Anonymous
10/21/2022 10:00
Subject: 6th grade DD is being excluded from social events with longtime friends
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:You mentioned your daughter is “dramatic.” In what way does this come across? Any way you can help her with friendship skills so that new friendships are less dramatic? Even as an adult, I am having a hard time with one of my friends who tends to be dramatic and gets offended at the drop of a hat. She is constantly complaining that friend groups are shutting her out, and her mutual constant friends, including me are at a loss as to how to help her see that some of her drama is driving these conflicts without hurting her feelings.
+1
+1
This stood out to me too. “Dramatic” can mean a lot of things, none of them good. And the kids can choose their friends at that age.
Anonymous
10/21/2022 09:51
Subject: Re:6th grade DD is being excluded from social events with longtime friends
I had been close with the moms as well, but distanced myself once my DD was excluded. I wouldn’t bring it up to the moms. They know your DD is missing whether they admit it or not. Even if you ask one, you will get a generic message that the girls are growing apart, etc.
I agree that not admitting there is an issue is gaslighting and inappropriate. But unless there is a specific mean comment or behavior that OP wants these women to address (in which case she can bring that up), there's no other answer that they can give except that the girls are growing apart.
Anonymous
10/21/2022 09:46
Subject: 6th grade DD is being excluded from social events with longtime friends
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Mean kids suck and their mean parents suck worse.
I'm so sorry OP. We too have BTDT.
So once your kid is friends with someone, they are obligated to be their friend forever? And as a parent, you must force the friendship to continue or you are even more "mean"?
Here’s the queen bee mom.
Not an answer to her question though.
Answer. One girl sure, maybe even two. But not her entire friend group. There’s something else going on here.
Depends on the group dynamics. If you have a strong personality who decides to cut someone out it can be tough for the rest of the group to include them.
Anonymous
10/21/2022 09:25
Subject: Re:6th grade DD is being excluded from social events with longtime friends
Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for the advice and BTDT on this thread. I really appreciate people taking a few minutes to share their kids' experiences.
To be clear, my priority is no way my friendships with these girls' parents. I have plenty of friends from other areas of life (work, grad school, neighbors). But is it really that unusual to become friends with some of the parents of your kids' friends? Our kids chose to be friends on their own (in no way social engineered) and I have spent hours upon hours with these people on the sidelines of games, at BBQs, school events. That evolved into adult dinners, parties, even travel. My questions was whether I should reach out to find out more about what is going on, again not applying pressure to include DD, just to better understand the source of the problem. Most of the responses have been a resounding no to this.
DD is not at a super small private, and it expands this year and in 7th, so seeking out friendships with some new kids is a really good idea. She does tend to be dramatic, and maybe that is a turn off to some of these friends. But the hurt she is feeling is real, and I've see with my own eyes the overt meanness on multiple occasions, so she is no way making this up in her head.
Thanks again for some of the tangible advice provided about how to help DD develop a thicker skin and become more resilient.
We have BTDT in 6th grade too. It was difficult and devastating for DD but just wanted to share that things improved dramatically starting in 7th grade. I had been close with the moms as well, but distanced myself once my DD was excluded. I wouldn’t bring it up to the moms. They know your DD is missing whether they admit it or not. Even if you ask one, you will get a generic message that the girls are growing apart, etc. They will not admit their daughters are being rude. If they say anything to their daughters it will just bring more strife to your DD.
The best advice I can share is that if your DD branches out with new activities and friends, she will get through it successfully. It takes time and is hard but by early 7th grade and beyond it will be behind her. One thing I observed from our DD is that she never again had all of her friendships in one place. Through HS and college she maintained multiple groups of friends from different activities.
Anonymous
10/21/2022 09:12
Subject: 6th grade DD is being excluded from social events with longtime friends
Anonymous wrote:You mentioned your daughter is “dramatic.” In what way does this come across? Any way you can help her with friendship skills so that new friendships are less dramatic? Even as an adult, I am having a hard time with one of my friends who tends to be dramatic and gets offended at the drop of a hat. She is constantly complaining that friend groups are shutting her out, and her mutual constant friends, including me are at a loss as to how to help her see that some of her drama is driving these conflicts without hurting her feelings.
