Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yes that is the problem and brand new teachers who have all the education and credentials don’t know how to do that either. They don’t do a good job of teaching it during college so they have to learn in the job from experienced teachers (and it’s freaking hard so a lot of them never do it well).

And don’t tell me a new teacher has never cried because they were overwhelmed. That is a normal thing to do.

But the new teachers who have been through a licensure program have the theoretical understanding and the child development knowledge as a starting point. They have also had months of student teaching to learn the very basics. Someone with none of that is going to be a trainwreck and the experienced teachers are not going to do a single thing to support unlicensed and untrained people in teaching positions.

Sadly a lot of the child development they learn is outdated and wrong. I do think that something like student teaching is very important. I think it would be very bad if experienced teachers didn't support those who became licensed through non-traditional paths. I don't know why they wouldn't do that? Spite?

What do you mean by “support”? I “support” people who are equipped at a baseline with content mastery and an understanding of children and their needs and the legal requirements of our job to become teachers even as career switchers. But even they have education hours and courses they have to take and that’s for a good reason. I would not support any random person walking into a classroom out of the military with zero other education training or specific content knowledge and just being allowed to “teach” because they wouldn’t be. They don’t know how. Teaching is not just handing out papers and babysitting. And more often than not, “supporting” those kinds of career switchers would look like actual teachers having to coach, mentor, and provide materials and resources for the career switchers while not being paid anything additional for it. You don’t think admin is doing that do you?

+1 Having to coddle and train unqualified people makes the job of teaching and other professional positions even more difficult. You're not paid to coach and mentor these unqualified people and you're likely doing it after hours since there's no time in the school day. Unfortunately, this has become typical since the pandemic. It's a downward spiral.

Well how do you support those who have taken courses? I was thinking of a teacher asking "hey I have this specific issue with a student that has me stumped, what would you do?" and then offering advice. I think how much you offer support is 100% dependent on your own boundaries, I just don't know why a teacher would withhold the same support they would give somebody who has taken coursework from somebody who hasn't. It just seems to me like some teachers sort of want to freeze out these newer teachers not just out of their own time and energy constraints, but out of spite.

I wouldn’t spitefully withhold support. It’s that what they would require would far, far exceed what I could give. My district deems that new teachers who are licensed should receive at minimum an hour of direct support each week. In my experience, it is closer to three hours per week.. And this is for people who know what the SOLs are, who have practiced writing lesson plans, who have the basics of classroom routines, procedures, and expectations, and know what it means to teach a child to learn to read, write, and do math. They have the basics, but they need to learn how to apply them: when to bump a kid up to the next reading level and when to stay the course, when to address a student behavior privately and when to ignore it, or how to handle the child study process when a concern has arisen.

A new, unlicensed teacher would start at zero. They would be operating based on what they think teaching is, and not on what we know about how kids learn.
They would need to learn what the content is, how a lesson should be structured, what kinds of assessments are expected and how to construct them, how to create a reliable rubric, what the process of reading actually entails, how to teach math in a way kids understand, what is developmentally appropriate in reading, writing, speaking, and listening, and on and on.

A licensed teacher has read, discussed, thought about, and been critiqued on their ideas about teaching. An unlicensed teacher is a wild card.

What's the issue? We don't need teachers with PhDs to care for certain kids who are only there for daycare

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yes that is the problem and brand new teachers who have all the education and credentials don’t know how to do that either. They don’t do a good job of teaching it during college so they have to learn in the job from experienced teachers (and it’s freaking hard so a lot of them never do it well).

And don’t tell me a new teacher has never cried because they were overwhelmed. That is a normal thing to do.

But the new teachers who have been through a licensure program have the theoretical understanding and the child development knowledge as a starting point. They have also had months of student teaching to learn the very basics. Someone with none of that is going to be a trainwreck and the experienced teachers are not going to do a single thing to support unlicensed and untrained people in teaching positions.

Sadly a lot of the child development they learn is outdated and wrong. I do think that something like student teaching is very important. I think it would be very bad if experienced teachers didn't support those who became licensed through non-traditional paths. I don't know why they wouldn't do that? Spite?

What do you mean by “support”? I “support” people who are equipped at a baseline with content mastery and an understanding of children and their needs and the legal requirements of our job to become teachers even as career switchers. But even they have education hours and courses they have to take and that’s for a good reason. I would not support any random person walking into a classroom out of the military with zero other education training or specific content knowledge and just being allowed to “teach” because they wouldn’t be. They don’t know how. Teaching is not just handing out papers and babysitting. And more often than not, “supporting” those kinds of career switchers would look like actual teachers having to coach, mentor, and provide materials and resources for the career switchers while not being paid anything additional for it. You don’t think admin is doing that do you?

Well how do you support those who have taken courses? I was thinking of a teacher asking "hey I have this specific issue with a student that has me stumped, what would you do?" and then offering advice. I think how much you offer support is 100% dependent on your own boundaries, I just don't know why a teacher would withhold the same support they would give somebody who has taken coursework from somebody who hasn't. It just seems to me like some teachers sort of want to freeze out these newer teachers not just out of their own time and energy constraints, but out of spite.

Youngkin's executive order mandates that the secretary of education will put forth legislative proposals to reduce license requirements. I don't know what that commission will come up with, but I don't think they would allow anybody to teach who has no content mastery, no understanding of children and their needs, and a belief that teaching is just handing out papers and babysitting. It also says the secretary of education will establish an apprenticeship program, so that would give would-be teachers some experience.

I know you can't really trust the same politician who set up a CRT hotline and is pro-charter schools to do what is in the best interest of the profession, but this just doesn't seem that bad to me.

It doesn't seem that bad to you, whose only explanation for why teachers wouldn't support unqualified newcomers is spite.

It doesn't seem that bad to you, who breezily refers to "apprentices" without examining the nature of an apprenticeship.

It doesn't seem that bad to you, who think Youngkin's secretary of education is going to be operating out of a commitment to public education and evidence-based decisions