Anonymous
05/13/2023 19:44
Subject: Re:Everyone I ever met who went to Harvard Law School graduated from a college I've never heard of.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think it’s more of a correlation v. causation thing
What? Seriously, you can do better.
Nope. Some of the posters think that Harvard Law and the like are taking T50 undergrads v. undergrads from no-name schools simply because they favor undergrads who fall into the former group. That’s not the case. T14 law schools are mostly filled with students who went to t50 undergrads because those students tend to be excellent test takers, have great GPAs & want to go on to grad school. So, they apply & get admitted to top law schools en massé.
Most kids who go to podunk nowhere college don’t care about their grades, aren’t good test takers & don’t care about going to law school. If a kid at podunk nowhere college gets a 4.0 GPA and 178 LSAT, they’re going to have excellent law school prospects. No law school is going to turn them down because they happen to go to podunk nowhere college.
False, but you are OP with an axe to grind I went to HLS. The 173 (out of 560-570 per class cited above) were valedictorians from very very good schools. I can't remember a single student who went to a school "I've never heard of". The fact you haven't heard of most of them is bizarre. The other 370 went to Harvard or other top schools. 1/3 of my HLS class came from Harvard undergrad. That still leaves almost 400 schools to pick from.
Yeah I think OP likely doesn’t know the landscape of schools very well. Op’s “never heard of” could actually be a school that is actually known reasonably well and just isn’t Ivy League or equivalent.
Anonymous
05/13/2023 19:21
Subject: Re:Everyone I ever met who went to Harvard Law School graduated from a college I've never heard of.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think it’s more of a correlation v. causation thing
What? Seriously, you can do better.
Nope. Some of the posters think that Harvard Law and the like are taking T50 undergrads v. undergrads from no-name schools simply because they favor undergrads who fall into the former group. That’s not the case. T14 law schools are mostly filled with students who went to t50 undergrads because those students tend to be excellent test takers, have great GPAs & want to go on to grad school. So, they apply & get admitted to top law schools en massé.
Most kids who go to podunk nowhere college don’t care about their grades, aren’t good test takers & don’t care about going to law school. If a kid at podunk nowhere college gets a 4.0 GPA and 178 LSAT, they’re going to have excellent law school prospects. No law school is going to turn them down because they happen to go to podunk nowhere college.
False, but you are OP with an axe to grind I went to HLS. The 173 (out of 560-570 per class cited above) were valedictorians from very very good schools. I can't remember a single student who went to a school "I've never heard of". The fact you haven't heard of most of them is bizarre. The other 370 went to Harvard or other top schools. 1/3 of my HLS class came from Harvard undergrad. That still leaves almost 400 schools to pick from.
Anonymous
05/13/2023 19:04
Subject: Everyone I ever met who went to Harvard Law School graduated from a college I've never heard of.
The biggest feeder is by far Harvard, followed by other ivies, top 20s, and “known” schools (including top LACs, women’s colleges and religious schools like BYU) and state flagships. Also service academies.
I see a lot of HLS bios/resumes. I work in biglaw recruiting.
I see a lot of HLS bios/resumes. I work in biglaw recruiting.
Anonymous
05/13/2023 18:59
Subject: Re:Everyone I ever met who went to Harvard Law School graduated from a college I've never heard of.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think it’s more of a correlation v. causation thing
What? Seriously, you can do better.
Nope. Some of the posters think that Harvard Law and the like are taking T50 undergrads v. undergrads from no-name schools simply because they favor undergrads who fall into the former group. That’s not the case. T14 law schools are mostly filled with students who went to t50 undergrads because those students tend to be excellent test takers, have great GPAs & want to go on to grad school. So, they apply & get admitted to top law schools en massé.
Most kids who go to podunk nowhere college don’t care about their grades, aren’t good test takers & don’t care about going to law school. If a kid at podunk nowhere college gets a 4.0 GPA and 178 LSAT, they’re going to have excellent law school prospects. No law school is going to turn them down because they happen to go to podunk nowhere college.
Anonymous
05/13/2023 18:59
Subject: Everyone I ever met who went to Harvard Law School graduated from a college I've never heard of.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This is probably more about your familiarity with colleges than about Harvard law admissions.
