Anonymous wrote:There are a lot of folks in this thread with year round swimmers who are arguing for the age up change because their children are being disadvantaged in a recreational summer swim league.

What would level the playing field the most for the majority of kids is not changing the age up date, but instead prohibiting club swimmers from participating in recreational summer swim leagues. There are tons of other sports that prohibit club kids from participating in rec leagues. Swim is one that doesn’t. I’m mostly kidding, but it does appear from this 9 page thread that it’s the club swim parents who are upset by the age up date.

This sounds like a great idea. Divisions 1-5 will agree. Families paying for private swim clubs will agree. Get rid of all star relays bc after 8 they won’t be anything without strong club swimmers. Just call them the ymca.

Anonymous wrote:Seriously, let it go. All of this for summer swim. The August cut off idea just "benefits" the August birthday kids and makes it worse for the July ones. The June date makes it harder for May and better for June, I guess. This is so stupid. Your kid won't win every year. Accept it.

There are always going to be kids with a birthday that is better for a particular part of the swim season. I think what creates more of an issue with summer swim is that there are kids that are older than the age group they are participating in. My kid has a good JO birthday and a bad summer swim birthday, but her good JO birthday doesn’t mean that she’s still competing in the 10U category after she turns 11. While changing the age up date might be advantageous for the august birthday kid, at least the august birthday kid is in the correct age group, even if they are about to age out. It’s also patently absurd for college students to be participating in kids’ summer rec swim. If you are 18 and have already spent a year at college (let alone swam in college), I’m sorry but you should not be participating.

There are a lot of folks in this thread with year round swimmers who are arguing for the age up change because their children are being disadvantaged in a recreational summer swim league.

What would level the playing field the most for the majority of kids is not changing the age up date, but instead prohibiting club swimmers from participating in recreational summer swim leagues. There are tons of other sports that prohibit club kids from participating in rec leagues. Swim is one that doesn’t. I’m mostly kidding, but it does appear from this 9 page thread that it’s the club swim parents who are upset by the age up date.

Anonymous wrote:And moving the birthday cut-off date to August 1st would put all of them in their actual age group.

No. Kids would be aging up early.

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Anonymous wrote:I am amazed how you know all these other kids birthdays. I know the birthday of my kid and the kids of my 2 friends that go to our pool. My kid did all star relays yesterday and I have no idea the birthdays/ages of the other kids in her relay. Maybe u all should volunteer your time in better ways towards the swim team as a while rather than worrying about birthdays.

There are parents who stalk the website that lists the scores/information of the kids online. They monitor all the times/ages. Its a bit creepy.

Actually, all the kids know each other's birthdays. If you think they aren't aware of who the "aged up" kids swimming in the younger group are, you're really wrong. It stinks to lose a relay or divisional spot to a kid who is older than their age group. The mixed age relay is a big sore spot for a lot of teams for this exact reason.

Our mixed age consisted of a 9-10, who was actually 10, an 11-12 who was 13, a 13-14 who was actually 15 and an 18 year old.

Half of the mixed age kids were actually a year older and you can TELL. They looked like giants compared to the kids in the actual age group and are in an older grade. The 13 year old was the only middle school kid in 11-12. It is just weird.

Ours was:

19 year old girl swimming as an 18 yr old (division 1 practices all year)

14 year old swimming as a 13 year old

13 year old swimming as a 12 year old

11 year old swimming as a 10 year old

Which, honestly, if it’s supposed to be for fun, let kids who are the actual age have a chance to swim relays. Especially if kids were aging up as the summer progressed, this would give a lot more kids a shot at it.

Fwiw, my kids swim in MCSL so the relays are different but not one spot went to an older-than-age-swimmer and some were even young age (11 instead of 12). They never lost - and in a competitive division. So it does happen. Imo, folks are making too big a deal about this (and none of my kids benefit from the current rule).

Anonymous wrote:Any team is allowed to propose rule changes, then all the teams vote by Division (I think). I remember seeing those documents sent by our team rep for opinions before previous voting. So if you really care that much, talk to your team rep about floating age ups, or an August 1st cut-off, or whatever other ideas are flying around.

Thanks for this! I am going to raise it with our team rep.

I have a winter swimmer (may bday) and the summer birthday wasn't really an issue in the summer until the child turned 13 and this year was a struggle as he hasn't hit puberty and he did not find this summer fun at all.

But honestly I'm not sure if changing the other birthdays would have made a difference -- it is just a tough place to be and the 50 distance is especially hard for the late growers.

Seriously, let it go. All of this for summer swim. The August cut off idea just "benefits" the August birthday kids and makes it worse for the July ones. The June date makes it harder for May and better for June, I guess. This is so stupid. Your kid won't win every year. Accept it.

Any team is allowed to propose rule changes, then all the teams vote by Division (I think). I remember seeing those documents sent by our team rep for opinions before previous voting. So if you really care that much, talk to your team rep about floating age ups, or an August 1st cut-off, or whatever other ideas are flying around.

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Anonymous wrote:I am amazed how you know all these other kids birthdays. I know the birthday of my kid and the kids of my 2 friends that go to our pool. My kid did all star relays yesterday and I have no idea the birthdays/ages of the other kids in her relay. Maybe u all should volunteer your time in better ways towards the swim team as a while rather than worrying about birthdays.

