Things might change but the next decade or two do not look good for Western Europe. The war in Ukraine may escalate. Europe has an aging population and a lot of the social benefits are unsustainable. There is a lot of political unrest and there are all sorts of problems. I don’t see how things are any better in Europe. Also if you’re a white collar worker who wants to find a job, you’ll make way less money than in the US.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do people do this? To move to the EU?

Because the US is becoming an oppressive oligarchy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtkPacTl64I

To us, it's the political landscape. It has turned very ugly.

My spouse is a dual citizen with the UK, and so are our kids. We have started looking into moving there for a few years at some point after the kids finish college. For my spouse, it started with GWB, and then went completely downhill with Trump.

This just gives us options, which I'm very grateful for.

I never thought 1/6 would ever happen, but it did. 1/6 and the current climate of Rs questioning and threatening the foundation of our democracy just shows me how unstable our democracy really is.

And I used to be a R.

Are you paying attention to what's goin on in the UK?

absolutely. That turmoil isn't going to last 4 years. In any case, even with the turmoil they are in now, you don't see insurrectionists trying to overthrow the government. You don't see groups like the Oath Keepers, with their massive stash of guns, ready to do their cult leader's bidding instituting martial law.

No matter how bad the UK is politically at the moment, nothing in the UK compares to what happened on 1/6 at the Capitol, and what continues to be pushed by the #stopthesteal crowd. These events, if unchecked, will lead to the downfall of our democracy. I want to make sure that we have an out.

This is wild to me. This was one event and if it hadn’t been on the news, 99.9999% of Americans wouldn’t have even known about it. Meaning there is absolutely no effect on your daily life. There are many problems in the US but 1/6 really isn’t something to dwell on.

Anonymous wrote:So here’s my question (which is a genuine one)—-I keep hearing people say the European economy is not good. But in my business I keep seeing American companies bought out by large European MNCs. Can someone explain?

With the disclaimer that I know nothing about this:

First of all, just because things are bad for individuals in the economy doesn't mean they are bad for companies, especially private equity firms who benefit from recessions. Second, the economy in the US isn't that great either!

So here’s my question (which is a genuine one)—-I keep hearing people say the European economy is not good. But in my business I keep seeing American companies bought out by large European MNCs. Can someone explain?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Spouse did it for German citizenship for himself and our kids, via a Jewish grandparent (rest of the family killed in the Holocaust). He had to collect a bunch of paperwork but it was all doable. Took about 2 years from start to finish.

what kind of paperwork? we’re jewish and my grandmother grew up in germany (she’s still alive), she and her parents survived concentration camps and came to the US when she was a teen. I can’t even imagine where to start looking for paperwork or what kind of paperwork I’d need?

This is very weird to me as the descendent of German Jews.

I mean the U.S. has problems yes, but racism and anti-semitism are deeply ingrained in German culture, and the AfD (far right party) which is openly racist and antisemitic is on the rise.

https://www.dw.com/en/antisemitism-deeply-rooted-in-german-society/a-61750177
https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2022/country-chapters/germany

+100

As a Jew, I cannot overlook the horrors of the recent past just to get a passport of convenience from the country that perpetrated genocide on my family.

You need to contact the rapidly expanding Jewish population in the real Germany of today.

Jews are moving to Germany. Especially from Russia and its former republics.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've looked into it. It can get a little tricky because borders have moved.

For instance, my grandparents were Polish, and came over to America in the late 1800s when all these present-day-countries were under the Austro-Hungarian Empire. However, after WW2 the lines were redrawn and their villages are now in the Western Ukraine. So does that mean we look toward Polish citizenship or Ukrainian? Messy!

Also in the case of Poland if your ancestors went through US naturalization or was conscripted into the Russian/Austrian/Prussian army it can also disqualify you. If an ancestor served in US military it *could* also disqualify you. Ancestors didn’t return to Poland when it re-emerged on the European map? Likely a disqualifier.

For PP they’d likely have to go through Ukraine because people eg, east of the border lines drawn after WWI and WWII were excluded / stripped of Polish citizenship.

