Anonymous
Post 04/28/2023 20:14     Subject: Re:Do people who do PhDs realize that they aren’t worth the time?
Anonymous wrote:It’s impossible to get into funded PhD programs as an American undergrad.


Not true at all
Anonymous
Post 04/28/2023 20:09     Subject: Re:Do people who do PhDs realize that they aren’t worth the time?
From a strictly financial stand point, I guess I shouldn’t have gotten my PhD. It was fully funded, but I earned only a TA salary for those years. But, I have rich parents and a rich husband so I never really worried about money. That is just the truth of my circumstances. I could have done nothing with my life and still been financially secure. However, I’m a smart woman who is capable of being helpful in the world, so I got a PhD and am perfectly well compensated in a field that makes people’s lives meaningfully better. I’m okay with my slightly lower lifetime earnings.
Anonymous
Post 04/28/2023 20:09     Subject: Re:Do people who do PhDs realize that they aren’t worth the time?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It’s impossible to get into funded PhD programs as an American undergrad.


This is absolutely false. Laughably so.


No it isn’t. They fill them with international students from developing countries who think making $30k/year for 6 years is the cat’s pajamas. Meanwhile, tons of American undergrads applying to STEM PhDs get shut out every year.


This is wrong.

DD recently finished her PhD in a STEM field. Many of her classmates were international (mostly Asian) but not all. She graduated #1 in her college class and had many internships while an undergrad. You do have to work hard as an undergrad to get into a top American PhD program, but it is possible. All the grad students in her PhD cohort graduated at the top of their respective classes, whether from an American U or outside the US. Well over half were from American U's, BTW.
Anonymous
Post 04/28/2023 20:05     Subject: Do people who do PhDs realize that they aren’t worth the time?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Baffles the mind that someone thinks a terminal degree in any field won't pay more than stopping along the way. A phD in Psychology is not going to have a bachelors in computer science or vice versa and a phD in psychology always makes more money than a bachelors in Psychology.


You can’t be serious. Getting a master’s or PhD in computer science isn’t going to earn someone anything more than a bachelor’s in that field would.


Most Masters programs in engineering/CS are funded (TA/RA/in-state tuition/waiver, etc.) and takes an extra year. Good deal in the grand scheme of things. Once you get into PhD, it is funded and you are not in it for the money (although CS PhDs get paid good money to teach). A programmer (often the job you get after a BS) is a low-end job, akin to a plumber. After 10 years you are still a plumber, albeit a senior one and when crap like the current downturn or a more serious one hits, you may be out of a job. With a PhD in a CS domain, you are teaching and researching a CS domain., much higher level job with a very low risk of job loss after tenure. Sure, the CS person with only a bachelor's degree can make more money in the short to medium term.. until they get laid off after 45-50 years. Good luck after that. The PhD can continue their research teaching well into their 80s if they choose to, live in a safe college town, lead a low-stress life, travel the world and generally have a much higher QOL that one with just a BS.


Is this correct? I assumed so, but a friend’s son has applied for an electrical engineering masters and will not be funded. Deciding between UCLA and UW.


Your friend's son should be applying for PhD programs, not MS programs. The PhD programs are funded, but if you only want an MS or MsE, you can leave with that degree, which will be completely funded.


Not PP but PhD programs require research experience that many students might not have despite having both an excellent GPA and GRE. If you went to a community college before transferring to a 4-year, or went to a regional state school, you might not get any research experience. The only way to get it then would be to pay to do a master’s.
Anonymous
Post 04/28/2023 20:03     Subject: Re:Do people who do PhDs realize that they aren’t worth the time?
My spouse and I both have PhDs (one in STEM, one in social science) and I wish i hadn't done it. But almost all of the paths I wish I had taken weren't even on my radar ar 22, or my parents'. Hindsight is 20/20.
Anonymous
Post 04/28/2023 20:03     Subject: Do people who do PhDs realize that they aren’t worth the time?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Baffles the mind that someone thinks a terminal degree in any field won't pay more than stopping along the way. A phD in Psychology is not going to have a bachelors in computer science or vice versa and a phD in psychology always makes more money than a bachelors in Psychology.


You can’t be serious. Getting a master’s or PhD in computer science isn’t going to earn someone anything more than a bachelor’s in that field would.


Most Masters programs in engineering/CS are funded (TA/RA/in-state tuition/waiver, etc.) and takes an extra year. Good deal in the grand scheme of things. Once you get into PhD, it is funded and you are not in it for the money (although CS PhDs get paid good money to teach). A programmer (often the job you get after a BS) is a low-end job, akin to a plumber. After 10 years you are still a plumber, albeit a senior one and when crap like the current downturn or a more serious one hits, you may be out of a job. With a PhD in a CS domain, you are teaching and researching a CS domain., much higher level job with a very low risk of job loss after tenure. Sure, the CS person with only a bachelor's degree can make more money in the short to medium term.. until they get laid off after 45-50 years. Good luck after that. The PhD can continue their research teaching well into their 80s if they choose to, live in a safe college town, lead a low-stress life, travel the world and generally have a much higher QOL that one with just a BS.


