do feel the majority of people with charmed lives have little compassion for those of us who have suffered from the start by losing the parent lottery, or those of us who have struggled and continue to struggle to make a good living. Those misfortunes don’t reflect on character but charmed life people often feel they are somehow better people and that accounts for their blessings.

I had an absurdly terrible mother, and it took me a long time to figure it out, not because I'm stupid but because she was always talking about how wonderful her own self was, and I believed her, in spite of the evidence. In public she put on a good show--that was convincing to me. Kids don't want to believe that their mom is bad. That's not good for kids' sense of security.

Anyway: same boat as OP with a difficult (actually BPD/NPD mother) and a checked-out father.

When I had my child, I had a total mental health crisis when he turned 3 because that was the age I was when she started beating me and being controlling to an extreme degree. As other posters have noted, often mentally ill parents don't accept that the kids are separate beings that they need to guide/protect. Instead they think the kid is property that they can control and use for their own weird goals, and take out their anger upon. It's hard to build up sense of self when your parents don't respect you as a being.

Well, as an adult I've been diagnosed with ADHD. I've read this can be genetic, but could also be the result of changes in the brain due to abuse. I've read that ADHD is difficult to distinguish from CPTSD. Well, guess what. I also got a CPTSD diagnosis as well. There's not really any meds for that. It's a matter of working really hard to "tone your vagus nerve" and spending lots of money on strange therapies like EMDR and stuff like that. Meanwhile you feel like an imposter because you were not a soldier. You merely were repeatedly abused when you were a defenseless child, causing brain damage that you didn't deserve and are trying hard to ameliorate.

The emotional/verbal abuse was honestly worse than the physical abuse in my case, but that isn't always so. A BPD/NPD will F with your head. My siblings and I actually grew up successful, we all have plenty of money and nice things in our lives. We had advantages and intelligence and are white. But we all deal, to this day, with mental and health challenges. Altogether, we have depression, anxiety, OCD, ADHD, CPTSD, eating disorders and maybe other stuff that my siblings haven't told me about.

Don't hit kids!! Also, don't procreate with a personality-disordered person, please.

I realized how crappy my mother was by the time I was 5 or 6, just based on limited interactions with the parents of other kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I relate. My mother looked down on people with mental health issues probably because she herself struggled with anger, depression and anxiety. She saw us as objects to meet her needs. I had to get good grades and go to good schools to make her look good. Her rage made her quite verbally abusive which is why when I am under a lot of stress or go through a rough patch with parenting I get help. I will not be abusive toward my children. I will be a cycle-breaker.

Also, there was no protection. We had tremendous freedom, but any issues that arose were our fault. My mother would leave me and my siblings anyone, any age and if the person hit us or said inappropriate things it was out fault. It wasn't until someone witnessed a sitter being physically abusive with me in public, that my mother fired her and I had already brought the issue to her attention, but she blamed me. She only fired the sitter so a stranger would not think she was a bad parent if she witnessed me with the sitter again.

My mother had more than enough money to get herself help and she endless free time for self care. Yes, my grandma was crazy too, but because mom was the golden child she saw nothing wrong with abusive parenting. She blamed her siblings for their abuse.

I just posted, but wanted to add I think you will get different responses from people who faced abuse then from people raised in stable households. Sadly I see from the responses a lot of people blessed with more emotionally safe circumstances don't seem to have empathy for those who grew up without that.

OP said she grew up in a stable household being emotionally abused from her mother and having an unavailable father so she needs more responses from that group.

A home with an emotionally abusive mother and an unavailable father is not "stable." I get OP used that term, but then she's describing experiences consistent with abuse and neglect. A home with abuse and neglect isn't stable.

It's really common for people who grew up in financially stable homes, middle class or better, to struggle with the idea that their experience was abusive. Even in cases with physical and sexual abuse, it is hard -- I was physically abused as a child and it took me years to even categorize it as abuse (my family justified it as corporal punishment and said it was normal "at the time" but neither were true). Also, part of the emotional abuse is often using the fact that the parents are meeting the child's basic needs (fed, clothed, housed, in school, access to doctors -- the bare minimum required by the law) as evidence that the child can't complain about emotional abuse or neglect. "Look at all I've done for you" is a refrain I heard a lot growing up.

