Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teachers in the US have a lot more face-to-face time with students than teachers in the rest of the world. I taught overseas and always had at least two planning periods each day. One was during special areas classes like art, PE, etc and the other was during foreign language class. Plus I always had a duty free lunch of at least 45 minutes.

Quite true. I have one friend who taught in Central America and another in Europe. Both had more planning / unscheduled work time than hours in front of students. Both were shocked to hear how little time American teachers get.

I taught a semester in Eastern Europe. We had uninterrupted hours for planning. It was sacrosanct. We were never asked to give up planning to cover for a colleague who was absent. Our director stepped in if necessary.

Np. Why can’t teachers unify behind this and get their unions to do something about it? Parents have zero input it seems on schools. I don’t get why teachers can’t get better planning time, curriculum and workplace protection from out of control students.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MORE teacher whining? Really?

This is OP. Not a troll. This reply is what I'm talking about. Teachers are overworked and underpaid. But parents and administrators don't and won't acknowledge it and just tell them they're whining and demand more and more.

So, we shouldn't be surprised when good teachers leave the field and you are left with under qualified teachers teaching your children and your children get a weaker education.

Please read the post at 11:46 - do you disagree?

The teachers I know IRL seem to have little perspective on jobs that are not teaching, which is frustrating. Back in August 2020, when our school district’s plan for virtual was revealed, I told a good friend, who is a teacher, how unrealistic it was and that parents wouldn’t be able to support their kids adequately. And she told me that parents’ employers would just have to understand and give them flexibility. Say what? That’s… not how it worked.

I recall a DCUM thread not too long ago about how many hours professionals *actually* work in a week. Tons of people responded: 15 hours, 2-3 “real” work hours a day, 30 hours on a busy week, etc. Many admitted to doing no real work at their WFH jobs.

I work 65+ as a teacher. I do 30+ hours a week of presentations. I am responsible for the progress of 150 students.

You’re right. I don’t think many professions work as hard as I do. I‘m sure some do, perhaps some of you on this thread. I’m confident most don’t.

Am I complaining? No. But I’m not going to accept nonsense about how easy my job is.

8-4 M-F is no where close to 65 hours a week. Drive by most schools at 4 and the parking lots are empty.

I’m actually a midlife career changer considering TFA and elementary or middle school teaching. I’ve begun second guessing if I want to go this path, because I drive by an elementary school on my way home from my hospice care job and every weeknight excepting Fridays there are at least two dozen cars in the lot and the school lit up inside at 6:30pm when I drive by. I know they start the day around 7-7:30, so that’s an 11 hour day not counting work brought home.

I already spent a couple of decades working 70-90 hours weeks routinely as I put myself through academic training and as an attorney working in legal aid and later the criminal justice system. Weeks when I had trial prep I was easily in 100 hours territory. It’s not a good quality of life to work that many hours and my health suffered a great deal.

I need a couple more years in a government or nonprofit job to get the rest of my student loans forgiven. I am considering applying for a job as a school custodian as that seems like the only guarantee of working reasonable hours and still qualifying for PSLF.

Why do you keep choosing low paying jobs with long hours?

DP.
Sometimes it isn’t about the money. I posted earlier in this thread about the ridiculous hours I have to work to get the minimum done for my classroom. I have never once argued for more pay. I want more reasonable hours. I’ll never break 100K in my district, even with my advanced degrees. Fine. Just please reevaluate my workload so I have more than 4 hours of unscheduled time a week to plan, grade, update reports, respond to emails, attend meetings, cover for sick teachers, etc. I am “on stage” in my high school classroom 34 hours a week. (Plus, being “on” and in front of 150 people for so many hours is emotionally and physically exhausting.) I need more time “off stage” to do the other half of my job. Again: this isn’t about pay.

But you knew going into the profession what the hours were, right?

Public school seems dysfunctional, broken down in blame and poorly reasoned arguments. Parents and teachers should band together in order to determine what they and the children need, find a way to supply it, and what they can’t, work together to get the rest. In terms of needs, non-toxic communication does qualify as a need, as does not being spoken to contemptuously or criticized for what they cannot do. Middle class lives are overly hard but demanding more of people doing their best only makes the downward spiral worse. Also, it’s playing into many people’s political designs

Anonymous wrote:I think this video is an important reminder for parents and administrators

https://fb.watch/hcxdi1BUVj/?mibextid=0LFGlp

Largely because people in the private sector work far more hours.