Is this correct? I assumed so, but a friend’s son has applied for an electrical engineering masters and will not be funded. Deciding between UCLA and UW.


Your friend's son should be applying for PhD programs, not MS programs. The PhD programs are funded, but if you only want an MS or MsE, you can leave with that degree, which will be completely funded.
Anonymous
Post 04/28/2023 20:00     Subject: Do people who do PhDs realize that they aren’t worth the time?
If you have to pay for a PhD, then yes, OP is correct. It is a waste of money.

But any PhD that's worthwhile pays you. You should never pay for a PhD.

DD has a PhD from a very prestigious program, and she makes a very comfortable living. Not wealthy, but solidly middle class. Oh, and she loves what she does (not academia). Sometimes you need a PhD to do certain types of work. It's worth it if you do it for the right reasons and you don't pay for it.
Anonymous
Post 04/28/2023 19:59     Subject: Re:Do people who do PhDs realize that they aren’t worth the time?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It’s impossible to get into funded PhD programs as an American undergrad.


This is absolutely false. Laughably so.


No it isn’t. They fill them with international students from developing countries who think making $30k/year for 6 years is the cat’s pajamas. Meanwhile, tons of American undergrads applying to STEM PhDs get shut out every year.
Anonymous
Post 04/28/2023 19:56     Subject: Re:Do people who do PhDs realize that they aren’t worth the time?
Anonymous wrote:It’s impossible to get into funded PhD programs as an American undergrad.


This is absolutely false. Laughably so.
Anonymous
Post 04/28/2023 19:55     Subject: Re:Do people who do PhDs realize that they aren’t worth the time?
It’s impossible to get into funded PhD programs as an American undergrad.
Anonymous
Post 04/28/2023 19:54     Subject: Do people who do PhDs realize that they aren’t worth the time?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Baffles the mind that someone thinks a terminal degree in any field won't pay more than stopping along the way. A phD in Psychology is not going to have a bachelors in computer science or vice versa and a phD in psychology always makes more money than a bachelors in Psychology.


You can’t be serious. Getting a master’s or PhD in computer science isn’t going to earn someone anything more than a bachelor’s in that field would.


Most Masters programs in engineering/CS are funded (TA/RA/in-state tuition/waiver, etc.) and takes an extra year. Good deal in the grand scheme of things. Once you get into PhD, it is funded and you are not in it for the money (although CS PhDs get paid good money to teach). A programmer (often the job you get after a BS) is a low-end job, akin to a plumber. After 10 years you are still a plumber, albeit a senior one and when crap like the current downturn or a more serious one hits, you may be out of a job. With a PhD in a CS domain, you are teaching and researching a CS domain., much higher level job with a very low risk of job loss after tenure. Sure, the CS person with only a bachelor's degree can make more money in the short to medium term.. until they get laid off after 45-50 years. Good luck after that. The PhD can continue their research teaching well into their 80s if they choose to, live in a safe college town, lead a low-stress life, travel the world and generally have a much higher QOL that one with just a BS.


Is this correct? I assumed so, but a friend’s son has applied for an electrical engineering masters and will not be funded. Deciding between UCLA and UW.
Anonymous
Post 04/28/2023 19:53     Subject: Re:Do people who do PhDs realize that they aren’t worth the time?
If you have any interest in research, you need a PhD to have any control over the direction of the research and be taken seriously. Otherwise you are doing grunt work for someone else's research.

If you want to work in a field that is adjacent to research or academia, you need a PhD to be taken seriously.

I have a PhD in a medical field, and my peers are in consulting, research institutions, TT positions, R&D/pharma, university administration, even one in hospital administration etc. Virtually none of these jobs would be attainable in today's market without a PhD (or MD)... and they all pay 6 figures. The only ones who made low salaries were the ones who took postdocs on their way to better things and the ones who couldn't hack it.
Anonymous
Post 04/28/2023 19:26     Subject: Do people who do PhDs realize that they aren’t worth the time?
Anonymous wrote:My nephew with a PhD is a cancer researcher.

So that was a bad move?


+1

I’m a licensed psychologist; my work includes providing direct clinical care to and conducting research with people addicted to alcohol, often with other psychiatric comorbidities. Should I not have gone that route? What about all those researchers and scientific administrators at NIH? Waste of time?
Anonymous
Post 04/28/2023 19:24     Subject: Do people who do PhDs realize that they aren’t worth the time?
My nephew with a PhD is a cancer researcher.

So that was a bad move?
Anonymous
Post 04/28/2023 19:06     Subject: Do people who do PhDs realize that they aren’t worth the time?
Anonymous wrote:They are a huge waste of time & money. Massive opportunity cost. If you have undergrad student loans, you will have a very difficult time paying them down during a PhD program. People come out at 29 making $60k if they’re lucky, when they could’ve started making that at 22.


You’re an abusive bully.