This thread is incredibly sad to me and not because of the child but because of the responses from grown adult woman who breed. I'm saddened. What is deemed as an "unacceptable life" to many of you ladies. I have a friend born without arms and they lead a very happy and fulfilled life, great job, loves and volunteers with handicap dogs and animals. They want to be here and are thrilled their mother didn't abort them.

I'm sad for humanity.

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Anonymous wrote:My ten year old cousin has Downs. Reading these comments makes me wonder what some of you really think about her when you see her walking down the street.

Oh please. I have a cousin with Down Syndrome. She is now 38 and she's always been a normal part of our family. I still would have leaned heavily towards terminating my own pregnancy if the baby was diagnosed with Down Syndrome.

Is it a baby or a fetus?

Fetus, unborn baby, parasite, I’m not picky about terminology.

Yikes.

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't even have a kid missing a finger let alone a whole limb. wtf

Why?

Anonymous wrote:I wonder how many of you would opt for euthanasia (if it were available) if your child had a brain injury…as in brilliant Johnny took a bad fall from his bike, and his IQ drops from potential-Harvard lawyer to someone who can only have a simple job. I mean he won’t have the intellectual abilities of the limbless child (who we’ve already decided is a no-go). I guess what I’m trying to figure out is where will you be drawing the line? Hearing all this about what makes a child fit to live…Johnny is now going to use up financial resources that your second high IQ child could use for law school…do you really want to tell Sally no if Johnny’s highest career aspiration is to be a grocery bagger? I mean he costs a lot of money with no return on investment! The horror!

Really, this is how some of you sound.

Interesting that you say that. Because to me, it's about my loved one's quality of life. Not my own (and I don't say that lightly. I have an adult non-verbal/non-communicative son with autism). My younger son has long told me that if he ever ends up paralyzed (quadriplegic, for example), he just wants to die. I chalked it up to his youth. But he has consistently maintained this outlook. He's a young adult now. If (god forbid) anything horrific happens to him, like a persistent vegetative state or significant paralysis, I respect his decision to remove life support. And if patient-assisted suicide were available, and he really believed that was his best option, I would support him in that too. None of us knows the potential hell of certain disabilities. Some manage great, and I deeply admire their strength and attitude. But some people just aren't capable of finding meaning in their own lives when they have been permanently disabled like that.

I had a classmate who was born without one arm, in a country where people are generally quite hostile towards the disabled. He had such a pleasant personality though and had a lot of friends, nobody has ever bullied him. He went to college, became an accountant, got married and has 2 children. So it could be ok without one arm, much more difficult without a leg or both arms.

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Anonymous wrote:I would terminate. Life is hard. Life is so much harder for anyone with a handicap. It's not done abstract concept - it is what it is. All you fools in denial about how wonderful it is to life without limbs are nuts. I'd like to see you go without using arms and legs for a day. Unsure why that is a wonderful thing? There is life and then there is life that is miserable. I am wondering why you would set someone up for the latter just to make yourself feel good you have a life to take care of.

You’re seeing it from the perspective of an able bodied person. If all you’ve ever known is no limbs then you work with that. If this child has loving, supportive parents they can have a marvelous, if different life.

Okay well there’s no guarantee he or she will have loving, supporting parents. Not all parents are supportive and loving. Not all have resources to care for a child that needs so much support. Even those that are, things happen. My DH and I could die and the child would be a ward of the state and end up in some kind of state run facility. My DH could have an affair and leave the family without resources to care for a profoundly disabled child. I’m not bringing a child with no limbs into this imperfect world.

Anonymous wrote:I would terminate. Life is hard. Life is so much harder for anyone with a handicap. It's not done abstract concept - it is what it is. All you fools in denial about how wonderful it is to life without limbs are nuts. I'd like to see you go without using arms and legs for a day. Unsure why that is a wonderful thing? There is life and then there is life that is miserable. I am wondering why you would set someone up for the latter just to make yourself feel good you have a life to take care of.

You’re seeing it from the perspective of an able bodied person. If all you’ve ever known is no limbs then you work with that. If this child has loving, supportive parents they can have a marvelous, if different life.

Anonymous wrote:Interesting topic and I would terminate without question. I am not emotionally equipped for the stress that parenting a child with that level of disability/SN would require.

