Anonymous
05/16/2023 20:56
Subject: Re:NYTimes: College educated workers are leaving DC due to high housing costs
Anonymous wrote:
I can absolutely afford one, I just choose not to own one. I do not need one where I live.
One of the best things about living in DC---you don't need a car if you can afford it.
Anonymous
05/16/2023 20:28
Subject: NYTimes: College educated workers are leaving DC due to high housing costs
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The reality is that these T2 cities now have most of the amenities of larger cities with nicer housing, less traffic and fewer awful people. And for the number of times you actually use the Smithsonian or go to the theater, you can travel to NYC or DC four times a year to see the shows and then GTFO back to a more civilized enclave.
Depends on the person. We actually use the Smithsonian almost every weekend. We are also tired of the high cost of housing and some of the culture in DC, and are exploring moving elsewhere. But losing access to free museums and events, all year round, is actually a big deal and not easy to give up.
Another issue we are encountering is that there are very few truly walkable cities in the US. DC, NYC, Boston, Philly. Chicago has decent public transportation which can make it walkable if you live/work/go to school in the right place. Seattle is walkable in parts but it's public transportation is spotty. All the other alternatives people have mentioned -- Minneapolis, Portland, Denver, Austin, etc. -- you will be very car dependent.
But NYC and Seattle are as expensive if not more so than DC. Boston is comparable. Philly and Chicago are cheaper; they are also more insular and can be harder to move to as an outsider -- fewer transplants and if you aren't from there, it can be socially difficult.
I totally get why people might want to leave DC. We often feel that way. But the idea that there are lots of other cities that offer what DC offers is false. DC offers something really unique: a walkable, modern city with a booming economy, tons of cultural/social activities and venues, AND a culture that is extremely friendly to newcomers and outsiders.
I can’t recommend Philly enough. Like all big cities, it has big city problems, but cost of living is so much better and has all of the amenities, most of which are better than DC. Much better in terms of restaurants, etc. Also, it really isn’t insular at least in greater center city. Lots of transplants from Europe as well. The only major issue is that schools are difficult to navigate in the city. There are options but not easy if you don’t go private. Suburbs have comparable school stock to DC burbs
I could not disagree more. I used to live in Philly, have tons of family in the area, and still get back there often. It really isn't that much cheaper when you consider city taxes and having to send your kids to private school. (Maybe you'll get lucky and get a charter, but most of those are mediocre, or by high school get into Masterman or Central). The city itself has really gotten rough post-covid. Even Rittenhouse has homeless people laying in the middle of the sidewalk. And it is incredibly provincial. If someone finds out you are from there, they ask what high school you go to. The main line is incredibly insular among the upper crust. The other suburbs and places like the far Northeast are filled with people who think Tacony is exotic. The cultural amenities are expensive and second tier, at best. The one place they have DC (and many other cities) beat is food. A great eating city, no doubt.
Anonymous
05/16/2023 20:27
Subject: NYTimes: College educated workers are leaving DC due to high housing costs
Anonymous wrote:Baltimore is only a hour away by MARC and there's a 45 minute express in the afternoon. Wonder why more don't move up to Baltimore.
But to drive from Towson or wherever to Penn Station or Camden Station adds about 30 minutes to that trip.
Anonymous
05/16/2023 20:27
Subject: NYTimes: College educated workers are leaving DC due to high housing costs
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The reality is that these T2 cities now have most of the amenities of larger cities with nicer housing, less traffic and fewer awful people. And for the number of times you actually use the Smithsonian or go to the theater, you can travel to NYC or DC four times a year to see the shows and then GTFO back to a more civilized enclave.
Depends on the person. We actually use the Smithsonian almost every weekend. We are also tired of the high cost of housing and some of the culture in DC, and are exploring moving elsewhere. But losing access to free museums and events, all year round, is actually a big deal and not easy to give up.
Another issue we are encountering is that there are very few truly walkable cities in the US. DC, NYC, Boston, Philly. Chicago has decent public transportation which can make it walkable if you live/work/go to school in the right place. Seattle is walkable in parts but it's public transportation is spotty. All the other alternatives people have mentioned -- Minneapolis, Portland, Denver, Austin, etc. -- you will be very car dependent.
But NYC and Seattle are as expensive if not more so than DC. Boston is comparable. Philly and Chicago are cheaper; they are also more insular and can be harder to move to as an outsider -- fewer transplants and if you aren't from there, it can be socially difficult.
I totally get why people might want to leave DC. We often feel that way. But the idea that there are lots of other cities that offer what DC offers is false. DC offers something really unique: a walkable, modern city with a booming economy, tons of cultural/social activities and venues, AND a culture that is extremely friendly to newcomers and outsiders.