Hungary a decade or so ago was the back door for many people. They had the loosest requirements. 🤷‍♀️

Top PP here..thank you!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've looked into it. It can get a little tricky because borders have moved.

For instance, my grandparents were Polish, and came over to America in the late 1800s when all these present-day-countries were under the Austro-Hungarian Empire. However, after WW2 the lines were redrawn and their villages are now in the Western Ukraine. So does that mean we look toward Polish citizenship or Ukrainian? Messy!

Galicia? How interesting!!

Not that uncommon in dc considering the number of ashkenazis here

Top PP here. Yes, Galicia! (but not the Spanish one). And my ancestors were Roman Catholic Poles, but there were Jews and Ukranians there and many left for the US as Galicia was so poor. I'm on 23andMe and nobody around there has any of our surnames. I think that border moving back and forth probably had them getting out of there, or getting killed. Close to there was the massacre of the Poles after WWII by militant Ukrainians. My grandparents had immigrated before that.

I found a youtube video that has a map and shows the European border changes through the last 1,000 years. I went to the end of the video and took a piece off a post-it and stuck it to where my grandparent's villiage was. Then I watched the video and the border moved across that village so many times.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzXoc8y2G0k

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Spouse did it for German citizenship for himself and our kids, via a Jewish grandparent (rest of the family killed in the Holocaust). He had to collect a bunch of paperwork but it was all doable. Took about 2 years from start to finish.

what kind of paperwork? we’re jewish and my grandmother grew up in germany (she’s still alive), she and her parents survived concentration camps and came to the US when she was a teen. I can’t even imagine where to start looking for paperwork or what kind of paperwork I’d need?

This is very weird to me as the descendent of German Jews.

I mean the U.S. has problems yes, but racism and anti-semitism are deeply ingrained in German culture, and the AfD (far right party) which is openly racist and antisemitic is on the rise.

https://www.dw.com/en/antisemitism-deeply-rooted-in-german-society/a-61750177
https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2022/country-chapters/germany

+100

As a Jew, I cannot overlook the horrors of the recent past just to get a passport of convenience from the country that perpetrated genocide on my family.

I think getting another nationality is wonderful if you want to have options to work throughout Europe or at least ensure your kids do, live there for some period or have strong connections to a particular country. However, there is a certain naivete in this thread. Firstly, the standard of healthcare might not be what many Americans are accustomed to. Secondly, without local language skills, job options may be limited in many countries and professional skills may not be recognised. Thirdly, you might be trying to escape civil rights infringements here but not realise that many European countries have their own restrictions that you don't agree with (eg abortion law).

For those seeing retirement in Europe as some sort of long term financial panacea, keep in mind that nobody has a crystal ball that shows what things will be like in the future. Health systems are increasingly overwhelmed by aging populations, the economic fortunes of countries change, and the world is unpredictable. Exchange rates move in mysterious ways. For example, if I moved to the US on an Australian pension equal to US$150,000 per year in 2001, by 2011 that was worth $75,000. Impossible to predict that was going to happen. If you sell up your US assets and buy a house in another country, just keep in mind that, even if their property market keeps increasing, you can end up with a lot less money if you have to sell up and move back to the US.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the benefit of doing this? You aren't going to move to Europe.

Why do you assume they wouldn’t? My kids have German passports in addition to their US passports, which we got in significant part so they would have an option to live/work there as adults. My college student is seriously considering it for after graduation.

Don't be crazy. College kids make grandiose plans. Your kid isn't moving to Germany. People move to North America from Europe not the other way around. My parents were born in Croatia. I grew up around lots of Croatians. Nobody's kids moved there if they were not born there. Would be extremely rare.

You are wrong on a few accounts. Firstly, while kids in your circle may not study abroad, American kids do go and study in Europe. Why do you think there are so many posts on this site about kids going to St Andrews in Scotland? My kid is at Washington International School and so I can tell you this is a fact. Secondly, I grew up in Australia and my father was Croatian. Many dual nationals go back and forth. My Croatian cousin-in-law's sister moved back from Sydney. This isn't just the case for Croatians. People return to their home country because of their family and cultural ties.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't the residents of these EU countries resent it if so many Americans started using their low cost universities and healthcare without having paid into the system first?
Just a thought.

