I don’t have advice OP but my heart breaks for you. I have lost my husband to Joe Rogan. I despair for my son.

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Anonymous wrote:The result of weak soy boy culture

+1

Sitting in a classroom for 18 years and then spending the rest of your life in a cubicle on a computer is the definition of a soulless existence for most guys. Our society is creating a bunch of nerds. Things like sports, leadership, courage, integrity, and tenacity are just not emphasized like they used to. See something, say something. Uh, maybe you should DO something. Join the DE&I cult or else! You are a misogynist if you attempt to sleep with numerous attractive women! And don't go to school when it snows or play dodgeball because who knows what could happen

This guy is an obnoxious tool, but this is why you see a market for these clowns. I think it is likely a phase, and once his "business" fails, his opinion of this guy will hopefully change.

Op here. I totally get what you are saying about why this is a happening and I agree.

Even if it is a phase and has nowhere to really go in the long or even medium-run, it still must be addressed.

I have also come to the conclusion that it is going to be extremely hard to get him to see this for what it really is or make changes (aside from falling flat on his face which wouldn't be the worst thing) because it is not just him - it is his 2 best high school friends. Peer influence is everything at this age. I have no idea what or if their parents know what is going on. I am considering addressing all 3 of them in some way because they need to hear pushback from someone. Not in a confrontational way, but in a hey, guys, you are better than this sort of way. I certainly do not think I am going to just change their minds, but I hope to give them food for thought together. Then we can address ds issues specifically separately. You are all going to laugh but they are 'good kids'. They were leaders in hs, smart, athletic, good potential, etc. but they got involved in the gymbro culture during Covid and this is where it has led. Honestly I think a big part of it is that they all went to college and realized they were not the BMOC anymore and they are trying to find that feeling again in the wrong way/place.

And this is the problem. No one raises white men to be accepting of the fact that they might not be #1 all the time. White men have an expectation of being on top wherever they go. And when they’re not? The lash out and get violent.

You might think “nerdy guys” are soft or unmanly but I can tell you that those nerdy men who’ve been raised with respect for others and differing lifestyles are not a threat to society

This isn’t just a white boy problem

No, toxic masculinity affects all races. But white males account for 70% of all suicides in this country with highest rates of depression. The overwhelming majority of hate group members are white males. This isn’t coincidence

I was talking more about the phenomenon of threatened males resorting to violence. The fixation on the US here is pretty ethnocentric. It’s a global phenomenon — white men in the USA are generally a LOT more enlightened when it comes to women than men in many other cultures.

Obviously. We are significantly more socially progressive than KSA, China, India, etc. no one is arguing that. But where the US stands relative to other countries doesn’t change the fact that white men - in this country - have huge mental health issues that are not being met. I argue that it is bc they have told from childhood that they MUST be alpha male and anything less is failure. Oh, and they cannot cry, show weakness or any emotion. The male emotional intelligence is nil. This is where Andrew Tate comes in

That’s true for a subset. But it’s sort of a trope that white men’s mental health needs are underserved. This is still all very much fringe, freak stuff, well outside the norm.

?
Something is wrong if white men 25-34 are the primary source of suicide, hate groups, incels, etc. the more we brush it off, the bigger it gets. The stigma in mental health is real. We are raising the boys wrong

Again, this is fringe activity. It’s a bunch of freaks. Losers. Yes, it’s an annoyance but it’s not like a widespread problem. And honestly it’s not really anything new, it’s just that social media makes it easier for them to connect.

I’m sorry but I think you’ve lost the plot. Tate had 12B views on TikTok before takedown. That’s not fringe. Rogan is the largest space on Spotify. Musk needs no explanation. These guys aren’t fringe, nor is their message. Do you know an US HS male? Ask him who he follows. And his friends

This^^^

It’s is not fringe.

Women being raped and killed is not fringe when it 1/4 minimum

Yep. Not fringe. Look at his follower number. It's frightening.

White men -a good many of them, not all of course- have always been born midfield while everyone else is at the starting line. Now they don't have the same sort of privileges and expectations they've always had. Politicians don't all look like them. Women are in positions of authority and have their own independence. They view it -again, many not all- as an attack. And they lash out. People raising boys need to do better. And if mental health is part of it, that needs to be fixed for everyone.

I hate Andrew Tate, but I do think that there is nothing wrong with being born midfield. In fact I think it's healthy. Being born low or high makes you more vulnerable and naive to the greater population. America is the only country that has decided it doesn't need as tribe to work. It's an experiment in that way relying on self governance of the people. So I can see why people whose fathers built and fought in this country think they are entitled to start in midfield and not constantly have to rebuild. It sounds exhausting if you are always on the starting line. This is why we have societies. So we don't have to start at the starting line as a whole. The entire world works this way. Women rely on older women to teach them and aren't learning how to raise babies by themselves or take care of a home on another planet. As much as we can say that Andrew Tate is vile, we've got to stop expecting everyone to get in the back of the line when they were just being born into their own country.

Honestly the best antidote is being in a real relationship with a real woman. It’s all Freudian sublimation

OP, if you are on Twitter, check out Paul Kenyon, who is a British journalist who writes a lot about Romania. He has been digging into Andrew Tate and tweets about his trappings certainly do not smack of a multi-millionaire.

Anonymous wrote:No advice just major major sympathy. This was one of my biggest fears with having a son. He has autism and struggles with a lot of things but buying into toxic masculinity isn’t one of them.