I can’t recommend Philly enough. Like all big cities, it has big city problems, but cost of living is so much better and has all of the amenities, most of which are better than DC. Much better in terms of restaurants, etc. Also, it really isn’t insular at least in greater center city. Lots of transplants from Europe as well. The only major issue is that schools are difficult to navigate in the city. There are options but not easy if you don’t go private. Suburbs have comparable school stock to DC burbs
I absolutely respectfully disagree with PP about culture that is friendly to newcomers and outsiders here. I'm from Chicago and came here years ago for a job where I met my husband and settled. I am STILL having a hard time making solid friendships work. Most of the folks that I get along with end up moving after x amount of time. Nobody who I really like stays. Nobody here is truly nice - there's always a motive for being "nice" so that they seem like it but really aren't. I have never actually met so many not nice people until I came out here. In the MW like Chicago, I met truly nice people. Normal people who said how they felt and did not play games with you - the social aspect here is very very important to people and what results is that you can't really trust anyone to be a friend even if they are "nice" to you. I love Philly a lot and I don't think that the school thing is really the big obstacle - I have to put my kids in private in Alexandria so on top of high cost of living - there is the school to consider paying for. I HATE it here but it's where we've settled. But make no mistake, I would never ever suggest people to move here or stay here if they could leave. I would never suggest this area is friendly and nice. The places mentioned like Philly, Chicago, even SF and NYC - these are artistic centers and moreover, financial hubs (NYC/Chicago anyway). They are food places. In DC I know people think there's good food here but they have no idea. It's lawyers who like to be seen and pay $$$ for fancy beautiful looking dishes. Really good food is what you get in Chicago/Philly/NYC - Fancy and good food are NOT the same. Anyway, I just do not feel that DMV really great taste - great educated people maybe and even well travelled but kinda like new money, they aren't refined and do not have a lot of taste. Most people I know who do leave DMV after some time.
Anonymous
05/16/2023 20:24
Subject: NYTimes: College educated workers are leaving DC due to high housing costs
Anonymous wrote:We left dc and it was the best decision we made. Our kids go to a strong public in our new, small city. The mental load here is so much less - less competitive professionally and academically, cost of living is about 60% less than dc, there is little traffic. We have everything we need, albeit no world class museums or a multitude of fine dining restaurants, but we don’t miss those things that much. We have calm, normal neighbors who do normal things and take normal vacations. My kids aren’t in a pressure cooker school yet still seems to be learning a ton and doing great on standardized testing. Their college options are better coming from here than close in DMV. We have room to breathe. We moved about 4 years ago and our house has appreciated about 50%.
Congratulations on the mediocrity.
Anonymous
05/16/2023 20:05
Subject: NYTimes: College educated workers are leaving DC due to high housing costs
Baltimore is only a hour away by MARC and there's a 45 minute express in the afternoon. Wonder why more don't move up to Baltimore.
Anonymous
05/16/2023 19:51
Subject: NYTimes: College educated workers are leaving DC due to high housing costs
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The reality is that these T2 cities now have most of the amenities of larger cities with nicer housing, less traffic and fewer awful people. And for the number of times you actually use the Smithsonian or go to the theater, you can travel to NYC or DC four times a year to see the shows and then GTFO back to a more civilized enclave.
Depends on the person. We actually use the Smithsonian almost every weekend. We are also tired of the high cost of housing and some of the culture in DC, and are exploring moving elsewhere. But losing access to free museums and events, all year round, is actually a big deal and not easy to give up.
Another issue we are encountering is that there are very few truly walkable cities in the US. DC, NYC, Boston, Philly. Chicago has decent public transportation which can make it walkable if you live/work/go to school in the right place. Seattle is walkable in parts but it's public transportation is spotty. All the other alternatives people have mentioned -- Minneapolis, Portland, Denver, Austin, etc. -- you will be very car dependent.
But NYC and Seattle are as expensive if not more so than DC. Boston is comparable. Philly and Chicago are cheaper; they are also more insular and can be harder to move to as an outsider -- fewer transplants and if you aren't from there, it can be socially difficult.
I totally get why people might want to leave DC. We often feel that way. But the idea that there are lots of other cities that offer what DC offers is false. DC offers something really unique: a walkable, modern city with a booming economy, tons of cultural/social activities and venues, AND a culture that is extremely friendly to newcomers and outsiders.
I can’t recommend Philly enough. Like all big cities, it has big city problems, but cost of living is so much better and has all of the amenities, most of which are better than DC. Much better in terms of restaurants, etc. Also, it really isn’t insular at least in greater center city. Lots of transplants from Europe as well. The only major issue is that schools are difficult to navigate in the city. There are options but not easy if you don’t go private. Suburbs have comparable school stock to DC burbs
Anonymous
05/16/2023 19:38
Subject: NYTimes: College educated workers are leaving DC due to high housing costs
Anonymous wrote:We left dc and it was the best decision we made. Our kids go to a strong public in our new, small city. The mental load here is so much less - less competitive professionally and academically, cost of living is about 60% less than dc, there is little traffic. We have everything we need, albeit no world class museums or a multitude of fine dining restaurants, but we don’t miss those things that much. We have calm, normal neighbors who do normal things and take normal vacations. My kids aren’t in a pressure cooker school yet still seems to be learning a ton and doing great on standardized testing. Their college options are better coming from here than close in DMV. We have room to breathe. We moved about 4 years ago and our house has appreciated about 50%.