+1
Anonymous
10/21/2022 09:10
Subject: Re:6th grade DD is being excluded from social events with longtime friends
Anonymous wrote:I'm trying not to make this about me, but I'm also super annoyed at the parents (my friends!) for not being more sensitive about this. After one school event, DD watched as 6 of her best friends climbed into a car for a sleepover. She cried for hours. When I've casually approached a few of the parents about DD having issues this year with being excluded, they said, "Oh, I had no idea!" and then nothing changes. I hesitate pushing more -- what is the answer? They force their DDs to invite my DD to things? That would likely make things worse.
Others have made great suggestions on how to help your daughter (get her involved in new activities and connect with new people). My son has both been on the receiving and giving end of this behavior, and the only thing that helped when he was on the receiving end was to connect with other kids outside the group.
Regarding the moms, I agree that they should be more honest that the kids are drifting apart. However, separate from that, there's not a ton that they can do at this age. They can talk to their kids, but what they will get in response is likely facial agreement to be nicer, and then the same behavior. You are right that they cannot and should not force their kids to invite yours. It's not going to lead to a good result for anyone.
I agree with just about everything you said. As a mom, I wouldn’t force my daughter to be friends with anyone, but as OP’s friend, I would invite her out to coffee to chat about it. I’d be completely honest that I’ve seen the girls grow apart, and if I know what’s going on, I would gently say it (“Larla has said that your daughter made unkind comments about her clothing repeatedly even after she asked your child to stop” or “Larla tells me that she just isn’t connecting with your daughter anymore” - whatever it is) or “OP, I honestly have no idea what is happening, but I feel so bad about it and I’ve talked to my daughter about kindness.” I do think that would go a long way for OP just from a friendship point of view, that and acknowledging the obvious - that there has been a change in the girls’ dynamic.
Anonymous
10/21/2022 09:07
Subject: Re:6th grade DD is being excluded from social events with longtime friends
Not an answer to her question though.
Answer. One girl sure, maybe even two. But not her entire friend group. There’s something else going on here.
Right, but it may not be fixable. I remember distinctly in 6th grade that my group of friends and I were furious at another girl in the group because we felt she was boy-crazy and obsessed with boys and did not care about our softball team (which all of us were on) as much as she used to. At the time it seemed like the worst possible offense - but in reality, we were just at different places in life. There's nothing wrong with having less interest in softball and more in boys, but it is really, really hard for immature kids to see something like that in a reasonable light.
Anonymous
10/21/2022 08:56
Subject: 6th grade DD is being excluded from social events with longtime friends
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Mean kids suck and their mean parents suck worse.
I'm so sorry OP. We too have BTDT.
So once your kid is friends with someone, they are obligated to be their friend forever? And as a parent, you must force the friendship to continue or you are even more "mean"?
Here’s the queen bee mom.
Not an answer to her question though.
Answer. One girl sure, maybe even two. But not her entire friend group. There’s something else going on here.
Anonymous
10/21/2022 08:40
Subject: 6th grade DD is being excluded from social events with longtime friends
You mentioned your daughter is “dramatic.” In what way does this come across? Any way you can help her with friendship skills so that new friendships are less dramatic? Even as an adult, I am having a hard time with one of my friends who tends to be dramatic and gets offended at the drop of a hat. She is constantly complaining that friend groups are shutting her out, and her mutual constant friends, including me are at a loss as to how to help her see that some of her drama is driving these conflicts without hurting her feelings.
Anonymous
10/21/2022 08:30
Subject: 6th grade DD is being excluded from social events with longtime friends
I’ve seen a lot of accounts from anguished parents on both sides of the tween friend breakups. I think you’ll best serve your child’s interest to help her realize that she is better off meeting new friends that she has more in common with, and do do this without trying to demonize the old friends. If the other parents are blunt with you about why they don’t want to include your daughter that could be even more hurtful to you and your daughter. I know parents and kids say they want to know but from what I’ve seen, seeking out and getting this info has never ended well. Better to realize that not all kids are compatible and focus on positive steps to find more compatible friends. We have been through this too when my DD went through cycles of being shut out from a trio and it is hurtful but new friendships solved the problem.
Anonymous
10/21/2022 08:29
Subject: Re:6th grade DD is being excluded from social events with longtime friends
They are not going to force their middle school girls to be friends with your daughter, and even people who seem like saints can become vipers when you suggest their children might not be as pleasant and inclusive as they imagine them to be.
