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Anonymous wrote:We refinanced to a 2.875% 30 year conforming mortgage during the first year of the pandemic. It's still a great decision because there are very few areas where we can get that kind of leverage and invest the rest in the stock market. Oh and we have a PITI ~$3K and nearly $1 million in home equity ($1.5 million home). With inflation where it is, having low cost, long term fixed debt is a great "investment". Right now, I can invest our cash in a high earning account! It has nothing to do with living beyond our means. It's the equivalent of shorting Treasuries.

I’m one that is absolutely in favor of the 15 year route. That being said, well played…assuming you’re being truthful. I refinanced with a cash-out refinance mortgage from a 15 year to a 30 year with the sole objective of having money to invest in growth equities post-COVID crash. My monthly payment didn’t change, but I walked away with more than $1M in cash that I turned around and invested in the market a few months back. Portfolio is already up from $1M to $1.7M.

I'm the PP. I think a 15 year is fine but it reduces your flexibility and only provided 40-50 bps of interest rate savings relative to a 30-year (at least at the time I was considering a refi). For some, a 15-year is a good way to create forced savings if you lack discipline elsewhere in your financial budget. While I could save a little on interest, I figured having the flexibility to accelerate the paydown on a 30-year (to make it a 15) was better optionality. However, since inflation spiked, I've stopped all prepayments. I am happy to make my minimum fixed payment each month and if inflation continues at an elevated rate, it will look better and better with time That's our only debt and with a PITI of ~$3K, it's lower than we'd ever get for an equivalent apartment in our area of Montgomery County.

Our 15 year payment was lower than the 30 we originally had when we refinanced as the interest rate was lower. We always pay extra to principal. Cannot wait to pay it off.

Why? If it's a good rate, you're better served saving the excess cash and using it to invest in the market long term. For us, paying a 2.875% interest rate that is also tax deductible is much lower than the long-term return on other investments. I get that there is a psychology benefit to being completely debt free. However, "good" debt with modest leverage can actually enhance your returns.

It’s not really tax deductible depending on how much you pay in interest. We don’t see any benefit in our taxes. We also max out retirement, good amount in college funds and integer. Why not do it all? Out interest at this point Is a few hundred a month. Why not pay it off and take the entire payment and invest!

OK PP, I agree with you that if you have unlimited funds, you should not have a mortgage.

Seriously, it's a stupid question if you have so much money that you don't need to finance a home. That said, even the ultra wealthy use low cost debt to finance real estate, private equity, and even their market equity investments. Berkshire and other insurance companies do the same with float on liabilities because it enhances returns. I don't see what is so hard to understand. OP and the PP just don't like the fact that paying down debt isn't always a good investment strategy.

This. A friend who cashed out in tech and retried at 30 took out very low rate student loans for his daughter’s college because his money could earn more invested than the loan interest.

OP is clearly a troll, but this would be more fun if they understood money better.

You know you’re dealing with an unemployed SAHM when the troll accusations start to fly in the absence of a definitive counterexample. You should have just regressed to delivering a repartee more in line with your IQ. Perhaps, “OP is a meanie!! I’m telling teacher!!” Or maybe, “Look, mommy, I used the potty by myself.” No, still too advanced, more like, “Goo goo ga ga!!!” Yeah, that resonates.

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Anonymous wrote:We refinanced to a 2.875% 30 year conforming mortgage during the first year of the pandemic. It's still a great decision because there are very few areas where we can get that kind of leverage and invest the rest in the stock market. Oh and we have a PITI ~$3K and nearly $1 million in home equity ($1.5 million home). With inflation where it is, having low cost, long term fixed debt is a great "investment". Right now, I can invest our cash in a high earning account! It has nothing to do with living beyond our means. It's the equivalent of shorting Treasuries.

I’m one that is absolutely in favor of the 15 year route. That being said, well played…assuming you’re being truthful. I refinanced with a cash-out refinance mortgage from a 15 year to a 30 year with the sole objective of having money to invest in growth equities post-COVID crash. My monthly payment didn’t change, but I walked away with more than $1M in cash that I turned around and invested in the market a few months back. Portfolio is already up from $1M to $1.7M.

I'm the PP. I think a 15 year is fine but it reduces your flexibility and only provided 40-50 bps of interest rate savings relative to a 30-year (at least at the time I was considering a refi). For some, a 15-year is a good way to create forced savings if you lack discipline elsewhere in your financial budget. While I could save a little on interest, I figured having the flexibility to accelerate the paydown on a 30-year (to make it a 15) was better optionality. However, since inflation spiked, I've stopped all prepayments. I am happy to make my minimum fixed payment each month and if inflation continues at an elevated rate, it will look better and better with time That's our only debt and with a PITI of ~$3K, it's lower than we'd ever get for an equivalent apartment in our area of Montgomery County.