In my YouTube feed yesterday, there was a random video about a child in Egypt or India who was born with two heads due to a twin that did not fully develop early into the pregnancy and became a parasite. The viable twin had the parasitic twin with a partial body and life force (it could move and cry but was not deemed alive because there was no brain activity on its side of the brain) erupting from the back of its head.

It was terribly sad, and in that instance, I can't imagine a scenario of why the parents did not choose to terminate the pregnancy. Some emotional trauma is too much and incompatible with life.

Because they live in Egypt.

Anonymous wrote:I wonder how many of you would opt for euthanasia (if it were available) if your child had a brain injury…as in brilliant Johnny took a bad fall from his bike, and his IQ drops from potential-Harvard lawyer to someone who can only have a simple job. I mean he won’t have the intellectual abilities of the limbless child (who we’ve already decided is a no-go). I guess what I’m trying to figure out is where will you be drawing the line? Hearing all this about what makes a child fit to live…Johnny is now going to use up financial resources that your second high IQ child could use for law school…do you really want to tell Sally no if Johnny’s highest career aspiration is to be a grocery bagger? I mean he costs a lot of money with no return on investment! The horror!

Really, this is how some of you sound.

You're an idiot. No one is talking about murdering a limbless child. The discussion is about terminating a pregnancy, which is fundamentally a different thing. I know you like to conflate them, but you can take that nonsense elsewhere.

Interesting topic and I would terminate without question. I am not emotionally equipped for the stress that parenting a child with that level of disability/SN would require.

In my YouTube feed yesterday, there was a random video about a child in Egypt or India who was born with two heads due to a twin that did not fully develop early into the pregnancy and became a parasite. The viable twin had the parasitic twin with a partial body and life force (it could move and cry but was not deemed alive because there was no brain activity on its side of the brain) erupting from the back of its head.

It was terribly sad, and in that instance, I can't imagine a scenario of why the parents did not choose to terminate the pregnancy. Some emotional trauma is too much and incompatible with life.

Do they know what caused the disability? Could there be other unidentified issues?

Physical disabilities are bad, but maybe not as debilitating as other disabilities.

Given the possibility of other issues, I’d terminate.

I would terminate. Life is hard. Life is so much harder for anyone with a handicap. It's not done abstract concept - it is what it is. All you fools in denial about how wonderful it is to life without limbs are nuts. I'd like to see you go without using arms and legs for a day. Unsure why that is a wonderful thing? There is life and then there is life that is miserable. I am wondering why you would set someone up for the latter just to make yourself feel good you have a life to take care of.

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Anonymous wrote:Calls for thread deletion are ridiculous. Who knows if this is even a real scenario happening to OP’s friend. It is definitely a scenario happening somewhere to someone at any given time. Does that mean we can never have a conversation about what birth defects would justify termination of pregnancy in our minds?

🙄

I agree.

While I am pro choice (which I stated on page 1), this thread brings out some uncomfortable arguments / examples, such as the way the nazis killed people just for being born differentially-abled.

But if we truly believe in our causes, isnt it healthy to test our beliefs? In theory, shouldn't a good argument make us stronger once its settled?

I do not believe this uncomfortable thread should be deleted. Just the opposite.

And let's be clear - the Nazis, as agents of the STATE, did this. Same with involuntary sterilization - it was done by the government. That's very different than a woman and her family making a choice they believe is best for them.

No one is defending the nazis. Can you acknowledge the end result is the same?

Or is that truth too uncomfortable for you?

If we lived in a world where 100% of medical costs were covered, a 24/7 caregiver was included and special needs schooling was free people probably wouldn't hesitate about how to raised a disabled child.

Anonymous wrote:If the child were otherwise normal - just missing limbs I’d totally have them. There are so many things they can do with prosthetics now - the world is more accessible and accommodating than ever.

I guess to me, that's the unknown part. In theory it's just limbs missing but you don't actually know what the diagnosis is. Meaning if it's much more than that or not.

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Anonymous wrote:I'm sure you don't mean any harm, OP, but if I were your "friend" and stumbled across the discussion you started, I wouldn't feel too good.

+1 Please request that this thread be deleted!

I changed the details and the friend doesn't live in this area.