Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think more people back out of ED than you may think. My husband and I saw a stat recently (wish I could remember where) that showed an ED rate for a school and those who were accepted ED and those who actually attended were quite different numbers.
I remember it because we had a discussion about how quite a few people must back out.
I thought that if you were accepted ED but did not get enough aid you could get out of the arrangement.
We would follow the rules as I think that is appropriate but it seems reasonable for people to back out of ED if they can’t afford it.
Why do the schools have all the power?

Lucky you think it's appropriate to honor the agreement you and your child and the school signed. Every school has a calculator so you can see how much it will cost you. Is it too much to ask that you use that before you apply ED? i just don't understand why people allow their children to apply to schools they can't afford.

Some schools offer merit in using opaque formulas and don't offer merit pre-reads. If one of those school's is DC's first choice and they'll need merit go ahead and apply ED there and EA elsewhere. If they get in and get merit, great. If they get in without merit, they can go elsewhere

You can’t withdraw on the basis of merit aid, just financial aid. Colleges do not consider them to be the same thing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think more people back out of ED than you may think. My husband and I saw a stat recently (wish I could remember where) that showed an ED rate for a school and those who were accepted ED and those who actually attended were quite different numbers.
I remember it because we had a discussion about how quite a few people must back out.
I thought that if you were accepted ED but did not get enough aid you could get out of the arrangement.
We would follow the rules as I think that is appropriate but it seems reasonable for people to back out of ED if they can’t afford it.
Why do the schools have all the power?

Lucky you think it's appropriate to honor the agreement you and your child and the school signed. Every school has a calculator so you can see how much it will cost you. Is it too much to ask that you use that before you apply ED? i just don't understand why people allow their children to apply to schools they can't afford.

Some schools offer merit in using opaque formulas and don't offer merit pre-reads. If one of those school's is DC's first choice and they'll need merit go ahead and apply ED there and EA elsewhere. If they get in and get merit, great. If they get in without merit, they can go elsewhere

Go to the best school that fits your needs. It’s your life and your money. Colleges that offer ED are not doing it for your sake.

Anonymous wrote:I think more people back out of ED than you may think. My husband and I saw a stat recently (wish I could remember where) that showed an ED rate for a school and those who were accepted ED and those who actually attended were quite different numbers.
I remember it because we had a discussion about how quite a few people must back out.
I thought that if you were accepted ED but did not get enough aid you could get out of the arrangement.
We would follow the rules as I think that is appropriate but it seems reasonable for people to back out of ED if they can’t afford it.
Why do the schools have all the power?

Lucky you think it's appropriate to honor the agreement you and your child and the school signed. Every school has a calculator so you can see how much it will cost you. Is it too much to ask that you use that before you apply ED? i just don't understand why people allow their children to apply to schools they can't afford.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think more people back out of ED than you may think. My husband and I saw a stat recently (wish I could remember where) that showed an ED rate for a school and those who were accepted ED and those who actually attended were quite different numbers.
I remember it because we had a discussion about how quite a few people must back out.
I thought that if you were accepted ED but did not get enough aid you could get out of the arrangement.
We would follow the rules as I think that is appropriate but it seems reasonable for people to back out of ED if they can’t afford it.
Why do the schools have all the power?

Yes, you can always back out for financial reasons. However, if Fafsa says you are full pay and you can't afford it, then that is not an excuse. So UMC who make too much for need based aid according to the govt, but who don't have $320K saved for 4 years of college cannot back out easily. This is more for "my contribution is $10K and if the university doesn't give me the other $70K then I can back out".

Schools don't have all the power, they only do if you allow it. Simply don't do ED if it's not the best choice for you (and that includes financial issues). There are TONS of excellent schools that are affordable---they may not be T50 but they are still places your kid can get an excellent education and more importantly do so without going into major debt. It's only those obsessed with Top/elite schools that have this issue.

