Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IB course sequences are needlessly complicated. The math makes little sense. And you better know that your student wants to get the IB Diploma by the time 7th grade is ending.

IB two-year courses require exams after the second year. Far from ideal.

IB is more expensive.

Students can take IB courses à la carte, but the universities like to see the IB Diploma.

I believe Robinson, Marshall, and South Lakes have the best IB Diploma rate. At Robinson, in good years, the school has between 18 and 20 percent of the students earn the IB Diploma. That means, at one of the best performing schools, 4 out of 5 students don't earn the IB Diploma. Even among the students who do earn the Diploma, I would guess that half of those would have been OK with AP. In other words, they did IB because it was what was there, not because they loved it. The number of true IB fans is pretty small.

At this point it is inertia, a small number of IB advocates, and School Board stubbornness that prevents FCPS from reconsidering how IB is provided in the county.

The county does not have to provide two advanced academic programs at the high school level. AP is straightforward, has a long history and understanding across the country, and cost less. It should be the choice for all FCPS high schools.

I would vote for a School Board candidate that endorsed this common sense.

At a minimum, FCPS should survey the parents across the IB schools to see if they want to continue the program. The problem with surveying parents is that they won't understand how convoluted IB is until their students are in immersed in it.

I purposefully moved to Robinson for the IB program. I think it's higher quality and more integrative than AP.

+1. My spouse earned the IB diploma (overseas) so we sought it out.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IB course sequences are needlessly complicated. The math makes little sense. And you better know that your student wants to get the IB Diploma by the time 7th grade is ending.

IB two-year courses require exams after the second year. Far from ideal.

IB is more expensive.

Students can take IB courses à la carte, but the universities like to see the IB Diploma.

I believe Robinson, Marshall, and South Lakes have the best IB Diploma rate. At Robinson, in good years, the school has between 18 and 20 percent of the students earn the IB Diploma. That means, at one of the best performing schools, 4 out of 5 students don't earn the IB Diploma. Even among the students who do earn the Diploma, I would guess that half of those would have been OK with AP. In other words, they did IB because it was what was there, not because they loved it. The number of true IB fans is pretty small.

At this point it is inertia, a small number of IB advocates, and School Board stubbornness that prevents FCPS from reconsidering how IB is provided in the county.

The county does not have to provide two advanced academic programs at the high school level. AP is straightforward, has a long history and understanding across the country, and cost less. It should be the choice for all FCPS high schools.

I would vote for a School Board candidate that endorsed this common sense.

At a minimum, FCPS should survey the parents across the IB schools to see if they want to continue the program. The problem with surveying parents is that they won't understand how convoluted IB is until their students are in immersed in it.

I purposefully moved to Robinson for the IB program. I think it's higher quality and more integrative than AP.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is an RMIB alum. IB should only be offered to very bright kids with a lot of support.

IB in a academically lagging school is absolutely terrible idea and a sure way to torpedo the future of struggling students.

Robinson isn't an academically lagging school, despite the handwringing on this thread. That said, the IB diploma is still a niche diploma, the majority of students are not aiming for it.

Which is why this makes no sense. A student can take one AP class and get college credit for that class. IB on the other hand is a multi year slog that most students don't want.

Robinson already punches below its weight (given the wealth in the Fairfax Station/Clifton area) due to not having a MS AAP center and the IB focus.

It's hard to see how stripping the school of some of its remaining AP classes will help. It would be better to reconsider the need for IB at all. Replacing IB with AP would both reduce the number of pupil placements and help address any scheduling problems associated with having both AP and IB (note, though, that W-L in Arlington is smaller than Robinson and appears to pull it off).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Regardless of how Robinson ended up with IB in the first place, it would make sense to reassess current community preferences (and regardless of whether a particular IB teacher or parent at Robinson would like to maintain the status quo and/or eliminate AP courses there). We already know that we pay more for IB because the IBO requires dedicated resources at each school that offers the IB diploma.

Why? Do we poll the community on school start time, class sizes, lunch offerings, elective options, or after school offerings? No. Can you imagine the mess if every few years they had to poll parents and then change course offerings based on what was popular with that particular crowd?

Look, I'm not an IB fan (i think it's way too much work for math teachers to grade 20 page papers on top of teaching advanced concepts) but the thought of changing programs because this year's families don't like it seems ridiculous. There are AP options within 5 minutes from Robinson.

If they were intending to eliminate lunch offerings or electives, it would make perfect sense to solicit input from students and their families. Likewise, if they are now undertaking to curtail the number of AP courses, including in some core areas, it would be an opportune time to find out whether the community would prefer more AP and less IB.


