Anonymous wrote:My understanding of the tech contraction is that while tech companies are laying off people, these employees are getting absorbed by other companies because these skills are becoming mainstream across all companies.

But not at the eye-popping salaries reflected in recent historical data.

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Anonymous wrote:There are engineers going back to school for CS degrees.

CS majors will still be in high demand and command good salaries. It doesn't necessarily have to be FAANG.

Even a CS graduate working for one of the many defense contractors in the DMV area will do well.

But as good as the last couple years? No.

again, still better than English majors, or most majors. Top paying jobs are all engineers.

“All” engineers? I am quite sure you’re wrong about that. I’d rather be a liberal arts major on track to be an MD at a major Wall Street bank (like my BIL now making 7 figures) than a CS major working on AI at a tech company.

That was 10 years ago. Much better chance of being selected as an analyst/associate if CS/engineering major in the first place compared to History/English majors even in IBD. You will see many STEM majors in IBD and almost all STEM majors in the Securities Division.

My understanding of the tech contraction is that while tech companies are laying off people, these employees are getting absorbed by other companies because these skills are becoming mainstream across all companies.

Comments like this show a lack of understanding of investment banks.

1. For every liberal arts humanities banker (call it history or english) there are at least 5 bankers with a STEM, finance/business or "hard" liberal arts background (economics, math, etc.). If a CS major wants to pursue investment banking, they are welcomed with open arms
2. A CS major is also heavily recruited as a trader, a quant supporting traders, a quant working within an IBank hedge fund (or of course directly for a hedge fund), someone working in the IT department of say GS where they are paying some crazy salaries to develop their own systems and consumer products, etc. So, while a liberal arts major has some limited opportunities in an investment bank...a CS major opting for this route has many
3. Even at an investment bank in trading or IT roles, the CS major is usually doing work in their field of study...while the liberal arts major is nothing to do with their field of study. I mean, a junior banker doesn't have to write in complete sentences, nor use Math above Algebra I (that even may be generous). Honestly, most billion $$ deals are done with PPT presentations and bullet points
4. Like BigLaw, many senior bankers and lawyers discourage their own kids from this path...these are careers where life isn't bad when you reach the top, but it is soul-sucking and painful to get there. At the very least, they make sure their kids go into them with eyes open

I guess you also have ignored the headlines coming out of Wall Street...GS and others have started significant layoffs due to rising interest rates which has significantly reduced deal flow. You realize Tech is a significant driver of finance too, right? No IPOs or M&A or VC funding...no banker fees.

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Anonymous wrote:Am very involved in the tech ecosystem and live here in DMV. Folks I know in the valley mostly have not found jobs yet. The Meta folks are struggling to find new work.

AI will crush many job types but especially so in tech. AI coding is ready quite good.

A company I know laid off its entire 20 person QA team and replaced with engineers QAing their own code with LLMs

It’s coming very fast. Human brains mostly are not evolving. AI is evolving weekly.

I’ve seen the next generation versions (we are about 6 mos into the public side of this) and they are rapidly evolving.

I don’t mean the world is ending thing. But I do mean that many jobs that we are training what we think are to-be high salaried future college grads for simply won’t be there

Remember how we used to all look at so called White Working Class and say “why are they so angry?”

Now get ready for that with CS grads in 5 years or less. The number of jobs will start to shrink fast. Meanwhile kids graduating with $200k+ of debt from private universities who expected the lifestyle of 150k plus starting comp and way more with RSUs and stock.

I personally would not encourage my kids to go in as CS (plus it’s hard as hell to get admitted given competition)

We need more skilled trades like plumbing and electrical but the DCUM crowd and our peers look down on that work. Just wait til those jobs pay more than tech coding jobs

It’s coming.

Signed,
25 year Silicon Valley guy now living in DC

Telling DCUM crowd to eschew CS for plumbing and electrician work.

Yeah...right.

You missed the point. Laugh all you want but all these CS kids graduating with hundreds of thousands of debt. Let’s see how it all plays out. Everyone is in the denial stage.

Not when you attend a large state school on scholarship with a well respected CS program.

+1 but ITA that having $100K+ debt for a CS degree is not worth it, which is why DC is going in state flagship with merit.

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Anonymous wrote:There are engineers going back to school for CS degrees.

CS majors will still be in high demand and command good salaries. It doesn't necessarily have to be FAANG.

Even a CS graduate working for one of the many defense contractors in the DMV area will do well.