I'm in another state, but our 2nd big school in the state is ranked in T200 and costs ~$25K/year. It's a great school, and I know many who go there for financial reasons and do the honors program to find their cohorts (think "smarter group of kids who could have gone to a T100 or T50 school but can't afford it or want to stay closer to home") With our high minimum wage in the state, the school is truly affordable if student can live at home during summer and work. Sure it's not Harvard, but it's an excellent school with almost all majors you could want and plenty of really smart kids attending.

The FAFSA alone does not determine your aid at some schools and in reality, the school's EFC and the FAFSA's EFC are different. In addition, the schools my kids applied to have an explicit warning that the NPC is only an estimate and the final aid package is something that may only be determined through actual review.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For other EA schools, I don't see the big deal. If student wants to know outcome of other schools' applications, no reason why they can't wait. Usually the decisions are all around the same time, so not much time for school to react to a withdrawn application. My son didn't apply ED, but he had a few EA applications out and once he heard from his top choice, he still held out and waited to see what other schools' decisions were. Once he got the decisions, he immediately declined so that they could use that slot for a waitlist candidate.

Building on this, EA doesn’t confer the same advantage as ED since it is not binding and does not require you to withdraw apps. I see no problem with a kid who applied EA waiting to hear on other schools. Very different question.

PP who was quoted here. I would also add that if the EA applicant who gets into their first choice keeps RD applications open, that is pretty lame. Those should be withdrawn to give options to others who might otherwise be waitlisted.

Anonymous wrote:Those are the rules. Don’t be a selfish, greedy, a-hole who thinks they’re too special for the rules to apply to them.

You are correct, but IMHO it is more than that. It's your word - what you agreed to voluntarily. That's more important than the rules themselves.

Those are the rules. Don’t be a selfish, greedy, a-hole who thinks they’re too special for the rules to apply to them.

They most certainly should - immediately. Follow the rules even if others don't

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ED is a scam to improve yield. It should be abolished.

It’s also a wonderful way for families like ours to demonstrate absolute commitment to one chosen school and enjoy the statistical advantage that confers. It’s a great option among many available options and it should be preserved

Exactly. It's affirmative action for the wealthy.

How so? We will need aid if my DD attends her ED school. If they can’t meet our need, she is free to back out. We confirmed this with both schools she was considering for ED.

Are you officially allowed to wait to withdraw other applications in this case?

NP. Yes. If the package is insufficient, the student can back out of ED. What the student cannot do is wait for the other packages to come in and then compare. Most schools have a very short timeframe for enrolling after ED acceptance, a few weeks. As a practical matter, it's possible that in some cases, a family may be in the process of appealing financial aid with the ED school, and in that case the student should not withdraw other apps until the financial aid package is finalized.

To repeat, if there is a financial aid appeal going on, students should NOT withdraw other apps until that financial aid process is finished. If the financial aid is insufficient, the student withdraws from the ED school, giving up that acceptance. This is a problem with so much judging in this forum. No one really knows the personal financial details of other families.

Just waiting to see if an accepted ED kid gets into their other reaches is obviously unethical, can be risky if the ED school should find out (student agrees their name can be shared with other schools upon acceptance to the ED school), and plain rude. However, even in this scenario, don't overlook the fact that teenagers are prone to lying on the subject of college admissions. Just because a kid said they were waiting to see doesn't mean they actually didn't withdraw. Some might want to pretend they got in, but whoops, couldn't go because they were already bound to attend ED school. Not nice behavior, yes, but wouldn't mean much other than the fact that they're under pressure and lied. Wouldn't be the first time teens lied for social reasons.

Anonymous wrote:The competitive school my child applied ED to allows EA to public state institutions.

Virtually all ED schools allow EA to any other college - ED schools don't care where else you apply because you are bound to attend your ED school if accepted. (It is REA schools that have restrictions on where else you can apply.)