Any good organization tries to figure out what is working well and what is not working well, and any good business tries to assess why it might be losing market share. FCPS strenuously resists any such outreach, except when it can ignore the results. They never want to admit what they once thought might be preferable no longer is preferable, much less that they may have made a mistake in the first place. But the fact that FCPS stopped dead in its tracks by the mid-00s in terms of converting AP schools to IB, after an initial spate of conversations in the late 90s and early 00s, suggests they already know the county over-invested in IB.

They are dropping ONE out of FOUR AP classes. This isn't a full AP program getting sliced to 2 courses. They have never had many AP classes. ONE class is going away because it has an identical IB offering. No one is changing the whole landscape at Robinson.

+1,000

THIS, people. It's not like Robinson was a huge AP powerhouse or had a big stable of AP offerings. Good grief. ONE course is being dropped. I think some reactions here are not actually about "dropping AP" but actually are about a fear of IB, which comes from either not understanding how IB works, or being afraid it's just "too much work!" for kids. Guess what? It's great prep for college level work.

IB is a lot of busy work and the course sequences are overly complicated, but it’s a fair point that Robinson has been screwed for a long time, not just recently.

Based on what you said you have no idea what IB is. For now, my Robinson IB diploma student has received several admissions including Purdue Engineering, UMD College Park and UVA. IB diploma is a program that college AOs knows its value. It's not for everyone so quit trashing it just because you cannot handle it.

“IB diploma is a program that college AOs know its value”?

What kind of word salad is this?

Anonymous wrote:The IB program doesn’t benefit enough kids to justify keeping it at 8 schools where the IB diploma rate ranges from 2% to 20%. They should find out where there’s the most support among parents and adjust so there are at most 2 IB programs.

Anonymous wrote:IB course sequences are needlessly complicated. The math makes little sense. And you better know that your student wants to get the IB Diploma by the time 7th grade is ending.

IB two-year courses require exams after the second year. Far from ideal.

IB is more expensive.

Students can take IB courses à la carte, but the universities like to see the IB Diploma.

I believe Robinson, Marshall, and South Lakes have the best IB Diploma rate. At Robinson, in good years, the school has between 18 and 20 percent of the students earn the IB Diploma. That means, at one of the best performing schools, 4 out of 5 students don't earn the IB Diploma. Even among the students who do earn the Diploma, I would guess that half of those would have been OK with AP. In other words, they did IB because it was what was there, not because they loved it. The number of true IB fans is pretty small.

At this point it is inertia, a small number of IB advocates, and School Board stubbornness that prevents FCPS from reconsidering how IB is provided in the county.

The county does not have to provide two advanced academic programs at the high school level. AP is straightforward, has a long history and understanding across the country, and cost less. It should be the choice for all FCPS high schools.

I would vote for a School Board candidate that endorsed this common sense.

At a minimum, FCPS should survey the parents across the IB schools to see if they want to continue the program. The problem with surveying parents is that they won't understand how convoluted IB is until their students are in immersed in it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Regardless of how Robinson ended up with IB in the first place, it would make sense to reassess current community preferences (and regardless of whether a particular IB teacher or parent at Robinson would like to maintain the status quo and/or eliminate AP courses there). We already know that we pay more for IB because the IBO requires dedicated resources at each school that offers the IB diploma.

Why? Do we poll the community on school start time, class sizes, lunch offerings, elective options, or after school offerings? No. Can you imagine the mess if every few years they had to poll parents and then change course offerings based on what was popular with that particular crowd?

Look, I'm not an IB fan (i think it's way too much work for math teachers to grade 20 page papers on top of teaching advanced concepts) but the thought of changing programs because this year's families don't like it seems ridiculous. There are AP options within 5 minutes from Robinson.

If they were intending to eliminate lunch offerings or electives, it would make perfect sense to solicit input from students and their families. Likewise, if they are now undertaking to curtail the number of AP courses, including in some core areas, it would be an opportune time to find out whether the community would prefer more AP and less IB.


Any good organization tries to figure out what is working well and what is not working well, and any good business tries to assess why it might be losing market share. FCPS strenuously resists any such outreach, except when it can ignore the results. They never want to admit what they once thought might be preferable no longer is preferable, much less that they may have made a mistake in the first place. But the fact that FCPS stopped dead in its tracks by the mid-00s in terms of converting AP schools to IB, after an initial spate of conversations in the late 90s and early 00s, suggests they already know the county over-invested in IB.

They are dropping ONE out of FOUR AP classes. This isn't a full AP program getting sliced to 2 courses. They have never had many AP classes. ONE class is going away because it has an identical IB offering. No one is changing the whole landscape at Robinson.

