Anonymous
03/31/2023 08:58
Subject: Re:Walls racist incident
Anonymous wrote:What do you mean you don't know what to think? Your own child possibly hasn't been forthcoming about any perceived issues. But people are telling you there are, and students have actually rallied together (not just the black students). Yet as a black person, you can't imagine a situation where black students might be treated differently, or at least feel like they are? If I were you, i wouldn't know what to think about the fact that my black child is out of touch with the tension and issues surrounding his fellow black peers at a majority non-black school. Even if he didn't experience anything personally. I'm sorry fi that sounds harsh, I don't meant to.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I'm not a Walls parent but I am a parent of a child waiting anxiously for tomorrow's lottery results with Walls at the top of the list. I have read this thread but I'm unclear as to why the kids walked out. Are they supporting and wanting the kids who took the video to be suspended or are they protesting the suspension? Or as someone else mentioned, is this part of a bigger issue?
Bigger issues..this incident was just the last straw. The upperclassmen are much more aware of everything. The 9th and 10th graders have been complaining about different standards and treatment for Black kids. I'm hoping this will lead to some real constructive dialogue and level setting. It was a large group of students that walked out NOT just Black kids. SWW has real self-advocacy now!
Can you please provide more information about the Black students’ perception that there are different standards of treatment? I’m a Black parent awaiting my son’s Walls’ decision tomorrow. Reports of poor treatment based on race is very concerning.
Some of the issues brought up by black students is that they’re not listened to in class as respectfully as their white peers, they re ideas are not listened to in group settings in the way white peers’ ideas are, etc.
I asked my 10th grader (black) about some of this in more detail this evening, specifically if they feel black students are treated differently than white students (that is what they have heard), and have you felt this way (I don't talk to teachers much, so no) and then there is a lot stirring around the baseball team specifically. Not once since my kid has been at Walls have they come home with any concerns/examples about being treated differently than white peers. I'm not really sure what to think about all of this.
Umm do you know any actual black people? Do you think they are all the same?
Anonymous
03/31/2023 08:55
Subject: Re:Walls racist incident
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:So the thing about white people and racism is that we often say or do things that are not intended to be racist but if a person of color feels uncomfortable or that what we said or did was racist, then intent doesn't matter. It is still racist. It still made the person uncomfortable whether we intended to or not. We should listen, learn and apologize without ifs and buts, justifications or excuses. Just because Cotton-eyed Joe was played at baseball games, that doesn't mean the song isn't offensive to people who know it's origins. So now that we know, we should be thankful to learn that it is offensive and listen to what that student's mother is explaining.
Also, claiming that the song was used for years in baseball doesn't make it okay. Lots of sports team even have names that are offensive. Maybe naming a team the Braves or Indians wasn't intended to be racist but it is offensive which is why the Redskins no longer use that name.
We all agree that this should be a learning opportunity. The point of debate seems to be whether the students are "horrible racists" that deserve significant consequences or bumbling teens who need to apologize, listen, and learn.
Do we, though? Do the posters saying "this is why white people leave DC" want to learn? What about the posters saying that black families that complain of racism should be sued into bankruptcy?
Don't pretend there's common ground where it doesn't exist. "We all hate racism! I just think *complaining* about it is the real problem. What if you make a [white] kid feel badly?"
Way to misrepresent what was said. Those comments are in response to things like the kids getting suspended, being called racist, and presumably having college admissions threatened.
Yeah, that's *exactly* what I said. You think black families should be sued into bankruptcy if they call someone racist. Guess they should know their place, eh? But way to make up something vaguely actionable at the end there that has never been substantiated to try to paper over the thread.
Misrepresenting the thread is saying "we all agree that this should be a learning opportunity," unless the lesson these posters are looking for is for black kids and antiracists to shut up.
I mean yes - if you publicly call someone a racist for *something that was not racist* then you might get sued. But primarily, the legal action would be against the school/DCPS for any discipline based on the false allegation. You seriously expect parents to accept their kids getting disciplined or expelled for false reasons?