Our 15 year payment was lower than the 30 we originally had when we refinanced as the interest rate was lower. We always pay extra to principal. Cannot wait to pay it off.

Why? If it's a good rate, you're better served saving the excess cash and using it to invest in the market long term. For us, paying a 2.875% interest rate that is also tax deductible is much lower than the long-term return on other investments. I get that there is a psychology benefit to being completely debt free. However, "good" debt with modest leverage can actually enhance your returns.

It’s not really tax deductible depending on how much you pay in interest. We don’t see any benefit in our taxes. We also max out retirement, good amount in college funds and integer. Why not do it all? Out interest at this point Is a few hundred a month. Why not pay it off and take the entire payment and invest!

OK PP, I agree with you that if you have unlimited funds, you should not have a mortgage.

Seriously, it's a stupid question if you have so much money that you don't need to finance a home. That said, even the ultra wealthy use low cost debt to finance real estate, private equity, and even their market equity investments. Berkshire and other insurance companies do the same with float on liabilities because it enhances returns. I don't see what is so hard to understand. OP and the PP just don't like the fact that paying down debt isn't always a good investment strategy.

Actually, I think it’s more like OP and PP don’t like the fact that so many people in DMV are taking out unnecessarily large and long duration mortgages to advance their own financial positions at the expense of MC and UMC people that truly depend on these financial instruments. While honest, hardworking people were struggling to get the attention of loan officers and underwriters, the D.C. elite rich was monopolizing all available bandwidth and funds at the banks and, in turn, driving demand and available rates into an upward spiral.

I’m not willing to borrow more money than I need just because I can and because it’s best for me me me. These smug 30 year advocates are the same ones that emptied grocery stores in early 2020; stocked their homes with toilet paper, hand cleaner, and face masks so none was available to those in need; and hoarded and stockpiled 55 gallon drums of gasoline when the colonial pipeline was hacked in 2021. Absolutely disgusting. And you’re all on here bragging about your lack of moral compass. It’s amazing how much more wealth you can create when you’re willing to take opportunities away from the less fortunate in our society.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What? No OP, anybody who didn't lock in an ultra-low 30-year fixed rate loan during inflationary times is stupid.

Long-term, fixed rate debt is a great hedge against inflation.

Let us know how that works out for you in a few years after we see a repeat of the 2008 housing bubble burst and your home price drops by 25%. Now you’re embarrassingly underwater. You also started pouring your newfound monthly wealth into the stock market, only to discover you started your foolish venture at an S&P 500 peak of 4800+. It took the S&P 500 7 years to regain ground after the dot-com bust. Then, it lost traction again in 2007 thanks to people like you leveraging themselves to the max. Some 12 years it took for the S&P 500 to recapture its value from before the dot-com bust. The annualized return over that period? 0%. A far cry from the 150% return that we theoretically should have seen over an average 12 year period.

Houses in the DC area didn't drop 25% in 2008. The only people who might be underwater if there is a 10% drop are those who bought in 2021 with no downpayment. And I don't think no downpayemnt loans are common these days like they were in 2008.

Exactly.

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Anonymous wrote:We refinanced to a 2.875% 30 year conforming mortgage during the first year of the pandemic. It's still a great decision because there are very few areas where we can get that kind of leverage and invest the rest in the stock market. Oh and we have a PITI ~$3K and nearly $1 million in home equity ($1.5 million home). With inflation where it is, having low cost, long term fixed debt is a great "investment". Right now, I can invest our cash in a high earning account! It has nothing to do with living beyond our means. It's the equivalent of shorting Treasuries.

I’m one that is absolutely in favor of the 15 year route. That being said, well played…assuming you’re being truthful. I refinanced with a cash-out refinance mortgage from a 15 year to a 30 year with the sole objective of having money to invest in growth equities post-COVID crash. My monthly payment didn’t change, but I walked away with more than $1M in cash that I turned around and invested in the market a few months back. Portfolio is already up from $1M to $1.7M.

I'm the PP. I think a 15 year is fine but it reduces your flexibility and only provided 40-50 bps of interest rate savings relative to a 30-year (at least at the time I was considering a refi). For some, a 15-year is a good way to create forced savings if you lack discipline elsewhere in your financial budget. While I could save a little on interest, I figured having the flexibility to accelerate the paydown on a 30-year (to make it a 15) was better optionality. However, since inflation spiked, I've stopped all prepayments. I am happy to make my minimum fixed payment each month and if inflation continues at an elevated rate, it will look better and better with time That's our only debt and with a PITI of ~$3K, it's lower than we'd ever get for an equivalent apartment in our area of Montgomery County.