But as good as the last couple years? No.

again, still better than English majors, or most majors. Top paying jobs are all engineers.

“All” engineers? I am quite sure you’re wrong about that. I’d rather be a liberal arts major on track to be an MD at a major Wall Street bank (like my BIL now making 7 figures) than a CS major working on AI at a tech company.

Yup totally agree with this. Bankers are rainmakers even at middle market and boutique banks, MDs can make several million a year. With some notable exceptions, no engineer will do that on current income. On options and RSUs, perhaps - but then that’s the lottery ticket aspect. Pick the right momentum stage startup and it becomes a winner. I know plenty for him it happened but many more for whom it didn’t

Prob for bankers - burnout is high. Your 20s are lost to making pitch books on overnight and weekend wild goose chases. And so those who make it through that, many become insufferable in their 40s

IB is a miserable life. You sell your soul for $. With tech, not as much.

+100000

Lots of tech jobs are 9-5 with WFH

+1 I posted up thread.. my very smart DC wants work/life balance. DC sees our lives (we are in tech) - pays well, very flexible, lower stress, never travel for work. We are always there for the kids. DC told us recently that they hope to be able to have this kind of life when they have a family.

We could've gone up in the corporate world and make way more, but neither my spouse nor I are interested in that. We life our flexible, work/life balance.

Some people live to work, while others work to live. Tech isn't going anywhere. It will just morph.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are engineers going back to school for CS degrees.

CS majors will still be in high demand and command good salaries. It doesn't necessarily have to be FAANG.

Even a CS graduate working for one of the many defense contractors in the DMV area will do well.

But as good as the last couple years? No.

again, still better than English majors, or most majors. Top paying jobs are all engineers.

“All” engineers? I am quite sure you’re wrong about that. I’d rather be a liberal arts major on track to be an MD at a major Wall Street bank (like my BIL now making 7 figures) than a CS major working on AI at a tech company.

Yup totally agree with this. Bankers are rainmakers even at middle market and boutique banks, MDs can make several million a year. With some notable exceptions, no engineer will do that on current income. On options and RSUs, perhaps - but then that’s the lottery ticket aspect. Pick the right momentum stage startup and it becomes a winner. I know plenty for him it happened but many more for whom it didn’t

Prob for bankers - burnout is high. Your 20s are lost to making pitch books on overnight and weekend wild goose chases. And so those who make it through that, many become insufferable in their 40s

IB is a miserable life. You sell your soul for $. With tech, not as much.

+100000

Lots of tech jobs are 9-5 with WFH

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are engineers going back to school for CS degrees.

CS majors will still be in high demand and command good salaries. It doesn't necessarily have to be FAANG.

Even a CS graduate working for one of the many defense contractors in the DMV area will do well.

But as good as the last couple years? No.

again, still better than English majors, or most majors. Top paying jobs are all engineers.

“All” engineers? I am quite sure you’re wrong about that. I’d rather be a liberal arts major on track to be an MD at a major Wall Street bank (like my BIL now making 7 figures) than a CS major working on AI at a tech company.

Yup totally agree with this. Bankers are rainmakers even at middle market and boutique banks, MDs can make several million a year. With some notable exceptions, no engineer will do that on current income. On options and RSUs, perhaps - but then that’s the lottery ticket aspect. Pick the right momentum stage startup and it becomes a winner. I know plenty for him it happened but many more for whom it didn’t

Prob for bankers - burnout is high. Your 20s are lost to making pitch books on overnight and weekend wild goose chases. And so those who make it through that, many become insufferable in their 40s

IB is a miserable life. You sell your soul for $. With tech, not as much.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Am very involved in the tech ecosystem and live here in DMV. Folks I know in the valley mostly have not found jobs yet. The Meta folks are struggling to find new work.

AI will crush many job types but especially so in tech. AI coding is ready quite good.

A company I know laid off its entire 20 person QA team and replaced with engineers QAing their own code with LLMs

It’s coming very fast. Human brains mostly are not evolving. AI is evolving weekly.

I’ve seen the next generation versions (we are about 6 mos into the public side of this) and they are rapidly evolving.

I don’t mean the world is ending thing. But I do mean that many jobs that we are training what we think are to-be high salaried future college grads for simply won’t be there

Remember how we used to all look at so called White Working Class and say “why are they so angry?”

Now get ready for that with CS grads in 5 years or less. The number of jobs will start to shrink fast. Meanwhile kids graduating with $200k+ of debt from private universities who expected the lifestyle of 150k plus starting comp and way more with RSUs and stock.