There is nothing antiracist about making false or overblown accusations of racism that threaten severe consequences. You cannot solve racism like that.
Anonymous
03/31/2023 07:01
Subject: Re:Walls racist incident
Anonymous wrote:So the thing about white people and racism is that we often say or do things that are not intended to be racist but if a person of color feels uncomfortable or that what we said or did was racist, then intent doesn't matter. It is still racist. It still made the person uncomfortable whether we intended to or not. We should listen, learn and apologize without ifs and buts, justifications or excuses. Just because Cotton-eyed Joe was played at baseball games, that doesn't mean the song isn't offensive to people who know it's origins. So now that we know, we should be thankful to learn that it is offensive and listen to what that student's mother is explaining.
Also, claiming that the song was used for years in baseball doesn't make it okay. Lots of sports team even have names that are offensive. Maybe naming a team the Braves or Indians wasn't intended to be racist but it is offensive which is why the Redskins no longer use that name.
I bolded the part that makes people throw up their hands and move to a "good pyramid."
Intent matters in crime, and should matter in interpersonal relationships as well. We also hold juveniles to a lower standard than adults, because their brains are still developing. They simply can't navigate the racial minefield that is America like an adult. The nation is so diverse, culture moves so fast and the internet creates such an unforgiving environment, that the risk of being pilloried is just too high to engage with people unlike yourself. The only logical thing to do is retreat to the safety of others like yourself.
People can deny that's what is happening, but the segregation in schools isn't an accident. This is exactly the type of thing that gets people to move, even if they tell others, and themselves, other reasons.
Anonymous
03/31/2023 06:19
Subject: Re:Walls racist incident
Anonymous wrote:What do you mean you don't know what to think? Your own child possibly hasn't been forthcoming about any perceived issues. But people are telling you there are, and students have actually rallied together (not just the black students). Yet as a black person, you can't imagine a situation where black students might be treated differently, or at least feel like they are? If I were you, i wouldn't know what to think about the fact that my black child is out of touch with the tension and issues surrounding his fellow black peers at a majority non-black school. Even if he didn't experience anything personally. I'm sorry fi that sounds harsh, I don't meant to.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I'm not a Walls parent but I am a parent of a child waiting anxiously for tomorrow's lottery results with Walls at the top of the list. I have read this thread but I'm unclear as to why the kids walked out. Are they supporting and wanting the kids who took the video to be suspended or are they protesting the suspension? Or as someone else mentioned, is this part of a bigger issue?
Bigger issues..this incident was just the last straw. The upperclassmen are much more aware of everything. The 9th and 10th graders have been complaining about different standards and treatment for Black kids. I'm hoping this will lead to some real constructive dialogue and level setting. It was a large group of students that walked out NOT just Black kids. SWW has real self-advocacy now!
Can you please provide more information about the Black students’ perception that there are different standards of treatment? I’m a Black parent awaiting my son’s Walls’ decision tomorrow. Reports of poor treatment based on race is very concerning.
Some of the issues brought up by black students is that they’re not listened to in class as respectfully as their white peers, they re ideas are not listened to in group settings in the way white peers’ ideas are, etc.
I asked my 10th grader (black) about some of this in more detail this evening, specifically if they feel black students are treated differently than white students (that is what they have heard), and have you felt this way (I don't talk to teachers much, so no) and then there is a lot stirring around the baseball team specifically. Not once since my kid has been at Walls have they come home with any concerns/examples about being treated differently than white peers. I'm not really sure what to think about all of this.