Our 15 year payment was lower than the 30 we originally had when we refinanced as the interest rate was lower. We always pay extra to principal. Cannot wait to pay it off.

Why? If it's a good rate, you're better served saving the excess cash and using it to invest in the market long term. For us, paying a 2.875% interest rate that is also tax deductible is much lower than the long-term return on other investments. I get that there is a psychology benefit to being completely debt free. However, "good" debt with modest leverage can actually enhance your returns.

It’s not really tax deductible depending on how much you pay in interest. We don’t see any benefit in our taxes. We also max out retirement, good amount in college funds and integer. Why not do it all? Out interest at this point Is a few hundred a month. Why not pay it off and take the entire payment and invest!

OK PP, I agree with you that if you have unlimited funds, you should not have a mortgage.

Seriously, it's a stupid question if you have so much money that you don't need to finance a home. That said, even the ultra wealthy use low cost debt to finance real estate, private equity, and even their market equity investments. Berkshire and other insurance companies do the same with float on liabilities because it enhances returns. I don't see what is so hard to understand. OP and the PP just don't like the fact that paying down debt isn't always a good investment strategy.

This. A friend who cashed out in tech and retried at 30 took out very low rate student loans for his daughter’s college because his money could earn more invested than the loan interest.

OP is clearly a troll, but this would be more fun if they understood money better.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We refinanced to a 2.875% 30 year conforming mortgage during the first year of the pandemic. It's still a great decision because there are very few areas where we can get that kind of leverage and invest the rest in the stock market. Oh and we have a PITI ~$3K and nearly $1 million in home equity ($1.5 million home). With inflation where it is, having low cost, long term fixed debt is a great "investment". Right now, I can invest our cash in a high earning account! It has nothing to do with living beyond our means. It's the equivalent of shorting Treasuries.

I’m one that is absolutely in favor of the 15 year route. That being said, well played…assuming you’re being truthful. I refinanced with a cash-out refinance mortgage from a 15 year to a 30 year with the sole objective of having money to invest in growth equities post-COVID crash. My monthly payment didn’t change, but I walked away with more than $1M in cash that I turned around and invested in the market a few months back. Portfolio is already up from $1M to $1.7M.

I'm the PP. I think a 15 year is fine but it reduces your flexibility and only provided 40-50 bps of interest rate savings relative to a 30-year (at least at the time I was considering a refi). For some, a 15-year is a good way to create forced savings if you lack discipline elsewhere in your financial budget. While I could save a little on interest, I figured having the flexibility to accelerate the paydown on a 30-year (to make it a 15) was better optionality. However, since inflation spiked, I've stopped all prepayments. I am happy to make my minimum fixed payment each month and if inflation continues at an elevated rate, it will look better and better with time That's our only debt and with a PITI of ~$3K, it's lower than we'd ever get for an equivalent apartment in our area of Montgomery County.

Our 15 year payment was lower than the 30 we originally had when we refinanced as the interest rate was lower. We always pay extra to principal. Cannot wait to pay it off.

Why? If it's a good rate, you're better served saving the excess cash and using it to invest in the market long term. For us, paying a 2.875% interest rate that is also tax deductible is much lower than the long-term return on other investments. I get that there is a psychology benefit to being completely debt free. However, "good" debt with modest leverage can actually enhance your returns.

It’s not really tax deductible depending on how much you pay in interest. We don’t see any benefit in our taxes. We also max out retirement, good amount in college funds and integer. Why not do it all? Out interest at this point Is a few hundred a month. Why not pay it off and take the entire payment and invest!

OK PP, I agree with you that if you have unlimited funds, you should not have a mortgage.

Seriously, it's a stupid question if you have so much money that you don't need to finance a home. That said, even the ultra wealthy use low cost debt to finance real estate, private equity, and even their market equity investments. Berkshire and other insurance companies do the same with float on liabilities because it enhances returns. I don't see what is so hard to understand. OP and the PP just don't like the fact that paying down debt isn't always a good investment strategy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We refinanced to a 2.875% 30 year conforming mortgage during the first year of the pandemic. It's still a great decision because there are very few areas where we can get that kind of leverage and invest the rest in the stock market. Oh and we have a PITI ~$3K and nearly $1 million in home equity ($1.5 million home). With inflation where it is, having low cost, long term fixed debt is a great "investment". Right now, I can invest our cash in a high earning account! It has nothing to do with living beyond our means. It's the equivalent of shorting Treasuries.