The people piping up that parenthood has made them understand and more sympathetic to their parents, who came from warm and loving homes that may have had issues, don't actually help OP. Because they simply contribute to the gaslighting OP has received since she was a child, that she has nothing to complain about. It is not intentional, but arguing that someone who was ignored by their father and emotionally abused by their mother for their entire childhood was from a normal, stable home is not helpful.

+1,000,000 What an insightful post. Not OP, but my mother did this often. I actually have a close friend who grew up on welfare and her mother was loving, encouraging and kind. My parents provided more than basic needs-paid for college, etc and this was help up by mom constantly. She felt all her tantrums, insults and tirades were excused because we had food, shelter, etc. Every time she wrote a tuition check (using dad's money) it was another opportunity to tell me off and demand constant adulation (and believe me I thanked them plenty. I wanted to go to state school, but she demanded ivy, yet needed me to know just how much she was paying and expected daily gratitude). I felt ashamed when I finally went to therapy and assumed the therapist would call me ungrateful. I struggled when she brought up the definition of emotional and verbal abuse because in my mind someone who paid full tuition was immediately not considered abusive in any way.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - I don't think I am explaining myself well.

The point of my post is that despite turning out "okay" I wish I had a deeper/warmer emotional connection with my mother. She was super strict/religious and overreacted about everything when I was growing up so I quickly felt from a very young age that I couldn't really share anything with her and my ticket out was to do well in school. And it's still true - whenever I am with her she immediately reverts back to treating me like a teenager and still takes my younger sister's side in every conflict so my instinct is to just both of them at arms length.

This is all coming to a head now since they are crashing my vacation next week. Again not a real question, just complaining.

You explained yourself fine. You just triggered a bunch of people who feel defensive about their own parenting or who are still processing what they dealt with as kids. And maybe just a few random jerks.

I think what you are going through is totally normal. Some people actually find it healing to recognize that they are parting their child the way they should have been parented, but resentment, sadness, and other uncomfortable feelings pop up along the way.

You didn't ask, but just know that it would be OK for you and your DH to keep your vacation plans to yourselves to prevent your mom and sister from "crashing" Just lie to them. They seem to have a dysfunctional dynamic that requires you being around. It is totally fine for you not to play in to that.

Dp. That is so interesting to me. My sisters summon me to family events, ignore or harass me while I'm there and punish me when I decline invitations. Recently, my sister refused to come with me to a doctor's appt where I was expecting (and received) a life altering diagnosis. The reason she gave was because I don't attend family functions.

Another DP. My sister did something similar. When I went to family gatherings, she would summon me to speak to her at some point during the gathering so that she could lecture me about something. Or sometimes she'd summon me on the premise that she needed to tell me about something going on with our parents, but then no matter how I responded (even when I responded by asking her how I could help her or what she was looking for from me), she'd become angry because it wasn't the response she had in her head.

So I changed the way I'd go to family events, and arrange it so I wasn't available for these little conversations, or where if she wanted to have them with me, she had to do it with others around. Then she started complaining that I wasn't putting enough effort into our relationship, and now she barely speaks to me.

Setting boundaries can be difficult when the other person can't see or understand that they are violating your boundaries. But that's also when it's most worth it. I am sad for the state of my relationship with my sister, but do prefer this to the way it used to be, when I always felt afraid of her or like I was scrambling to try and please her. At least now I feel at peace with my own choices.

This is previous dp. This is the dynamic I currently have with my sister. When I have explicitly told her how I feel (stressed, unhappy, etc) she doesn't acknowledge what I said. Instead, she jumps to the next thing which is typically that I am not a good family member. I rely on logic to cope, but it doesn't work with her. Why do people want us around when they clearly don't like, approve, accept, enjoy us?

PP. I’ve asked the same thing. But in the end, it doesn’t matter why. I don’t want to spend my time with people who will do nothing but criticize, judge, and make demands of me, so I don’t. If they are going to criticize/harass no matter what I do, I might as well just do what I want. I wasted time trying to please them and it never worked, so I gave up. Still have a crap relationship with my sister, but I have a better relationship with myself.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - I don't think I am explaining myself well.

The point of my post is that despite turning out "okay" I wish I had a deeper/warmer emotional connection with my mother. She was super strict/religious and overreacted about everything when I was growing up so I quickly felt from a very young age that I couldn't really share anything with her and my ticket out was to do well in school. And it's still true - whenever I am with her she immediately reverts back to treating me like a teenager and still takes my younger sister's side in every conflict so my instinct is to just both of them at arms length.