I'm not even sure this is worth a response but FWIW it's worth, I'lll ignore all the parts about not knowing my kid and/being forthcoming because it could/could not be true and I'll take the my side because I know my kid better than internet stranger. What I will also say is that my other kid is an athlete and very much part of the bro culture so while I do not walk in his shoes everyday at school and feel how he is treated, I do hear him engage in the worst sterotypical bro talk that makes me cringe even as I tell him it's not appropriate and while we tell him constantly not to put anything on the internet that he could regret, he an immature 15 yo. So I will leave it with that I really don't know what to think and it really doesn't matter what you do.
Anonymous
03/30/2023 22:34
Subject: Re:Walls racist incident
What do you mean you don't know what to think? Your own child possibly hasn't been forthcoming about any perceived issues. But people are telling you there are, and students have actually rallied together (not just the black students). Yet as a black person, you can't imagine a situation where black students might be treated differently, or at least feel like they are? If I were you, i wouldn't know what to think about the fact that my black child is out of touch with the tension and issues surrounding his fellow black peers at a majority non-black school. Even if he didn't experience anything personally. I'm sorry fi that sounds harsh, I don't meant to.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I'm not a Walls parent but I am a parent of a child waiting anxiously for tomorrow's lottery results with Walls at the top of the list. I have read this thread but I'm unclear as to why the kids walked out. Are they supporting and wanting the kids who took the video to be suspended or are they protesting the suspension? Or as someone else mentioned, is this part of a bigger issue?
Bigger issues..this incident was just the last straw. The upperclassmen are much more aware of everything. The 9th and 10th graders have been complaining about different standards and treatment for Black kids. I'm hoping this will lead to some real constructive dialogue and level setting. It was a large group of students that walked out NOT just Black kids. SWW has real self-advocacy now!
Can you please provide more information about the Black students’ perception that there are different standards of treatment? I’m a Black parent awaiting my son’s Walls’ decision tomorrow. Reports of poor treatment based on race is very concerning.
Some of the issues brought up by black students is that they’re not listened to in class as respectfully as their white peers, they re ideas are not listened to in group settings in the way white peers’ ideas are, etc.
I asked my 10th grader (black) about some of this in more detail this evening, specifically if they feel black students are treated differently than white students (that is what they have heard), and have you felt this way (I don't talk to teachers much, so no) and then there is a lot stirring around the baseball team specifically. Not once since my kid has been at Walls have they come home with any concerns/examples about being treated differently than white peers. I'm not really sure what to think about all of this.
Anonymous
03/30/2023 22:24
Subject: Re:Walls racist incident
Banneker was a great experience for my oldest son who is now in college. Good luck!Anonymous wrote:If I have Walls as my first choice before, but I want it to be Banneker now, can I decline Walls and get into our #2?
Anonymous
03/30/2023 22:21
Subject: Re:Walls racist incident
I look forward to the day when white people actually do their part to dismantle systematic racism and other white people won't have to lecture them. In the meantime, we all know white people love to lecture white people or anyone else.
Anonymous
03/30/2023 22:07
Subject: Re:Walls racist incident
Anonymous wrote:So the thing about white people and racism is that we often say or do things that are not intended to be racist but if a person of color feels uncomfortable or that what we said or did was racist, then intent doesn't matter. It is still racist. It still made the person uncomfortable whether we intended to or not. We should listen, learn and apologize without ifs and buts, justifications or excuses. Just because Cotton-eyed Joe was played at baseball games, that doesn't mean the song isn't offensive to people who know it's origins. So now that we know, we should be thankful to learn that it is offensive and listen to what that student's mother is explaining.
Also, claiming that the song was used for years in baseball doesn't make it okay. Lots of sports team even have names that are offensive. Maybe naming a team the Braves or Indians wasn't intended to be racist but it is offensive which is why the Redskins no longer use that name.
I look forward to the day when white people move past lecturing other white people.