+1,000

THIS, people. It's not like Robinson was a huge AP powerhouse or had a big stable of AP offerings. Good grief. ONE course is being dropped. I think some reactions here are not actually about "dropping AP" but actually are about a fear of IB, which comes from either not understanding how IB works, or being afraid it's just "too much work!" for kids. Guess what? It's great prep for college level work.

IB is a lot of busy work and the course sequences are overly complicated, but it’s a fair point that Robinson has been screwed for a long time, not just recently.

Based on what you said you have no idea what IB is. For now, my Robinson IB diploma student has received several admissions including Purdue Engineering, UMD College Park and UVA. IB diploma is a program that college AOs knows its value. It's not for everyone so quit trashing it just because you cannot handle it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Regardless of how Robinson ended up with IB in the first place, it would make sense to reassess current community preferences (and regardless of whether a particular IB teacher or parent at Robinson would like to maintain the status quo and/or eliminate AP courses there). We already know that we pay more for IB because the IBO requires dedicated resources at each school that offers the IB diploma.

Why? Do we poll the community on school start time, class sizes, lunch offerings, elective options, or after school offerings? No. Can you imagine the mess if every few years they had to poll parents and then change course offerings based on what was popular with that particular crowd?

Look, I'm not an IB fan (i think it's way too much work for math teachers to grade 20 page papers on top of teaching advanced concepts) but the thought of changing programs because this year's families don't like it seems ridiculous. There are AP options within 5 minutes from Robinson.

If they were intending to eliminate lunch offerings or electives, it would make perfect sense to solicit input from students and their families. Likewise, if they are now undertaking to curtail the number of AP courses, including in some core areas, it would be an opportune time to find out whether the community would prefer more AP and less IB.


Any good organization tries to figure out what is working well and what is not working well, and any good business tries to assess why it might be losing market share. FCPS strenuously resists any such outreach, except when it can ignore the results. They never want to admit what they once thought might be preferable no longer is preferable, much less that they may have made a mistake in the first place. But the fact that FCPS stopped dead in its tracks by the mid-00s in terms of converting AP schools to IB, after an initial spate of conversations in the late 90s and early 00s, suggests they already know the county over-invested in IB.

They are dropping ONE out of FOUR AP classes. This isn't a full AP program getting sliced to 2 courses. They have never had many AP classes. ONE class is going away because it has an identical IB offering. No one is changing the whole landscape at Robinson.

+1,000

THIS, people. It's not like Robinson was a huge AP powerhouse or had a big stable of AP offerings. Good grief. ONE course is being dropped. I think some reactions here are not actually about "dropping AP" but actually are about a fear of IB, which comes from either not understanding how IB works, or being afraid it's just "too much work!" for kids. Guess what? It's great prep for college level work.

IB is a lot of busy work and the course sequences are overly complicated, but it’s a fair point that Robinson has been screwed for a long time, not just recently.

Based on what you said you have no idea what IB is. For now, my Robinson IB diploma student has received several admissions including Purdue Engineering, UMD College Park and UVA. IB diploma is a program that college AOs knows its value. It's not for everyone so quit trashing it just because you cannot handle it.

And how many college credits they they get vs the number they would have had with a heavy AP schedule

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Regardless of how Robinson ended up with IB in the first place, it would make sense to reassess current community preferences (and regardless of whether a particular IB teacher or parent at Robinson would like to maintain the status quo and/or eliminate AP courses there). We already know that we pay more for IB because the IBO requires dedicated resources at each school that offers the IB diploma.

Why? Do we poll the community on school start time, class sizes, lunch offerings, elective options, or after school offerings? No. Can you imagine the mess if every few years they had to poll parents and then change course offerings based on what was popular with that particular crowd?

Look, I'm not an IB fan (i think it's way too much work for math teachers to grade 20 page papers on top of teaching advanced concepts) but the thought of changing programs because this year's families don't like it seems ridiculous. There are AP options within 5 minutes from Robinson.

If they were intending to eliminate lunch offerings or electives, it would make perfect sense to solicit input from students and their families. Likewise, if they are now undertaking to curtail the number of AP courses, including in some core areas, it would be an opportune time to find out whether the community would prefer more AP and less IB.


Any good organization tries to figure out what is working well and what is not working well, and any good business tries to assess why it might be losing market share. FCPS strenuously resists any such outreach, except when it can ignore the results. They never want to admit what they once thought might be preferable no longer is preferable, much less that they may have made a mistake in the first place. But the fact that FCPS stopped dead in its tracks by the mid-00s in terms of converting AP schools to IB, after an initial spate of conversations in the late 90s and early 00s, suggests they already know the county over-invested in IB.