I don't know that it is true that they will "become vipers," but I agree that you cannot force middle school kids to be friends. When another mom confronted me about my son no longer wanting to be friends with hers, all I could say was "you're right, they drifted apart, and I am sad about that because I really like Billy. I hope maybe they'll be friends again in the future." I can't control who my kid wants to hang out with, and as long as he isn't bullying anyone or being cruel, at this age, he does have the right to choose who he spends his spare time with. He has to be civil, but he doesn't have to be friends with the people I pick.
Anonymous
10/21/2022 08:26
Subject: Re:6th grade DD is being excluded from social events with longtime friends
I'm trying not to make this about me, but I'm also super annoyed at the parents (my friends!) for not being more sensitive about this. After one school event, DD watched as 6 of her best friends climbed into a car for a sleepover. She cried for hours. When I've casually approached a few of the parents about DD having issues this year with being excluded, they said, "Oh, I had no idea!" and then nothing changes. I hesitate pushing more -- what is the answer? They force their DDs to invite my DD to things? That would likely make things worse.
Others have made great suggestions on how to help your daughter (get her involved in new activities and connect with new people). My son has both been on the receiving and giving end of this behavior, and the only thing that helped when he was on the receiving end was to connect with other kids outside the group.
Regarding the moms, I agree that they should be more honest that the kids are drifting apart. However, separate from that, there's not a ton that they can do at this age. They can talk to their kids, but what they will get in response is likely facial agreement to be nicer, and then the same behavior. You are right that they cannot and should not force their kids to invite yours. It's not going to lead to a good result for anyone.
Anonymous
10/21/2022 08:18
Subject: Re:6th grade DD is being excluded from social events with longtime friends
I suggest mostly forgetting these 'friendships' with the mothers. Once their daughters no longer take interest in your daughter, they may either drop you as well or--even worse--turn on you and your daughter. Definitely do not approach them about the situation. They are not going to force their middle school girls to be friends with your daughter, and even people who seem like saints can become vipers when you suggest their children might not be as pleasant and inclusive as they imagine them to be. As others have said, it's tough, but it is time for your daughter to look for new friends. And once that happens, she'll have more perspective on the low-quality of the previous relationships. It's a good but difficult lesson on not accepting crappy treatment in your personal relationships.
Anonymous
10/21/2022 07:43
Subject: 6th grade DD is being excluded from social events with longtime friends
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:She needs to diversify friends. Never a good idea to have all eggs in one basket for this very reason. When this was happening with my DD it was b/c she wasn't mature enough at the time: still enjoyed kid things, wasn't interested in boys, etc. And that's fine. But . . .
It's still a jerk move for the kids.
It's a jerk move for the parents, who ABSOLUTELY know.
As long as their jerk kids are included, the jerk moms don't care that yours is not. Fact. And any attempts to call them on it will backfire on you and your kid. I've seen it happen a million times with other kids (not my own as I know better).
If you're recoiling at the word jerk, it's b/c you are one. Do better. Teach your kids better. You don't have to include everyone all the time. But these kids are openly excluding. Either speak up about why or quit being jerks.
Yeah. Unfortunately, this is true. Once the Queen Bee has targeted someone, there is really nothing that can be done, but help the kid find a new group. And, OF COURSE the parents know. If 6 of them get in a car as a group that used to be 7, they notice. The parents don't care b/c it's not happening to their kid. It's gross.
This happened to my daughter in 7th. Girl went out of her way to make my daughters life miserable and isolate her from her former friend group. Girls mom even joined in. Lots of queen bees here who raise little queen bees. Your daughter is going to have to move on to a different friend group.
I'm the PP and I overlooked this post when responding, but I could not have said this better. What we see is that the moms drive some of this. Maybe they had bad years in high school/middle school? And, in my DD's case, we aren't even talking about a "popular" kid, but someone who really wants to be...But, apple doesn't fall far from tree.
This definitely happens but personally I doubt it in this case, since OP is friends with the moms and has been for YEARS.
More likely than the girls have grown apart from OP’s daughter and don’t know how to disengage diplomatically.
Anonymous
10/21/2022 07:40
Subject: 6th grade DD is being excluded from social events with longtime friends
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Mean kids suck and their mean parents suck worse.
I'm so sorry OP. We too have BTDT.
So once your kid is friends with someone, they are obligated to be their friend forever? And as a parent, you must force the friendship to continue or you are even more "mean"?
Here’s the queen bee mom.
Not an answer to her question though.