Anonymous
03/30/2023 21:45
Subject: Re:Walls racist incident
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:So the thing about white people and racism is that we often say or do things that are not intended to be racist but if a person of color feels uncomfortable or that what we said or did was racist, then intent doesn't matter. It is still racist. It still made the person uncomfortable whether we intended to or not. We should listen, learn and apologize without ifs and buts, justifications or excuses. Just because Cotton-eyed Joe was played at baseball games, that doesn't mean the song isn't offensive to people who know it's origins. So now that we know, we should be thankful to learn that it is offensive and listen to what that student's mother is explaining.
Also, claiming that the song was used for years in baseball doesn't make it okay. Lots of sports team even have names that are offensive. Maybe naming a team the Braves or Indians wasn't intended to be racist but it is offensive which is why the Redskins no longer use that name.
We all agree that this should be a learning opportunity. The point of debate seems to be whether the students are "horrible racists" that deserve significant consequences or bumbling teens who need to apologize, listen, and learn.
Do we, though? Do the posters saying "this is why white people leave DC" want to learn? What about the posters saying that black families that complain of racism should be sued into bankruptcy?
Don't pretend there's common ground where it doesn't exist. "We all hate racism! I just think *complaining* about it is the real problem. What if you make a [white] kid feel badly?"
Way to misrepresent what was said. Those comments are in response to things like the kids getting suspended, being called racist, and presumably having college admissions threatened.
Yeah, that's *exactly* what I said. You think black families should be sued into bankruptcy if they call someone racist. Guess they should know their place, eh? But way to make up something vaguely actionable at the end there that has never been substantiated to try to paper over the thread.
Misrepresenting the thread is saying "we all agree that this should be a learning opportunity," unless the lesson these posters are looking for is for black kids and antiracists to shut up.
Anonymous
03/30/2023 21:44
Subject: Re:Walls racist incident
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:So the thing about white people and racism is that we often say or do things that are not intended to be racist but if a person of color feels uncomfortable or that what we said or did was racist, then intent doesn't matter. It is still racist. It still made the person uncomfortable whether we intended to or not. We should listen, learn and apologize without ifs and buts, justifications or excuses. Just because Cotton-eyed Joe was played at baseball games, that doesn't mean the song isn't offensive to people who know it's origins. So now that we know, we should be thankful to learn that it is offensive and listen to what that student's mother is explaining.
Also, claiming that the song was used for years in baseball doesn't make it okay. Lots of sports team even have names that are offensive. Maybe naming a team the Braves or Indians wasn't intended to be racist but it is offensive which is why the Redskins no longer use that name.
Last spring there was a school picnic being organized at the MS my DC attends and a discussion on the school listserv ensued regarding the negative connotation of that word for black people. Fortunately, the discourse stayed civil and it was a good learning experience for all.
Someone tell that to the Roots Picnic performers! https://www.therootspicnic.com/
I’m glad the conversation was civil but still ….
Anonymous
03/30/2023 21:42
Subject: Re:Walls racist incident
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:So the thing about white people and racism is that we often say or do things that are not intended to be racist but if a person of color feels uncomfortable or that what we said or did was racist, then intent doesn't matter. It is still racist. It still made the person uncomfortable whether we intended to or not. We should listen, learn and apologize without ifs and buts, justifications or excuses. Just because Cotton-eyed Joe was played at baseball games, that doesn't mean the song isn't offensive to people who know it's origins. So now that we know, we should be thankful to learn that it is offensive and listen to what that student's mother is explaining.
Also, claiming that the song was used for years in baseball doesn't make it okay. Lots of sports team even have names that are offensive. Maybe naming a team the Braves or Indians wasn't intended to be racist but it is offensive which is why the Redskins no longer use that name.
We all agree that this should be a learning opportunity. The point of debate seems to be whether the students are "horrible racists" that deserve significant consequences or bumbling teens who need to apologize, listen, and learn.
Do we, though? Do the posters saying "this is why white people leave DC" want to learn? What about the posters saying that black families that complain of racism should be sued into bankruptcy?
Don't pretend there's common ground where it doesn't exist. "We all hate racism! I just think *complaining* about it is the real problem. What if you make a [white] kid feel badly?"