East Grand Rapids?
Anonymous
05/16/2023 19:37
Subject: NYTimes: College educated workers are leaving DC due to high housing costs
Anonymous wrote:We left dc and it was the best decision we made. Our kids go to a strong public in our new, small city. The mental load here is so much less - less competitive professionally and academically, cost of living is about 60% less than dc, there is little traffic. We have everything we need, albeit no world class museums or a multitude of fine dining restaurants, but we don’t miss those things that much. We have calm, normal neighbors who do normal things and take normal vacations. My kids aren’t in a pressure cooker school yet still seems to be learning a ton and doing great on standardized testing. Their college options are better coming from here than close in DMV. We have room to breathe. We moved about 4 years ago and our house has appreciated about 50%.
Where are you now?
Anonymous
05/16/2023 19:28
Subject: NYTimes: College educated workers are leaving DC due to high housing costs
We left dc and it was the best decision we made. Our kids go to a strong public in our new, small city. The mental load here is so much less - less competitive professionally and academically, cost of living is about 60% less than dc, there is little traffic. We have everything we need, albeit no world class museums or a multitude of fine dining restaurants, but we don’t miss those things that much. We have calm, normal neighbors who do normal things and take normal vacations. My kids aren’t in a pressure cooker school yet still seems to be learning a ton and doing great on standardized testing. Their college options are better coming from here than close in DMV. We have room to breathe. We moved about 4 years ago and our house has appreciated about 50%.
Anonymous
05/16/2023 19:12
Subject: Re:NYTimes: College educated workers are leaving DC due to high housing costs
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It’s not just cheaper housing. It’s better schools, less crime and fewer homeless people.
Not to mention rural, towns and suburbs have caught up in terms of dining, gyms and other amenities. You no longer need to live in a city for access to these things.
Virginia?
No. I live in a rural town and there is none of the following here or within 90 minutes of me: stores such as Lululemon, Apple, Athleta, Nordstrom, Coach and also Whole Foods, Equinox, Lifetime Fitness, Trader Joe’s, Soulcycle, Justsalad, Sweetgreen and Cava.
Every single one of these things that isn’t edible is available more conveniently online, and my smaller town has a better organic market and much better artisanal restaurants than Sweetgreen and Cava lol.
What smaller town can support an organic market?? This most be a vacation destination. Real rural towns don’t have organic markets, they have a section in Walmart. .
This is just untrue. I lived in a very rural town that had an organic co-op.
You should get out once in a while.
Outside of New England It a resort town? Name the state
Anonymous
05/16/2023 19:07
Subject: Re:NYTimes: College educated workers are leaving DC due to high housing costs
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:That’s short-sighted. You stay in the city in a crummy group house in your 20s because it’s the time to network & meet lifelong partner. No better place to do that.
Sounds miserable.
Yes, spending your days running into many potential peers/mates on metro, at coffee shops, at work, at parks, at museums, at parties and at clubs sounds miserable.
Uh, people meet in apps now, hmm grannie. Not the freaking SUBWAY!
Dating apps suck
Dating apps do suck, but not as badly as being hit on by randos in the metro.
Totally disagree.
Anonymous
05/16/2023 19:07
Subject: Re:NYTimes: College educated workers are leaving DC due to high housing costs
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:That’s short-sighted. You stay in the city in a crummy group house in your 20s because it’s the time to network & meet lifelong partner. No better place to do that.
Sounds miserable.
Yes, spending your days running into many potential peers/mates on metro, at coffee shops, at work, at parks, at museums, at parties and at clubs sounds miserable.
Uh, people meet in apps now, hmm grannie. Not the freaking SUBWAY!
Dating apps suck
Dating apps do suck, but not as badly as being hit on by randos in the metro.
Anonymous
05/16/2023 18:56
Subject: Re:NYTimes: College educated workers are leaving DC due to high housing costs
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:That’s short-sighted. You stay in the city in a crummy group house in your 20s because it’s the time to network & meet lifelong partner. No better place to do that.
Sounds miserable.
Yes, spending your days running into many potential peers/mates on metro, at coffee shops, at work, at parks, at museums, at parties and at clubs sounds miserable.
Uh, people meet in apps now, hmm grannie. Not the freaking SUBWAY!
Dating apps suck
Anonymous
05/16/2023 18:56
Subject: Re:NYTimes: College educated workers are leaving DC due to high housing costs
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:That’s short-sighted. You stay in the city in a crummy group house in your 20s because it’s the time to network & meet lifelong partner. No better place to do that.
Sounds miserable.
Yes, spending your days running into many potential peers/mates on metro, at coffee shops, at work, at parks, at museums, at parties and at clubs sounds miserable.
Who wants to be hit on at work and on the metro?
Normal people?