This is all coming to a head now since they are crashing my vacation next week. Again not a real question, just complaining.

You explained yourself fine. You just triggered a bunch of people who feel defensive about their own parenting or who are still processing what they dealt with as kids. And maybe just a few random jerks.

I think what you are going through is totally normal. Some people actually find it healing to recognize that they are parting their child the way they should have been parented, but resentment, sadness, and other uncomfortable feelings pop up along the way.

You didn't ask, but just know that it would be OK for you and your DH to keep your vacation plans to yourselves to prevent your mom and sister from "crashing" Just lie to them. They seem to have a dysfunctional dynamic that requires you being around. It is totally fine for you not to play in to that.

Dp. That is so interesting to me. My sisters summon me to family events, ignore or harass me while I'm there and punish me when I decline invitations. Recently, my sister refused to come with me to a doctor's appt where I was expecting (and received) a life altering diagnosis. The reason she gave was because I don't attend family functions.

Another DP. My sister did something similar. When I went to family gatherings, she would summon me to speak to her at some point during the gathering so that she could lecture me about something. Or sometimes she'd summon me on the premise that she needed to tell me about something going on with our parents, but then no matter how I responded (even when I responded by asking her how I could help her or what she was looking for from me), she'd become angry because it wasn't the response she had in her head.

So I changed the way I'd go to family events, and arrange it so I wasn't available for these little conversations, or where if she wanted to have them with me, she had to do it with others around. Then she started complaining that I wasn't putting enough effort into our relationship, and now she barely speaks to me.

Setting boundaries can be difficult when the other person can't see or understand that they are violating your boundaries. But that's also when it's most worth it. I am sad for the state of my relationship with my sister, but do prefer this to the way it used to be, when I always felt afraid of her or like I was scrambling to try and please her. At least now I feel at peace with my own choices.

This is previous dp. This is the dynamic I currently have with my sister. When I have explicitly told her how I feel (stressed, unhappy, etc) she doesn't acknowledge what I said. Instead, she jumps to the next thing which is typically that I am not a good family member. I rely on logic to cope, but it doesn't work with her. Why do people want us around when they clearly don't like, approve, accept, enjoy us?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - I don't think I am explaining myself well.

The point of my post is that despite turning out "okay" I wish I had a deeper/warmer emotional connection with my mother. She was super strict/religious and overreacted about everything when I was growing up so I quickly felt from a very young age that I couldn't really share anything with her and my ticket out was to do well in school. And it's still true - whenever I am with her she immediately reverts back to treating me like a teenager and still takes my younger sister's side in every conflict so my instinct is to just both of them at arms length.

This is all coming to a head now since they are crashing my vacation next week. Again not a real question, just complaining.

You explained yourself fine. You just triggered a bunch of people who feel defensive about their own parenting or who are still processing what they dealt with as kids. And maybe just a few random jerks.

I think what you are going through is totally normal. Some people actually find it healing to recognize that they are parting their child the way they should have been parented, but resentment, sadness, and other uncomfortable feelings pop up along the way.

You didn't ask, but just know that it would be OK for you and your DH to keep your vacation plans to yourselves to prevent your mom and sister from "crashing" Just lie to them. They seem to have a dysfunctional dynamic that requires you being around. It is totally fine for you not to play in to that.

Dp. That is so interesting to me. My sisters summon me to family events, ignore or harass me while I'm there and punish me when I decline invitations. Recently, my sister refused to come with me to a doctor's appt where I was expecting (and received) a life altering diagnosis. The reason she gave was because I don't attend family functions.

Another DP. My sister did something similar. When I went to family gatherings, she would summon me to speak to her at some point during the gathering so that she could lecture me about something. Or sometimes she'd summon me on the premise that she needed to tell me about something going on with our parents, but then no matter how I responded (even when I responded by asking her how I could help her or what she was looking for from me), she'd become angry because it wasn't the response she had in her head.

So I changed the way I'd go to family events, and arrange it so I wasn't available for these little conversations, or where if she wanted to have them with me, she had to do it with others around. Then she started complaining that I wasn't putting enough effort into our relationship, and now she barely speaks to me.

Setting boundaries can be difficult when the other person can't see or understand that they are violating your boundaries. But that's also when it's most worth it. I am sad for the state of my relationship with my sister, but do prefer this to the way it used to be, when I always felt afraid of her or like I was scrambling to try and please her. At least now I feel at peace with my own choices.