PP- You can learn to read and write in Finnish quickly. English is more complicated. They also have much better social welfare in Scandinavia then they do here.

https://vividmaps.com/orthographic-depth-of-different-languages/amp/

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So now you want teachers to have even less education. Get an AA degree like the other trades?

I don’t think that’s a bad idea, at least for the younger ages. Were you being sarcastic?

You mean like when they learn to read? Develop math and reasoning skills? When some of the first signs of learning disabilities and processing disorders are apparent?

We invest so little in the first 5 to 10 years of a kid's life as a country that it's despicable.

In those other countries that DCUM aspire to be like with well paid and educated teachers and kids starting formal school at 7 (like Finland for example), the kids all start school being fluent readers. Their parents teach them at home in the early years. And parents could have even less than AA degrees. They care about their kids though and make sure to teach them to read and whatever else is expected before school starts.

The despicable thing in the US is how bad the parenting is and how little people care about their own kids.

Do you know any Finnish people? I do, and none of them independently taught their kids to read. Their kids attended high quality, subsidized daycares where reading basics are incorporated into the mostly play-based curriculum, and parents supported at home by reading to their kids and reinforcing reading concepts. All the Finnish families I know are dual income and rely heavily on the substantial support they and their children receive before their kids start school. This includes: extensive parental leave for both parents, which allows one parent or the other to be home with babies during the first year of life, subsidized childcare, excellent post natal care for babies and mothers including home visits to make sure everyone has what the need, monthly stipends for each child to cover costs like clothes and food, which Finnish families receive regardless of income.

Parents in Finland do not care more about their kids than American parents. They receive support from the government that allows them to channel their energy into quality time with kids and supporting them emotionally, socially, and yes, sometimes academically. In the US where parents are expected to return to work almost immediately after their kids are born, find quality childcare in a system that is not designed to provide it (and definitely not affordable), absorb the costs of children with no state support, and navigate a healthcare system where standards of care are based on your income and location and there are few guaranteed benefits.

Honestly, teachers in Finland could make considerably less than in the US and have much higher quality of life because they don’t have to spend all their income on procuring basic social services like healthcare or childcare, like we do in the US.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So now you want teachers to have even less education. Get an AA degree like the other trades?

I don’t think that’s a bad idea, at least for the younger ages. Were you being sarcastic?

You mean like when they learn to read? Develop math and reasoning skills? When some of the first signs of learning disabilities and processing disorders are apparent?

We invest so little in the first 5 to 10 years of a kid's life as a country that it's despicable.

In those other countries that DCUM aspire to be like with well paid and educated teachers and kids starting formal school at 7 (like Finland for example), the kids all start school being fluent readers. Their parents teach them at home in the early years. And parents could have even less than AA degrees. They care about their kids though and make sure to teach them to read and whatever else is expected before school starts.

The despicable thing in the US is how bad the parenting is and how little people care about their own kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a former teacher. My perspective is 1) teachers underestimate how overworked everyone else is. They think they’re uniquely working unpaid overtime when just about anyone in a salaried role is feeling the same pressure, especially if they want to be regarded as good as their job. Same as teachers. 2) A ton of this, teachers bring on themselves. Take decorating rooms. No one is making them do that. You choose to go blow $200 at Michaels and then spend a weekend taping kitschy crap to the walls.

+1

Weird. I only do bulletin boards when my principal says we have to. Mind you they give us no supplies, but they have to be done. It used to be in our evaluations.

Ok so it sucks all the way around in this country. Why can’t we fix it? We all want better work life balance so maybe we should fix it. People are screaming anti union sentiment but how else do we band together to get better work life balance?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So now you want teachers to have even less education. Get an AA degree like the other trades?

I don’t think that’s a bad idea, at least for the younger ages. Were you being sarcastic?

You mean like when they learn to read? Develop math and reasoning skills? When some of the first signs of learning disabilities and processing disorders are apparent?

We invest so little in the first 5 to 10 years of a kid's life as a country that it's despicable.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a former teacher. My perspective is 1) teachers underestimate how overworked everyone else is. They think they’re uniquely working unpaid overtime when just about anyone in a salaried role is feeling the same pressure, especially if they want to be regarded as good as their job. Same as teachers. 2) A ton of this, teachers bring on themselves. Take decorating rooms. No one is making them do that. You choose to go blow $200 at Michaels and then spend a weekend taping kitschy crap to the walls.