+1 OP, name the schools you’ve never heard of. DH is a HLS alum, and he went to Williams. His closest law school friends went to UNC, Michigan, Yale, Carleton, Swarthmore, and Harvard undergrad. All well known schools for those who are familiar with top colleges.
Harvard law draws from about 174 different undergrads institutions. Quite possible someone not familiar with all the schools on the list. https://hls.harvard.edu/jdadmissions/apply-to-harvard-law-school/jdapplicants/hls-profile-and-facts/undergraduate-institutions/
Nor is this unique. Look up any other elite law school and they will draw from around 100 colleges on up to the Harvard range, depending on size of the class.
But you fail to account for the fact that each law school class at Harvard has 560 members in it, so your "174" is less than 1/3 of the class.
This.. also you don’t know how many of those 174 are URMs
Anonymous
05/13/2023 18:53
Subject: Everyone I ever met who went to Harvard Law School graduated from a college I've never heard of.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think this just means there are a lot of really great undergraduate programs you’ve never heard of.
I mean, just because you’ve never heard of Kenyon or Waterloo doesn’t mean anything about Harvard. It just says your world is pretty small.
You can see google this. Are these really unfamiliar names?
https://hls.harvard.edu/jdadmissions/apply-to-harvard-law-school/jdapplicants/hls-profile-and-facts/undergraduate-institutions/
Also, Creighton, multiple Cal State campuses, multiple CUNY campuses, Patrick Henry, Dillard…
So Cal state and CUNY give full merit rides to exceptional students amd have some special programs for them. That draws some very bright kids who need to be very close to home for various reasons.
The kids from lower ranked schools at HLS almost always tend to be the undergrad merit scholarship program kids.
Nope. Valedictorians from top SLACs and other schools. That was me
Anonymous
05/13/2023 18:52
Subject: Re:Everyone I ever met who went to Harvard Law School graduated from a college I've never heard of.
Anonymous wrote:I think it’s more of a correlation v. causation thing
What? Seriously, you can do better.
Anonymous
05/13/2023 18:51
Subject: Re:Everyone I ever met who went to Harvard Law School graduated from a college I've never heard of.
Anonymous wrote:I think it’s more of a correlation v. causation thing
Yes because law school cares so much about overall gpa, so you basically need to have it pretty together starting w freshman year of college, which means you likely had it together in high school too—the timing is so close. And you need to be a good test taker.
Anonymous
05/13/2023 18:46
Subject: Re:Everyone I ever met who went to Harvard Law School graduated from a college I've never heard of.
I think it’s more of a correlation v. causation thing
Anonymous
05/13/2023 18:42
Subject: Everyone I ever met who went to Harvard Law School graduated from a college I've never heard of.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think this just means there are a lot of really great undergraduate programs you’ve never heard of.
I mean, just because you’ve never heard of Kenyon or Waterloo doesn’t mean anything about Harvard. It just says your world is pretty small.
You can see google this. Are these really unfamiliar names?
https://hls.harvard.edu/jdadmissions/apply-to-harvard-law-school/jdapplicants/hls-profile-and-facts/undergraduate-institutions/
Also, Creighton, multiple Cal State campuses, multiple CUNY campuses, Patrick Henry, Dillard…
So Cal state and CUNY give full merit rides to exceptional students amd have some special programs for them. That draws some very bright kids who need to be very close to home for various reasons.
The kids from lower ranked schools at HLS almost always tend to be the undergrad merit scholarship program kids.
CUNY especially draws smart poor immigrant kids who have to stay in nyc. I know a lot of people with this profile who went from Stuyvesant or Bronx science to cuny with merit money and then a top grad school.
Anonymous
05/13/2023 18:33
Subject: Everyone I ever met who went to Harvard Law School graduated from a college I've never heard of.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think this just means there are a lot of really great undergraduate programs you’ve never heard of.
I mean, just because you’ve never heard of Kenyon or Waterloo doesn’t mean anything about Harvard. It just says your world is pretty small.
