Anonymous
Post 09/23/2022 14:11     Subject: What can be done to level the playing field?
What SHOULD happen is that all money for education (obtained from taxes) is entered into one pot of money and distributed EQUALLY. It is asinine that the quality of supplies, equipment, and facilities a school has is based on how much the parents make.
Anonymous
Post 09/23/2022 12:41     Subject: Re:What can be done to level the playing field?
Anonymous wrote:Whenever schools are mentioned and equity is mentioned, it always seems to be for African Americans. No other ethnic group struggles the way this group does.

I have seen African immigrants excel. I have seen uneducated refugees from all over the world work hard and succeed. The US has so many opportunities. You have to take advantage of the opportunities.


I wonder why that could possibly be....what have African Americans experienced that no other ethnic group has... let's think....
Anonymous
Post 09/23/2022 12:11     Subject: Re:What can be done to level the playing field?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am a child of poor Asian immigrants. I hated being poor. My parents taught me that with education, you can move from the bottom to the top. I was a free lunch kid. I had to translate for my parents. I filled out all their forms. We now have a seven figure income. I still have to make phone calls, translate and fill out all their forms.

The child has to want change.

I have friends from childhood who blame their parents or racism. They think it isn’t fair for X reason. Others don’t make excuses and just worked hard.


I have met some of the Afghan evacuation refugees and so many of children are just like you were. They have learned English so quickly - for survival really. They are the translators. This 9yo girl was sent along with her mother to an even l was giving her a ride to and she came as her translator.



I am a child of poor Russian immigrants and same. All of it. I grew up so fast and learned the language and I am now a successful adult. As are my parents who worked their butts off.


My child is in an AT program at a high FARMS school. We are white UMC. But the majority of school isn’t. The AT program is filled with middle eastern and southeast Asian immigrants or first generation, whose parents put high expectations on education and academic success. You can’t level the playing field, it is all about parenting and expectations. There are high academic opportunities all over in every school district for kids to take advantage of regardless of income
Anonymous
Post 09/23/2022 10:05     Subject: Re:What can be done to level the playing field?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Whenever schools are mentioned and equity is mentioned, it always seems to be for African Americans. No other ethnic group struggles the way this group does.

I have seen African immigrants excel. I have seen uneducated refugees from all over the world work hard and succeed. The US has so many opportunities. You have to take advantage of the opportunities.


Because people who descended from slavery have generations of trauma epigenetically encoded into their genome.
Even when slaves were freed, they were sent out with no money to survive on their own in a country that still treated them as subhuman. Family networks so critical to survival were not intact.. Slaves weren’t taught to read, so of course they weren’t reading books to their kids. Poverty itself affects brain development. It’s a very deep hole to try to climb out of.


You need to do a bit more in-depth research on each of these assertions before you try to design education policy.


Education and social science are science devoid of scientific rigor. The lack of standards makes statements like "Because people who descended from slavery have generations of trauma epigenetically encoded into their genome" possible
Anonymous
Post 09/23/2022 09:59     Subject: Re:What can be done to level the playing field?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Whenever schools are mentioned and equity is mentioned, it always seems to be for African Americans. No other ethnic group struggles the way this group does.

I have seen African immigrants excel. I have seen uneducated refugees from all over the world work hard and succeed. The US has so many opportunities. You have to take advantage of the opportunities.


Because people who descended from slavery have generations of trauma epigenetically encoded into their genome.
Even when slaves were freed, they were sent out with no money to survive on their own in a country that still treated them as subhuman. Family networks so critical to survival were not intact.. Slaves weren’t taught to read, so of course they weren’t reading books to their kids. Poverty itself affects brain development. It’s a very deep hole to try to climb out of.


You need to do a bit more in-depth research on each of these assertions before you try to design education policy.
Anonymous
Post 09/23/2022 08:28     Subject: Re:What can be done to level the playing field?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am a child of poor Asian immigrants. I hated being poor. My parents taught me that with education, you can move from the bottom to the top. I was a free lunch kid. I had to translate for my parents. I filled out all their forms. We now have a seven figure income. I still have to make phone calls, translate and fill out all their forms.

The child has to want change.

I have friends from childhood who blame their parents or racism. They think it isn’t fair for X reason. Others don’t make excuses and just worked hard.


I have met some of the Afghan evacuation refugees and so many of children are just like you were. They have learned English so quickly - for survival really. They are the translators. This 9yo girl was sent along with her mother to an even l was giving her a ride to and she came as her translator.



I am a child of poor Russian immigrants and same. All of it. I grew up so fast and learned the language and I am now a successful adult. As are my parents who worked their butts off.
Anonymous
Post 09/23/2022 08:10     Subject: What can be done to level the playing field?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:How about closing the achievement gap from the top down by eliminating so-called “gifted and talented” programs like NYC has done?


I would suggest going the opposite direction and try to meet all children where they are when possible.


But the GT programs are elitist and cater only to the privileged.


I guess that's one way of looking at it. Another is meeting each kid where they are to ensure all children receive an appropriate education.


But that is the exact opposite of the current, equity theory of “cooperative learning,” which seeks to eliminate both G&T and remedial programs, and lump all students into one classroom.

Under cooperative learning, the schools eliminate separate G&T programs so they can use the G&T students as unpaid tutors for the remedial and special ed students. Proponents of cooperative learning point to studies that show a whole school’s mean test scores can increase through cooperative learning (although the scores of high achievers will decrease). Cooperative learning is touted as more equitable.
Anonymous
Post 09/23/2022 08:04     Subject: What can be done to level the playing field?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:How about closing the achievement gap from the top down by eliminating so-called “gifted and talented” programs like NYC has done?