Go ahead and flame me, but with their low birthrates, they should want immigrants who are of their ethnic origin there to help preserve their cultures rather than immigrants who are of vastly different cultures who won’t carry on the traditions they have been building for over 1,000 years.

DP.. sort of, yes. Several countries like Italy and Portugal have a declining birth rate.

Portugal has the golden visa program, but it has become so popular that they had to up the financial threshold.

Years back when Syrians were fleeing the war there, Portugal wanted some refugees to settle in some places in there.

There are Italian towns that will pay people to move there.

But, yea, I'm sure there would be a tipping point where they wouldn't want anymore foreigners. Mexico is going through that now with "Americans go home" due to so many American retirees moving there.. How's that for some irony.

Don’t assume that for every country, citizenship will entitle you to full benefits. You need to do some research. For example, my British citizen kids would be charged the international tuition rate if they went to university in the UK unless they were resident there for at least 2 (?) years beforehand. I understand in the Netherlands, you are legally required to take out standard health insurance. Every country is different. In addition, some European countries still have mandatory military service for 18yo males.

Anonymous wrote:Ha!

Don't let the door hit you in the way out. UK is in shambles and will continue to collapse. Germany has rolling blackouts and will limit energy during the dead of winter. Italy just elected the far right, a trend that is taking hold all over Europe. Oh, and what a fantastic idea to move into the mouth of the lion right next to Russia who'll be causing problems for the continent for the foreseeable future. Europe's economy and future outlook is so anemic, and don't fool yourselves into thinking you'll get paid the same. Salaries in the EU are often very, veryyyyy low.

The key is the keep your American income streams while enjoying Europe.

European economic fraility just means cheap goods and services for Americans while also enjoying zero crime and Walkability and better food supply

Anonymous wrote:Ha!

Don't let the door hit you in the way out. UK is in shambles and will continue to collapse. Germany has rolling blackouts and will limit energy during the dead of winter. Italy just elected the far right, a trend that is taking hold all over Europe. Oh, and what a fantastic idea to move into the mouth of the lion right next to Russia who'll be causing problems for the continent for the foreseeable future. Europe's economy and future outlook is so anemic, and don't fool yourselves into thinking you'll get paid the same. Salaries in the EU are often very, veryyyyy low.

I think this is about options, not that people are going to move there now.

Also, salaries are low, but so are college costs, healthcare, childcare, not to mention you get a long maternity leave.

It's six or half dozen or the other. Unless you are pretty wealthy and have great insurance, life in the US can be pretty hard, too, for many. People there don't worry about saving massive amounts for college or retirement. They don't worry about having to work just to have healthcare. I could retire right now with a few million (I'm in my 50s) if it wasn't for the fact that healthcare here is ridiculously expensive. Some young person could have my six figure job where I get to wfh. But nope. Gotta work to pay for healthcare and the out of control college costs, too. When people in Europe find out how much we pay for having a baby, and college costs, they are incredulous.

Ha!

Don't let the door hit you in the way out. UK is in shambles and will continue to collapse. Germany has rolling blackouts and will limit energy during the dead of winter. Italy just elected the far right, a trend that is taking hold all over Europe. Oh, and what a fantastic idea to move into the mouth of the lion right next to Russia who'll be causing problems for the continent for the foreseeable future. Europe's economy and future outlook is so anemic, and don't fool yourselves into thinking you'll get paid the same. Salaries in the EU are often very, veryyyyy low.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the benefit of doing this? You aren't going to move to Europe.

Why do you assume they wouldn’t? My kids have German passports in addition to their US passports, which we got in significant part so they would have an option to live/work there as adults. My college student is seriously considering it for after graduation.

Don't be crazy. College kids make grandiose plans. Your kid isn't moving to Germany. People move to North America from Europe not the other way around. My parents were born in Croatia. I grew up around lots of Croatians. Nobody's kids moved there if they were not born there. Would be extremely rare.