They are dropping ONE out of FOUR AP classes. This isn't a full AP program getting sliced to 2 courses. They have never had many AP classes. ONE class is going away because it has an identical IB offering. No one is changing the whole landscape at Robinson.

+1,000

THIS, people. It's not like Robinson was a huge AP powerhouse or had a big stable of AP offerings. Good grief. ONE course is being dropped. I think some reactions here are not actually about "dropping AP" but actually are about a fear of IB, which comes from either not understanding how IB works, or being afraid it's just "too much work!" for kids. Guess what? It's great prep for college level work.

IB is a lot of busy work and the course sequences are overly complicated, but it’s a fair point that Robinson has been screwed for a long time, not just recently.

Based on what you said you have no idea what IB is. For now, my Robinson IB diploma student has received several admissions including Purdue Engineering, UMD College Park and UVA. IB diploma is a program that college AOs knows its value. It's not for everyone so quit trashing it just because you cannot handle it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Regardless of how Robinson ended up with IB in the first place, it would make sense to reassess current community preferences (and regardless of whether a particular IB teacher or parent at Robinson would like to maintain the status quo and/or eliminate AP courses there). We already know that we pay more for IB because the IBO requires dedicated resources at each school that offers the IB diploma.

Why? Do we poll the community on school start time, class sizes, lunch offerings, elective options, or after school offerings? No. Can you imagine the mess if every few years they had to poll parents and then change course offerings based on what was popular with that particular crowd?

Look, I'm not an IB fan (i think it's way too much work for math teachers to grade 20 page papers on top of teaching advanced concepts) but the thought of changing programs because this year's families don't like it seems ridiculous. There are AP options within 5 minutes from Robinson.

If they were intending to eliminate lunch offerings or electives, it would make perfect sense to solicit input from students and their families. Likewise, if they are now undertaking to curtail the number of AP courses, including in some core areas, it would be an opportune time to find out whether the community would prefer more AP and less IB.


Any good organization tries to figure out what is working well and what is not working well, and any good business tries to assess why it might be losing market share. FCPS strenuously resists any such outreach, except when it can ignore the results. They never want to admit what they once thought might be preferable no longer is preferable, much less that they may have made a mistake in the first place. But the fact that FCPS stopped dead in its tracks by the mid-00s in terms of converting AP schools to IB, after an initial spate of conversations in the late 90s and early 00s, suggests they already know the county over-invested in IB.

They are dropping ONE out of FOUR AP classes. This isn't a full AP program getting sliced to 2 courses. They have never had many AP classes. ONE class is going away because it has an identical IB offering. No one is changing the whole landscape at Robinson.

+1,000

THIS, people. It's not like Robinson was a huge AP powerhouse or had a big stable of AP offerings. Good grief. ONE course is being dropped. I think some reactions here are not actually about "dropping AP" but actually are about a fear of IB, which comes from either not understanding how IB works, or being afraid it's just "too much work!" for kids. Guess what? It's great prep for college level work.

IB is a lot of busy work and the course sequences are overly complicated, but it’s a fair point that Robinson has been screwed for a long time, not just recently.

Based on what you said you have no idea what IB is. For now, my Robinson IB diploma student has received several admissions including Purdue Engineering, UMD College Park and UVA. IB diploma is a program that college AOs knows its value. It's not for everyone so quit trashing it just because you cannot handle it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Regardless of how Robinson ended up with IB in the first place, it would make sense to reassess current community preferences (and regardless of whether a particular IB teacher or parent at Robinson would like to maintain the status quo and/or eliminate AP courses there). We already know that we pay more for IB because the IBO requires dedicated resources at each school that offers the IB diploma.

Why? Do we poll the community on school start time, class sizes, lunch offerings, elective options, or after school offerings? No. Can you imagine the mess if every few years they had to poll parents and then change course offerings based on what was popular with that particular crowd?

Look, I'm not an IB fan (i think it's way too much work for math teachers to grade 20 page papers on top of teaching advanced concepts) but the thought of changing programs because this year's families don't like it seems ridiculous. There are AP options within 5 minutes from Robinson.

If they were intending to eliminate lunch offerings or electives, it would make perfect sense to solicit input from students and their families. Likewise, if they are now undertaking to curtail the number of AP courses, including in some core areas, it would be an opportune time to find out whether the community would prefer more AP and less IB.