You can see google this. Are these really unfamiliar names?
https://hls.harvard.edu/jdadmissions/apply-to-harvard-law-school/jdapplicants/hls-profile-and-facts/undergraduate-institutions/
Also, Creighton, multiple Cal State campuses, multiple CUNY campuses, Patrick Henry, Dillard…
So Cal state and CUNY give full merit rides to exceptional students amd have some special programs for them. That draws some very bright kids who need to be very close to home for various reasons.
The kids from lower ranked schools at HLS almost always tend to be the undergrad merit scholarship program kids.
Anonymous
05/13/2023 18:25
Subject: Re:Everyone I ever met who went to Harvard Law School graduated from a college I've never heard of.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Elite professional schools love to brag about how they have students from 200 different colleges all over the US. What they don’t say is that the majority of their student bodies attended elite undergraduate schools.
+1 The above post is 100% correct. (I suspect that OP is engaging in wishful thinking rather than accepting reality.)
All true. HLS has the top student from 173 colleges. But that's less than 1/3 of each incoming class (560). When I went to HLS (a long time ago), it was 1/3 Harvard undergrad, although some of those tried for several years to get in (they would go abroad or get advanced degrees while trying two or three times - if that didn't work, they went to "lesser" law schools.
Anonymous
05/13/2023 18:22
Subject: Everyone I ever met who went to Harvard Law School graduated from a college I've never heard of.
Article on new methodology being used. For those who don't know, the law schools' obsession with GPA and LSAT is due to the old methodology used by USNWR, just as it has had an outsized impact on undergrad admissions. https://www.reuters.com/legal/legalindustry/big-shifts-us-news-world-report-law-school-rankings-heres-why-2023-05-11/#:~:text=Under%20the%20new%20methodology%2C%2058,bar%20pass%20rate%20is%207%25.
Anonymous
05/13/2023 18:21
Subject: Everyone I ever met who went to Harvard Law School graduated from a college I've never heard of.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I know HLS grads who went to Harvard undergrad. And I know HLS grads who went to undergrad at TCU and UK (as in, the University of Kentucky) and SCU. Oh, and Lake Forest College, though he was old (and kind of a jerk TBH).
There is a continuum. If your undergrad is in the top 100 ish, or is your state flagship, you are in good shape as far as undergrad institution. You don't need a top 30. You do need a high GPA.
If someone theoretically had a perfect GPA & LSAT and was at an undergrad ranked #300, I’m sure they’d have good law school options.
But not Harvard. And major would matter, too. A dance major from App State with a 4.0 is not going to Harvard Law.
Yes they are if they have a 179 LSAT.
No really, it’s not that simple. This is one of the big lies repeated on this board. They have a chance, yes. But stop telling people that a high lsat is all you need. Maybe this was true 20 or 40 years ago but it is absolutely not the case now.
I know a dual math and history major with a 4.0 in each degree, stellar recs, internships, ECs, leadership positions, and awards with a 175 who didn’t break top 10.
Something is very wrong with this story. And no I am not relying on dated information about admissions.
It actually doesn't matter, because the new methodology used by USNWR last week shifts the emphasis to job placement outcomes, less on LSAT and GPA, so you will see the "lesser" law schools following suit (the 63 who opted outwill do their own thing, but, nevertheless, the emphasis on LSAT and GPA that USNWR used should shift evaluation and admissions significantly)
Anonymous
05/13/2023 18:17
Subject: Everyone I ever met who went to Harvard Law School graduated from a college I've never heard of.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This is probably more about your familiarity with colleges than about Harvard law admissions.
+1 OP, name the schools you’ve never heard of. DH is a HLS alum, and he went to Williams. His closest law school friends went to UNC, Michigan, Yale, Carleton, Swarthmore, and Harvard undergrad. All well known schools for those who are familiar with top colleges.
Harvard law draws from about 174 different undergrads institutions. Quite possible someone not familiar with all the schools on the list. https://hls.harvard.edu/jdadmissions/apply-to-harvard-law-school/jdapplicants/hls-profile-and-facts/undergraduate-institutions/
Nor is this unique. Look up any other elite law school and they will draw from around 100 colleges on up to the Harvard range, depending on size of the class.
But you fail to account for the fact that each law school class at Harvard has 560 members in it, so your "174" is less than 1/3 of the class.