There are parents who stalk the website that lists the scores/information of the kids online. They monitor all the times/ages. Its a bit creepy.

Actually, all the kids know each other's birthdays. If you think they aren't aware of who the "aged up" kids swimming in the younger group are, you're really wrong. It stinks to lose a relay or divisional spot to a kid who is older than their age group. The mixed age relay is a big sore spot for a lot of teams for this exact reason.

Our mixed age consisted of a 9-10, who was actually 10, an 11-12 who was 13, a 13-14 who was actually 15 and an 18 year old.

Half of the mixed age kids were actually a year older and you can TELL. They looked like giants compared to the kids in the actual age group and are in an older grade. The 13 year old was the only middle school kid in 11-12. It is just weird.

Ours was:

19 year old girl swimming as an 18 yr old (division 1 practices all year)

14 year old swimming as a 13 year old

13 year old swimming as a 12 year old

11 year old swimming as a 10 year old

Which, honestly, if it’s supposed to be for fun, let kids who are the actual age have a chance to swim relays. Especially if kids were aging up as the summer progressed, this would give a lot more kids a shot at it.

And moving the birthday cut-off date to August 1st would put all of them in their actual age group.

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Anonymous wrote:I am amazed how you know all these other kids birthdays. I know the birthday of my kid and the kids of my 2 friends that go to our pool. My kid did all star relays yesterday and I have no idea the birthdays/ages of the other kids in her relay. Maybe u all should volunteer your time in better ways towards the swim team as a while rather than worrying about birthdays.

There are parents who stalk the website that lists the scores/information of the kids online. They monitor all the times/ages. Its a bit creepy.

Actually, all the kids know each other's birthdays. If you think they aren't aware of who the "aged up" kids swimming in the younger group are, you're really wrong. It stinks to lose a relay or divisional spot to a kid who is older than their age group. The mixed age relay is a big sore spot for a lot of teams for this exact reason.

Our mixed age consisted of a 9-10, who was actually 10, an 11-12 who was 13, a 13-14 who was actually 15 and an 18 year old.

Half of the mixed age kids were actually a year older and you can TELL. They looked like giants compared to the kids in the actual age group and are in an older grade. The 13 year old was the only middle school kid in 11-12. It is just weird.

Ours was:

19 year old girl swimming as an 18 yr old (division 1 practices all year)

14 year old swimming as a 13 year old

13 year old swimming as a 12 year old

11 year old swimming as a 10 year old

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Anonymous wrote:You swim mommies are annoying AF. Such whiners. It is a sport where they swim the length of a pool and back. Who gives a crap about the birthdays. Can you not make anything fun? Is everything a competition in your poor kids life? Swim team is supposed to be enjoyable. Parents ruin everything

I cannot like this post enough! Thank you, summer swim is for fun and its a short little season with short distances so that it is accessibly to all kids. It's weird that people bring winter swim examples into this at all. The vast majority of summer swim kids don't swim year round. They are there to cheer, have fun and hang out with friends.

For some kids, it’s a record that they could break or a meet they could make or a relay they could be on but for…

It’s the rule. It 100% favors some kids. It won’t change so we have to accept it. But for a club swimmer who works hard all year, it’s a tough thing to accept when you see a kid break an NVSL record and he’s already the next age and your club swimmer, who swims nearly an identical time but was born 2 weeks earlier, it’s much more than a 25 meter swim. For a club swimmer with a bad swim birthday, that birthday haunts them for nearly every meet, all year.

and the boy who holds every 15-18 record set all of the records when he was 16. So stop think that age has everything to do with it.

One thing I noticed at all stars and seeing the kids on the podium was that swimmers come in all shapes and sizes. The kids who are physically bigger aren't always the fastest.

Age also doesn't predict physical maturity or puberty. Some kids hit puberty later and some earlier. Are we going to start testing testosterone levels now too?

Taking breaststroke, shorter kids at all stars are the exception, not the rule…esp for the top 6. Sure I saw shorter kids at the all star steps for older kids but not many. 13-14 girls, maybe 2-3 out of 18. Boys? Maybe 2.

Anonymous wrote:If league age was age as of August 1st many of the problems identified in this thread disappear. Not sure why they didn't make that the cut-off years ago.

Because then a kid with an august 2 birthday would benefit and could swim up at all stars which it usually in august.

Any way you slice it some kids will always be older and some will always be younger. That is life. Before in one sport May not exist in another.

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Anonymous wrote:My kid has a mid july birthday and this was his first year doing summer swim. He loved it and turned 8 this year so yes, next year he will be one of the oldest kids in the division and will have a great chance at getting some good times and places next year when he swims in the 8&U as a 8y11m old. But you know what, they've never had a birthday with their friends since everyone is gone at that time so he had a great day celebrating his birthday with his swim team friends at a meet. They will also be one of the last ones to get their drivers license etc from their grade-mates, etc. So let them have this one opportunity to enjoy it

But this is not swim. Swim has you competing against kids that are your age. This was not the way NVSL used to be when I grew up swimming here. You aged up when you -- oh, AGED up.

When did you start swimming because this was the rule in 1965 as posted in a link to the only rule book from back then. Unless they change it and then change it back…