+1

“Weekend taping kitschy crap to the walls” = weekend grading your child’s 7 page research paper
$200 at Michaels = $200 on student supplies, online resources my district won’t pay for, sanitizer, tissues, lunch for students without money…
Decorating room = making sure I don’t get downgraded on an observation for failing to provide a good learning environment
“Working unpaid overtime” = sure! But where are the teachers saying non-teachers don’t do this? Check this thread. Few voices have taken that argument, but plenty seem comfortable saying teachers whine and are lazy.

I suspect you don’t know much about teaching. I posted before saying that this thread is ridiculous. Tons of people posting about teaching, and it’s clear they understand very little about the job. Yes, teachers will get defensive. We often work long hours putting your children before our own, so perhaps you can at least refrain from typing the unkind thoughts in your head.

Anonymous wrote:I’m a former teacher. My perspective is 1) teachers underestimate how overworked everyone else is. They think they’re uniquely working unpaid overtime when just about anyone in a salaried role is feeling the same pressure, especially if they want to be regarded as good as their job. Same as teachers. 2) A ton of this, teachers bring on themselves. Take decorating rooms. No one is making them do that. You choose to go blow $200 at Michaels and then spend a weekend taping kitschy crap to the walls.

+1

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teachers in the US have a lot more face-to-face time with students than teachers in the rest of the world. I taught overseas and always had at least two planning periods each day. One was during special areas classes like art, PE, etc and the other was during foreign language class. Plus I always had a duty free lunch of at least 45 minutes.

Quite true. I have one friend who taught in Central America and another in Europe. Both had more planning / unscheduled work time than hours in front of students. Both were shocked to hear how little time American teachers get.

I taught a semester in Eastern Europe. We had uninterrupted hours for planning. It was sacrosanct. We were never asked to give up planning to cover for a colleague who was absent. Our director stepped in if necessary.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MORE teacher whining? Really?

This is OP. Not a troll. This reply is what I'm talking about. Teachers are overworked and underpaid. But parents and administrators don't and won't acknowledge it and just tell them they're whining and demand more and more.

So, we shouldn't be surprised when good teachers leave the field and you are left with under qualified teachers teaching your children and your children get a weaker education.

Please read the post at 11:46 - do you disagree?

The teachers I know IRL seem to have little perspective on jobs that are not teaching, which is frustrating. Back in August 2020, when our school district’s plan for virtual was revealed, I told a good friend, who is a teacher, how unrealistic it was and that parents wouldn’t be able to support their kids adequately. And she told me that parents’ employers would just have to understand and give them flexibility. Say what? That’s… not how it worked.

I recall a DCUM thread not too long ago about how many hours professionals *actually* work in a week. Tons of people responded: 15 hours, 2-3 “real” work hours a day, 30 hours on a busy week, etc. Many admitted to doing no real work at their WFH jobs.

I work 65+ as a teacher. I do 30+ hours a week of presentations. I am responsible for the progress of 150 students.

You’re right. I don’t think many professions work as hard as I do. I‘m sure some do, perhaps some of you on this thread. I’m confident most don’t.

Am I complaining? No. But I’m not going to accept nonsense about how easy my job is.

8-4 M-F is no where close to 65 hours a week. Drive by most schools at 4 and the parking lots are empty.

I’m actually a midlife career changer considering TFA and elementary or middle school teaching. I’ve begun second guessing if I want to go this path, because I drive by an elementary school on my way home from my hospice care job and every weeknight excepting Fridays there are at least two dozen cars in the lot and the school lit up inside at 6:30pm when I drive by. I know they start the day around 7-7:30, so that’s an 11 hour day not counting work brought home.

I already spent a couple of decades working 70-90 hours weeks routinely as I put myself through academic training and as an attorney working in legal aid and later the criminal justice system. Weeks when I had trial prep I was easily in 100 hours territory. It’s not a good quality of life to work that many hours and my health suffered a great deal.

I need a couple more years in a government or nonprofit job to get the rest of my student loans forgiven. I am considering applying for a job as a school custodian as that seems like the only guarantee of working reasonable hours and still qualifying for PSLF.

Schools are used for everything from Girl Scout meetings to basketball practice in the evenings. Ignore the parking lot.

Why is it so hard to accept that many teachers work long hours? I really don’t get the purpose of this thread anymore. Seriously… their cars aren’t in the lot, so therefore they aren’t working? How many posters here WFH, at least a little bit?

Look, I’ll keep doing my job regardless of what the nasty people on DCUM post. I work 60 hours / week regularly, with it heading to 70 when major assignments get submitted. That’s fine. I’ll do it without complaint because it’s meaningful and purposeful work. I just don’t get why some posters find joy in insulting teachers. It’s like dealing with adolescents here on DCUM.