Any good organization tries to figure out what is working well and what is not working well, and any good business tries to assess why it might be losing market share. FCPS strenuously resists any such outreach, except when it can ignore the results. They never want to admit what they once thought might be preferable no longer is preferable, much less that they may have made a mistake in the first place. But the fact that FCPS stopped dead in its tracks by the mid-00s in terms of converting AP schools to IB, after an initial spate of conversations in the late 90s and early 00s, suggests they already know the county over-invested in IB.

They are dropping ONE out of FOUR AP classes. This isn't a full AP program getting sliced to 2 courses. They have never had many AP classes. ONE class is going away because it has an identical IB offering. No one is changing the whole landscape at Robinson.

+1,000

THIS, people. It's not like Robinson was a huge AP powerhouse or had a big stable of AP offerings. Good grief. ONE course is being dropped. I think some reactions here are not actually about "dropping AP" but actually are about a fear of IB, which comes from either not understanding how IB works, or being afraid it's just "too much work!" for kids. Guess what? It's great prep for college level work.

IB is a lot of busy work and the course sequences are overly complicated, but it’s a fair point that Robinson has been screwed for a long time, not just recently.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Regardless of how Robinson ended up with IB in the first place, it would make sense to reassess current community preferences (and regardless of whether a particular IB teacher or parent at Robinson would like to maintain the status quo and/or eliminate AP courses there). We already know that we pay more for IB because the IBO requires dedicated resources at each school that offers the IB diploma.

Why? Do we poll the community on school start time, class sizes, lunch offerings, elective options, or after school offerings? No. Can you imagine the mess if every few years they had to poll parents and then change course offerings based on what was popular with that particular crowd?

Look, I'm not an IB fan (i think it's way too much work for math teachers to grade 20 page papers on top of teaching advanced concepts) but the thought of changing programs because this year's families don't like it seems ridiculous. There are AP options within 5 minutes from Robinson.

If they were intending to eliminate lunch offerings or electives, it would make perfect sense to solicit input from students and their families. Likewise, if they are now undertaking to curtail the number of AP courses, including in some core areas, it would be an opportune time to find out whether the community would prefer more AP and less IB.


Any good organization tries to figure out what is working well and what is not working well, and any good business tries to assess why it might be losing market share. FCPS strenuously resists any such outreach, except when it can ignore the results. They never want to admit what they once thought might be preferable no longer is preferable, much less that they may have made a mistake in the first place. But the fact that FCPS stopped dead in its tracks by the mid-00s in terms of converting AP schools to IB, after an initial spate of conversations in the late 90s and early 00s, suggests they already know the county over-invested in IB.

They are dropping ONE out of FOUR AP classes. This isn't a full AP program getting sliced to 2 courses. They have never had many AP classes. ONE class is going away because it has an identical IB offering. No one is changing the whole landscape at Robinson.

+1,000

THIS, people. It's not like Robinson was a huge AP powerhouse or had a big stable of AP offerings. Good grief. ONE course is being dropped. I think some reactions here are not actually about "dropping AP" but actually are about a fear of IB, which comes from either not understanding how IB works, or being afraid it's just "too much work!" for kids. Guess what? It's great prep for college level work.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Regardless of how Robinson ended up with IB in the first place, it would make sense to reassess current community preferences (and regardless of whether a particular IB teacher or parent at Robinson would like to maintain the status quo and/or eliminate AP courses there). We already know that we pay more for IB because the IBO requires dedicated resources at each school that offers the IB diploma.

Why? Do we poll the community on school start time, class sizes, lunch offerings, elective options, or after school offerings? No. Can you imagine the mess if every few years they had to poll parents and then change course offerings based on what was popular with that particular crowd?

Look, I'm not an IB fan (i think it's way too much work for math teachers to grade 20 page papers on top of teaching advanced concepts) but the thought of changing programs because this year's families don't like it seems ridiculous. There are AP options within 5 minutes from Robinson.

If they were intending to eliminate lunch offerings or electives, it would make perfect sense to solicit input from students and their families. Likewise, if they are now undertaking to curtail the number of AP courses, including in some core areas, it would be an opportune time to find out whether the community would prefer more AP and less IB.

Any good organization tries to figure out what is working well and what is not working well, and any good business tries to assess why it might be losing market share. FCPS strenuously resists any such outreach, except when it can ignore the results. They never want to admit what they once thought might be preferable no longer is preferable, much less that they may have made a mistake in the first place. But the fact that FCPS stopped dead in its tracks by the mid-00s in terms of converting AP schools to IB, after an initial spate of conversations in the late 90s and early 00s, suggests they already know the county over-invested in IB.

They are dropping ONE out of FOUR AP classes. This isn't a full AP program getting sliced to 2 courses. They have never had many AP classes. ONE class is going away because it has an identical IB offering. No one is changing the whole landscape at Robinson.