Way to misrepresent what was said. Those comments are in response to things like the kids getting suspended, being called racist, and presumably having college admissions threatened.
Anonymous
03/30/2023 21:38
Subject: Re:Walls racist incident
Anonymous wrote:So the thing about white people and racism is that we often say or do things that are not intended to be racist but if a person of color feels uncomfortable or that what we said or did was racist, then intent doesn't matter. It is still racist. It still made the person uncomfortable whether we intended to or not. We should listen, learn and apologize without ifs and buts, justifications or excuses. Just because Cotton-eyed Joe was played at baseball games, that doesn't mean the song isn't offensive to people who know it's origins. So now that we know, we should be thankful to learn that it is offensive and listen to what that student's mother is explaining.
Also, claiming that the song was used for years in baseball doesn't make it okay. Lots of sports team even have names that are offensive. Maybe naming a team the Braves or Indians wasn't intended to be racist but it is offensive which is why the Redskins no longer use that name.
Last spring there was a school picnic being organized at the MS my DC attends and a discussion on the school listserv ensued regarding the negative connotation of that word for black people. Fortunately, the discourse stayed civil and it was a good learning experience for all.
Anonymous
03/30/2023 21:31
Subject: Re:Walls racist incident
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:So the thing about white people and racism is that we often say or do things that are not intended to be racist but if a person of color feels uncomfortable or that what we said or did was racist, then intent doesn't matter. It is still racist. It still made the person uncomfortable whether we intended to or not. We should listen, learn and apologize without ifs and buts, justifications or excuses. Just because Cotton-eyed Joe was played at baseball games, that doesn't mean the song isn't offensive to people who know it's origins. So now that we know, we should be thankful to learn that it is offensive and listen to what that student's mother is explaining.
Also, claiming that the song was used for years in baseball doesn't make it okay. Lots of sports team even have names that are offensive. Maybe naming a team the Braves or Indians wasn't intended to be racist but it is offensive which is why the Redskins no longer use that name.
We all agree that this should be a learning opportunity. The point of debate seems to be whether the students are "horrible racists" that deserve significant consequences or bumbling teens who need to apologize, listen, and learn.
Do we, though? Do the posters saying "this is why white people leave DC" want to learn? What about the posters saying that black families that complain of racism should be sued into bankruptcy?
Don't pretend there's common ground where it doesn't exist. "We all hate racism! I just think *complaining* about it is the real problem. What if you make a [white] kid feel badly?"
Anonymous
03/30/2023 21:26
Subject: Re:Walls racist incident
Anonymous wrote:So the thing about white people and racism is that we often say or do things that are not intended to be racist but if a person of color feels uncomfortable or that what we said or did was racist, then intent doesn't matter. It is still racist. It still made the person uncomfortable whether we intended to or not. We should listen, learn and apologize without ifs and buts, justifications or excuses. Just because Cotton-eyed Joe was played at baseball games, that doesn't mean the song isn't offensive to people who know it's origins. So now that we know, we should be thankful to learn that it is offensive and listen to what that student's mother is explaining.
Also, claiming that the song was used for years in baseball doesn't make it okay. Lots of sports team even have names that are offensive. Maybe naming a team the Braves or Indians wasn't intended to be racist but it is offensive which is why the Redskins no longer use that name.
We all agree that this should be a learning opportunity. The point of debate seems to be whether the students are "horrible racists" that deserve significant consequences or bumbling teens who need to apologize, listen, and learn.
Anonymous
03/30/2023 21:09
Subject: Re:Walls racist incident
Anonymous wrote:If I have Walls as my first choice before, but I want it to be Banneker now, can I decline Walls and get into our #2?
No can do..if you aren't admitted to SWW than it goes to #2. I wouldn't let this bother me. My kid and her friends called complaining about how expensive lunch was today. They have already moved on. Seems to be a bigger deal for some parents than the kids...