Anonymous wrote:I think more people back out of ED than you may think. My husband and I saw a stat recently (wish I could remember where) that showed an ED rate for a school and those who were accepted ED and those who actually attended were quite different numbers.
I remember it because we had a discussion about how quite a few people must back out.
I thought that if you were accepted ED but did not get enough aid you could get out of the arrangement.
We would follow the rules as I think that is appropriate but it seems reasonable for people to back out of ED if they can’t afford it.
Why do the schools have all the power?

Yes, you can always back out for financial reasons. However, if Fafsa says you are full pay and you can't afford it, then that is not an excuse. So UMC who make too much for need based aid according to the govt, but who don't have $320K saved for 4 years of college cannot back out easily. This is more for "my contribution is $10K and if the university doesn't give me the other $70K then I can back out".

Schools don't have all the power, they only do if you allow it. Simply don't do ED if it's not the best choice for you (and that includes financial issues). There are TONS of excellent schools that are affordable---they may not be T50 but they are still places your kid can get an excellent education and more importantly do so without going into major debt. It's only those obsessed with Top/elite schools that have this issue.

I'm in another state, but our 2nd big school in the state is ranked in T200 and costs ~$25K/year. It's a great school, and I know many who go there for financial reasons and do the honors program to find their cohorts (think "smarter group of kids who could have gone to a T100 or T50 school but can't afford it or want to stay closer to home") With our high minimum wage in the state, the school is truly affordable if student can live at home during summer and work. Sure it's not Harvard, but it's an excellent school with almost all majors you could want and plenty of really smart kids attending.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is such an odd thread. Do you all believe there are ens or hundreds of thousands (millions?) of unethical HS students out there? Most are probably waiting on pins and needles to hear from their ED school. When they get in they're so excited and thrilledntonget in at thebplace they want to attend.

Our own child immediately withdrew from their other schools after being accepted ED - they knew there were other students waiting on pins and needles to hear from those schools, and why would they hold a spot when they knew they were not going to attend?

When you get in, it is a binding decision. That means you have to attend. Anyone who thinks there are so many kids out there who can get out of that, are crazy. A few here and there who figure out a way to manipulate the system, sure. But I don't think this is a huge nationwide problem.

Not attending your ED acceptance is NOT the issue. It's kids who plan to attend their ED, yet still want to "wait and see" with their other applications. Thus taking a spot from someone else should they get any other acceptances. I do think there are plenty who do that. Dangerous approach considering if the ED school finds out, they can rescind your acceptance.

And, if the ED school finds out, it looks very bad for the HS and could impact future applications from that HS to that college.

Yup! But someone willing to keep their applications active likely doesn't care about how they affect other people. They are self centered

I think more people back out of ED than you may think. My husband and I saw a stat recently (wish I could remember where) that showed an ED rate for a school and those who were accepted ED and those who actually attended were quite different numbers.
I remember it because we had a discussion about how quite a few people must back out.
I thought that if you were accepted ED but did not get enough aid you could get out of the arrangement.
We would follow the rules as I think that is appropriate but it seems reasonable for people to back out of ED if they can’t afford it.
Why do the schools have all the power?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is such an odd thread. Do you all believe there are ens or hundreds of thousands (millions?) of unethical HS students out there? Most are probably waiting on pins and needles to hear from their ED school. When they get in they're so excited and thrilledntonget in at thebplace they want to attend.

Our own child immediately withdrew from their other schools after being accepted ED - they knew there were other students waiting on pins and needles to hear from those schools, and why would they hold a spot when they knew they were not going to attend?

When you get in, it is a binding decision. That means you have to attend. Anyone who thinks there are so many kids out there who can get out of that, are crazy. A few here and there who figure out a way to manipulate the system, sure. But I don't think this is a huge nationwide problem.

Not attending your ED acceptance is NOT the issue. It's kids who plan to attend their ED, yet still want to "wait and see" with their other applications. Thus taking a spot from someone else should they get any other acceptances. I do think there are plenty who do that. Dangerous approach considering if the ED school finds out, they can rescind your acceptance.

And, if the ED school finds out, it looks very bad for the HS and could impact future applications from that HS to that college.