Pointing out that you shouldn't judge if teachers are working by the parking lot isn't a dog at teachers. It's more of a dog at the PP who was trying to judge whether a profession is working based on the status of a parking lot. Total nonsense. Everyone knows that schools are used by the community and teachers can grade or plan at home. No need to be so defensive.

dog = dig. The joy of autocorrect on a new phone.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MORE teacher whining? Really?

This is OP. Not a troll. This reply is what I'm talking about. Teachers are overworked and underpaid. But parents and administrators don't and won't acknowledge it and just tell them they're whining and demand more and more.

So, we shouldn't be surprised when good teachers leave the field and you are left with under qualified teachers teaching your children and your children get a weaker education.

Please read the post at 11:46 - do you disagree?

The teachers I know IRL seem to have little perspective on jobs that are not teaching, which is frustrating. Back in August 2020, when our school district’s plan for virtual was revealed, I told a good friend, who is a teacher, how unrealistic it was and that parents wouldn’t be able to support their kids adequately. And she told me that parents’ employers would just have to understand and give them flexibility. Say what? That’s… not how it worked.

I recall a DCUM thread not too long ago about how many hours professionals *actually* work in a week. Tons of people responded: 15 hours, 2-3 “real” work hours a day, 30 hours on a busy week, etc. Many admitted to doing no real work at their WFH jobs.

I work 65+ as a teacher. I do 30+ hours a week of presentations. I am responsible for the progress of 150 students.

You’re right. I don’t think many professions work as hard as I do. I‘m sure some do, perhaps some of you on this thread. I’m confident most don’t.

Am I complaining? No. But I’m not going to accept nonsense about how easy my job is.

8-4 M-F is no where close to 65 hours a week. Drive by most schools at 4 and the parking lots are empty.

I’m actually a midlife career changer considering TFA and elementary or middle school teaching. I’ve begun second guessing if I want to go this path, because I drive by an elementary school on my way home from my hospice care job and every weeknight excepting Fridays there are at least two dozen cars in the lot and the school lit up inside at 6:30pm when I drive by. I know they start the day around 7-7:30, so that’s an 11 hour day not counting work brought home.

I already spent a couple of decades working 70-90 hours weeks routinely as I put myself through academic training and as an attorney working in legal aid and later the criminal justice system. Weeks when I had trial prep I was easily in 100 hours territory. It’s not a good quality of life to work that many hours and my health suffered a great deal.

I need a couple more years in a government or nonprofit job to get the rest of my student loans forgiven. I am considering applying for a job as a school custodian as that seems like the only guarantee of working reasonable hours and still qualifying for PSLF.

Schools are used for everything from Girl Scout meetings to basketball practice in the evenings. Ignore the parking lot.

Why is it so hard to accept that many teachers work long hours? I really don’t get the purpose of this thread anymore. Seriously… their cars aren’t in the lot, so therefore they aren’t working? How many posters here WFH, at least a little bit?

Look, I’ll keep doing my job regardless of what the nasty people on DCUM post. I work 60 hours / week regularly, with it heading to 70 when major assignments get submitted. That’s fine. I’ll do it without complaint because it’s meaningful and purposeful work. I just don’t get why some posters find joy in insulting teachers. It’s like dealing with adolescents here on DCUM.

Pointing out that you shouldn't judge if teachers are working by the parking lot isn't a dog at teachers. It's more of a dog at the PP who was trying to judge whether a profession is working based on the status of a parking lot. Total nonsense. Everyone knows that schools are used by the community and teachers can grade or plan at home. No need to be so defensive.

Anonymous wrote:I’m a former teacher. My perspective is 1) teachers underestimate how overworked everyone else is. They think they’re uniquely working unpaid overtime when just about anyone in a salaried role is feeling the same pressure, especially if they want to be regarded as good as their job. Same as teachers. 2) A ton of this, teachers bring on themselves. Take decorating rooms. No one is making them do that. You choose to go blow $200 at Michaels and then spend a weekend taping kitschy crap to the walls.

I see the opposite. I changed careers and became a teacher. Pressure is subjective, but just looking at hours on task, I can’t believe how much more work I do now, especially unpaid. None of it involves bulletin boards, BTW.

DH also changed careers, taught for a while, and then almost two years ago, quit teaching. He returned to his previous career. He’s putting in at most 2/3 the number of hours and making almost $40k more.