OP, also no real tested advice but major sympathy and a little background. My now 19 y.o. DS went through this in late MS/early HS and I was panicking inside, especially as I am fairly political and eschew this culture, especially when bordering incels/misogyny. DS was not really happy during this period and struggling socially. While he never really expressed anti-female opinions, he did flirt with other extreme points and personalities. We had a lot of dinner discussions, a lot. I remained fairly consistent about my values and why I backed Democrats - "I might be able to look at GOP policy, but cannot do as long as it is inextricably tied with racism, bigotry, and anti-choice." When I offered examples, I only shared ones that I knew were based in facts. I'm so glad that I stuck to my guns here because a few years later, DS told his sister, "Mom makes these statements, but when I fact check her later, she is nearly always right or close to it."

The suggestion of pointing out that "selling advice" on line generally tracks with needing a revenue stream because the project they are claiming is so hot for them is not kicking off cash - that sounds good to share even if not acknowledged in the moment. Perhaps look into what might be in-college entreprenuerial opportunities, including summer internships. Perhaps listen, ask questions, and try to support the areas which may be less toxic.

This is so so hard. I would also look into cults and any info on the mis/disinformation of these particular individuals/groups.

I really wish the best for you here. Also, if you are married, then I would try to enlist DH as perhaps also important for DS to see a united front. While my DH is not as political, our values generally overlap and DS would know that DH would not be happy with any scams as well as misogyny.

Wishing you all the best!

Andrew is a disgusting pos. Unfortunate that he has so many impressionable followers. He's just another of the PUA Pick Up Artists.

Boys need to learn to respect women. If dad can't, then hopefully someone else steps in.

Suerte

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Anonymous wrote:I hope that at a minimum, that might help some men understand why women often don't report. How awful for that women.

The recording is so disturbing. He gets aroused by raping her. He's definitely a predator and the fact that he would send these recordings shows that he has no conscious. He definitely has no empathy. He needs to be in prison.

Not sure how you came to that conclusion based on the recording? He's obviously an A-hole and has no respect whatsoever for women though.

He said, "Because the more you didn’t like it, the more I enjoyed it." then he followed up with "It turned me on". He's literally saying that raping a woman makes him aroused. How do you not understand this? He's a monster.

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Anonymous wrote:I hope that at a minimum, that might help some men understand why women often don't report. How awful for that women.

The recording is so disturbing. He gets aroused by raping her. He's definitely a predator and the fact that he would send these recordings shows that he has no conscious. He definitely has no empathy. He needs to be in prison.

Not sure how you came to that conclusion based on the recording? He's obviously an A-hole and has no respect whatsoever for women though.

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Anonymous wrote:How did you raise a person without the discernment to see this guy for what he is? Not snarking you. I have an 8 year old and want to do better.

You’re absolutely snarking me. So far you’re not doing better.

It’s a valid question IMO. My kid would never in a million years support this sexist charlatan. He recognizes that the way he talks about and treats women is vile. What values did you instill if he listens to anything that misogynist says and thinks it is true?

OP here. I wasn't engaging in the posts above but I will respond to this.

I have 2 other ds who think he is awful. I have one who is very into him - mostly the get-rich bullshit he espouses but the anti-woman rhetoric is also being absorbed. I have always instilled into all 3 of them the values that are antithetical to all Tate stands for. I don't know what else to tell you. I am pretty heartbroken right now but I can't dwell on that because I am working hard to take the step to get him to extricate himself from this and it be his idea, bc that is the only way it is going to happen.

His dad and his dad's family are conservative so he has grown up exposed to that kind of thinking as well, but none of them would ever condone any kind of Tate way of thinking. My ds is also down this rabbit hole with 2 close friends so there is a huge peer pressure element too.

There’s your answer.

+1 Bob’s your uncle, Fanny’s your aunt

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Anonymous wrote:I hope that at a minimum, that might help some men understand why women often don't report. How awful for that women.

The recording is so disturbing. He gets aroused by raping her. He's definitely a predator and the fact that he would send these recordings shows that he has no conscious. He definitely has no empathy. He needs to be in prison.

*conscience

Anonymous wrote:I hope that at a minimum, that might help some men understand why women often don't report. How awful for that women.

The recording is so disturbing. He gets aroused by raping her. He's definitely a predator and the fact that he would send these recordings shows that he has no conscious. He definitely has no empathy. He needs to be in prison.

I hope that at a minimum, that might help some men understand why women often don't report. How awful for that women.

Anonymous wrote:Andrew Tate was arrested for possible human trafficking and rape charges. His businesses include porn and he preaches things so disturbing like if men had a sword at home women would do as told. He is the worse kind of role model for young boys. Women are property and to be disposed. Please search in YouTube and listen to some of the things he is saying. It’s a cult and he may start attracting young men with the promise of money and women but it’s much more dangerous than most people are aware if they haven’t listened to his views. The business and courses is to start grooming.

It is difficult as a parents especially after they turn 18 but if his dad is a good man and role model, he may be the best person to explain to him why Andrew Tate is not someone he should look up to.

Best of luck!

Yeah there's a recording where he admitted rape. The worst part about it is that the UK law enforcement didn't find these recordings as evidence enough that he raped her.

Andrew Tate was arrested for possible human trafficking and rape charges. His businesses include porn and he preaches things so disturbing like if men had a sword at home women would do as told. He is the worse kind of role model for young boys. Women are property and to be disposed. Please search in YouTube and listen to some of the things he is saying. It’s a cult and he may start attracting young men with the promise of money and women but it’s much more dangerous than most people are aware if they haven’t listened to his views. The business and courses is to start grooming.

It is difficult as a parents especially after they turn 18 but if his dad is a good man and role model, he may be the best person to explain to him why Andrew Tate is not someone he should look up to.

Best of luck!