I would suggest going the opposite direction and try to meet all children where they are when possible.


But the GT programs are elitist and cater only to the privileged.


What if we reconceived what "gifted and talented" means and designed better programs that that didn't just cater to privileged people?

But this gets at what I actually think we need to do, which is alter our priorities around education. We focus too much on getting all children to meet academic standards that don't always reflect the skills needed in adulthood, and need not be consistent across the board. I'd be interested in more tracking programs like they have in Europe and Asia, where students are tracked not for "giftedness" but based on aptitude and interest in different sorts of education and career goals.

I also think we have weird values systems in the US where we treat some fields as significantly better or more worthwhile than others as though it is feasible or desirable to have an entire nation of engineers or lawyers. It's not! I think we need to find a way to have actual cultural appreciation for a broader range of fields. This is not even just based on money, either, because for instance many industries get very little respect but are actually highly paid (many of the trades, for instance). I have seen parents who work in less-respected fields like teaching or trade work who become obsessed with their kids going into high status field regardless of aptitude or interest. It's silly and serves no one.

Of course, if we had a robust social benefits system it would also be easier for people to choose lower paying and lower status fields out of interest and aptitude because they wouldn't have to worry about needing a certain kind of job in order to pay off their loans/pay for they children to go to school/get healthcare. Subsidize education and healthcare and a lot of fields that don't currently appeal would magically get more appealing.


I agree that tracking is the way to go. Bring back vocational technology programs, and even high schools.
Anonymous
Post 09/23/2022 07:16     Subject: What can be done to level the playing field?
I’m getting to the point where I think it’s better to just give poor families more cash. You need to help the parents to help the kids, so help the whole family by giving them more cash. Then the kids do better in school when the family isn’t so stressed.

I think that’s the reason why FARMs is one of the few programs that worked. It focused on the child’s well being and in some ways helped the parents too.

The expanded child tax credit seemed to be helping, so maybe do more of that. By all accounts it seemed to be doing more to lift families out of poverty than anything we’ve done in years.

Other things have a tendency to get bogged down in waste, corruption, and bureaucracy with TANF being the poster child. Scrap it and turn it into a child tax credit.

Make new ideas prove they are more beneficial than giving families direct cash.
Anonymous
Post 09/22/2022 22:39     Subject: Re:What can be done to level the playing field?
Anonymous wrote:Whenever schools are mentioned and equity is mentioned, it always seems to be for African Americans. No other ethnic group struggles the way this group does.

I have seen African immigrants excel. I have seen uneducated refugees from all over the world work hard and succeed. The US has so many opportunities. You have to take advantage of the opportunities.


Because people who descended from slavery have generations of trauma epigenetically encoded into their genome.
Even when slaves were freed, they were sent out with no money to survive on their own in a country that still treated them as subhuman. Family networks so critical to survival were not intact.. Slaves weren’t taught to read, so of course they weren’t reading books to their kids. Poverty itself affects brain development. It’s a very deep hole to try to climb out of.
Anonymous
Post 09/22/2022 18:14     Subject: What can be done to level the playing field?
Some people will only be satisfied if we go full Harrison Bergeron. It's the only way to have true equity.
Anonymous
Post 09/22/2022 16:38     Subject: What can be done to level the playing field?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:How about closing the achievement gap from the top down by eliminating so-called “gifted and talented” programs like NYC has done?


I would suggest going the opposite direction and try to meet all children where they are when possible.


But the GT programs are elitist and cater only to the privileged.


I guess that's one way of looking at it. Another is meeting each kid where they are to ensure all children receive an appropriate education.
Anonymous
Post 09/22/2022 15:47     Subject: What can be done to level the playing field?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:How about closing the achievement gap from the top down by eliminating so-called “gifted and talented” programs like NYC has done?


I would suggest going the opposite direction and try to meet all children where they are when possible.


But the GT programs are elitist and cater only to the privileged.


What if we reconceived what "gifted and talented" means and designed better programs that that didn't just cater to privileged people?

But this gets at what I actually think we need to do, which is alter our priorities around education. We focus too much on getting all children to meet academic standards that don't always reflect the skills needed in adulthood, and need not be consistent across the board. I'd be interested in more tracking programs like they have in Europe and Asia, where students are tracked not for "giftedness" but based on aptitude and interest in different sorts of education and career goals.

I also think we have weird values systems in the US where we treat some fields as significantly better or more worthwhile than others as though it is feasible or desirable to have an entire nation of engineers or lawyers. It's not! I think we need to find a way to have actual cultural appreciation for a broader range of fields. This is not even just based on money, either, because for instance many industries get very little respect but are actually highly paid (many of the trades, for instance). I have seen parents who work in less-respected fields like teaching or trade work who become obsessed with their kids going into high status field regardless of aptitude or interest. It's silly and serves no one.

Of course, if we had a robust social benefits system it would also be easier for people to choose lower paying and lower status fields out of interest and aptitude because they wouldn't have to worry about needing a certain kind of job in order to pay off their loans/pay for they children to go to school/get healthcare. Subsidize education and healthcare and a lot of fields that don't currently appeal would magically get more appealing.
Anonymous
Post 09/22/2022 15:33     Subject: What can be done to level the playing field?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:How about closing the achievement gap from the top down by eliminating so-called “gifted and talented” programs like NYC has done?


I would suggest going the opposite direction and try to meet all children where they are when possible.


But the GT programs are elitist and cater only to the privileged.
Anonymous
Post 09/22/2022 15:31     Subject: What can be done to level the playing field?
Anonymous wrote:How about closing the achievement gap from the top down by eliminating so-called “gifted and talented” programs like NYC has done?


I would suggest going the opposite direction and try to meet all children where they are when possible.