I personally would not encourage my kids to go in as CS (plus it’s hard as hell to get admitted given competition)

We need more skilled trades like plumbing and electrical but the DCUM crowd and our peers look down on that work. Just wait til those jobs pay more than tech coding jobs

It’s coming.

Signed,
25 year Silicon Valley guy now living in DC

Telling DCUM crowd to eschew CS for plumbing and electrician work.

Yeah...right.

You missed the point. Laugh all you want but all these CS kids graduating with hundreds of thousands of debt. Let’s see how it all plays out. Everyone is in the denial stage.

Not when you attend a large state school on scholarship with a well respected CS program.

I agree with this. But that’s probably not the bulk of the CS grads. Also many 22 year olds who start at one salary level and progress in tech roles will get accustomed to that and be in for a surprised when we are oversupplied with engineers and CS majors. Less graduating debt helps but deep into 20s and 30s when people start to settle down, downward salary trajectory usually is associated with family and life instability.

Let’s hope not but it’s a major factor to watch. Having kids who have dual degrees or are cross functionally trained is going to be far more important.

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Anonymous wrote:We recently visited a college that is spending $225 million for a new Computer, Data and Information Sciences building. I don't think the sky is falling just yet.

Um, that’s what bubbles look like.

Exactly - yes let’s index to capex $$ that colleges allocated 5 years ago. The lost lagging indicator even is buildings on campus.

Second most lagging is jobs HBS grads take immediately after MBA. Was consulting and banking. Now mostly tech.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are engineers going back to school for CS degrees.

CS majors will still be in high demand and command good salaries. It doesn't necessarily have to be FAANG.

Even a CS graduate working for one of the many defense contractors in the DMV area will do well.

But as good as the last couple years? No.

again, still better than English majors, or most majors. Top paying jobs are all engineers.

“All” engineers? I am quite sure you’re wrong about that. I’d rather be a liberal arts major on track to be an MD at a major Wall Street bank (like my BIL now making 7 figures) than a CS major working on AI at a tech company.

Yup totally agree with this. Bankers are rainmakers even at middle market and boutique banks, MDs can make several million a year. With some notable exceptions, no engineer will do that on current income. On options and RSUs, perhaps - but then that’s the lottery ticket aspect. Pick the right momentum stage startup and it becomes a winner. I know plenty for him it happened but many more for whom it didn’t

Prob for bankers - burnout is high. Your 20s are lost to making pitch books on overnight and weekend wild goose chases. And so those who make it through that, many become insufferable in their 40s

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Anonymous wrote:Imagine other majors

+1 STEM is a much safer bet than humanities majors.

Absolutely! If the job market is bad for CS and engineers, it won’t be any better for history majors. Hate to say this. The amount of workload and difficulty between STEM and liberal arts/social studies majors is not even remotely comparable.

OP here. I’m absolutely NOT saying other majors are better or don’t major in CS. It just seems like this board is salivating over tech salaries and tech hiring rates from certain schools completely oblivious to the fact the data they are looking at has aged like milk.

NP. DS will be attending UMD as a CS major. The thought parents "salivating" over their child's career prospects is just weird. Don't think it's as widespread on this board as you believe. I would venture to guess that most hope for healthy and moderately happy members of society.

I just hope they have a functional planet and economy.

I wouldn't hang my hat on the hope that the market for CS will be better in 4-5 years. The fact that it's so hard to get into schools right now for CS is because there are too many seeking to get into the field. That same thing is going to happen when those students graduate and all try to get hired by the same places.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are engineers going back to school for CS degrees.

CS majors will still be in high demand and command good salaries. It doesn't necessarily have to be FAANG.

Even a CS graduate working for one of the many defense contractors in the DMV area will do well.

But as good as the last couple years? No.

again, still better than English majors, or most majors. Top paying jobs are all engineers.

“All” engineers? I am quite sure you’re wrong about that. I’d rather be a liberal arts major on track to be an MD at a major Wall Street bank (like my BIL now making 7 figures) than a CS major working on AI at a tech company.

Anonymous wrote:Layoffs are a bit like yawning. One person yawning can spark a contagion of yawns by others.

Most tech companies are doing fine, but once someone like Facebook/Meta broke the ice and announced layoffs, it gave other companies cover to do the same.

Which would be very relevant to a thread about FAANG share price but not terribly relevant to a thread about if recent past tech salaries will predict future entry level tech salaries.