I’m one that is absolutely in favor of the 15 year route. That being said, well played…assuming you’re being truthful. I refinanced with a cash-out refinance mortgage from a 15 year to a 30 year with the sole objective of having money to invest in growth equities post-COVID crash. My monthly payment didn’t change, but I walked away with more than $1M in cash that I turned around and invested in the market a few months back. Portfolio is already up from $1M to $1.7M.

I'm the PP. I think a 15 year is fine but it reduces your flexibility and only provided 40-50 bps of interest rate savings relative to a 30-year (at least at the time I was considering a refi). For some, a 15-year is a good way to create forced savings if you lack discipline elsewhere in your financial budget. While I could save a little on interest, I figured having the flexibility to accelerate the paydown on a 30-year (to make it a 15) was better optionality. However, since inflation spiked, I've stopped all prepayments. I am happy to make my minimum fixed payment each month and if inflation continues at an elevated rate, it will look better and better with time That's our only debt and with a PITI of ~$3K, it's lower than we'd ever get for an equivalent apartment in our area of Montgomery County.

Our 15 year payment was lower than the 30 we originally had when we refinanced as the interest rate was lower. We always pay extra to principal. Cannot wait to pay it off.

Why? If it's a good rate, you're better served saving the excess cash and using it to invest in the market long term. For us, paying a 2.875% interest rate that is also tax deductible is much lower than the long-term return on other investments. I get that there is a psychology benefit to being completely debt free. However, "good" debt with modest leverage can actually enhance your returns.

It’s not really tax deductible depending on how much you pay in interest. We don’t see any benefit in our taxes. We also max out retirement, good amount in college funds and integer. Why not do it all? Out interest at this point Is a few hundred a month. Why not pay it off and take the entire payment and invest!

OK PP, I agree with you that if you have unlimited funds, you should not have a mortgage.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What? No OP, anybody who didn't lock in an ultra-low 30-year fixed rate loan during inflationary times is stupid.

Long-term, fixed rate debt is a great hedge against inflation.

Let us know how that works out for you in a few years after we see a repeat of the 2008 housing bubble burst and your home price drops by 25%. Now you’re embarrassingly underwater. You also started pouring your newfound monthly wealth into the stock market, only to discover you started your foolish venture at an S&P 500 peak of 4800+. It took the S&P 500 7 years to regain ground after the dot-com bust. Then, it lost traction again in 2007 thanks to people like you leveraging themselves to the max. Some 12 years it took for the S&P 500 to recapture its value from before the dot-com bust. The annualized return over that period? 0%. A far cry from the 150% return that we theoretically should have seen over an average 12 year period.

We refinanced in the fall to a 2.275% rate. We purchased in 2020 just as the pandemic was getting started and the market was stopped.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We refinanced to a 2.875% 30 year conforming mortgage during the first year of the pandemic. It's still a great decision because there are very few areas where we can get that kind of leverage and invest the rest in the stock market. Oh and we have a PITI ~$3K and nearly $1 million in home equity ($1.5 million home). With inflation where it is, having low cost, long term fixed debt is a great "investment". Right now, I can invest our cash in a high earning account! It has nothing to do with living beyond our means. It's the equivalent of shorting Treasuries.

I’m one that is absolutely in favor of the 15 year route. That being said, well played…assuming you’re being truthful. I refinanced with a cash-out refinance mortgage from a 15 year to a 30 year with the sole objective of having money to invest in growth equities post-COVID crash. My monthly payment didn’t change, but I walked away with more than $1M in cash that I turned around and invested in the market a few months back. Portfolio is already up from $1M to $1.7M.

I'm the PP. I think a 15 year is fine but it reduces your flexibility and only provided 40-50 bps of interest rate savings relative to a 30-year (at least at the time I was considering a refi). For some, a 15-year is a good way to create forced savings if you lack discipline elsewhere in your financial budget. While I could save a little on interest, I figured having the flexibility to accelerate the paydown on a 30-year (to make it a 15) was better optionality. However, since inflation spiked, I've stopped all prepayments. I am happy to make my minimum fixed payment each month and if inflation continues at an elevated rate, it will look better and better with time That's our only debt and with a PITI of ~$3K, it's lower than we'd ever get for an equivalent apartment in our area of Montgomery County.

Our 15 year payment was lower than the 30 we originally had when we refinanced as the interest rate was lower. We always pay extra to principal. Cannot wait to pay it off.

Why? If it's a good rate, you're better served saving the excess cash and using it to invest in the market long term. For us, paying a 2.875% interest rate that is also tax deductible is much lower than the long-term return on other investments. I get that there is a psychology benefit to being completely debt free. However, "good" debt with modest leverage can actually enhance your returns.

It’s not really tax deductible depending on how much you pay in interest. We don’t see any benefit in our taxes. We also max out retirement, good amount in college funds and integer. Why not do it all? Out interest at this point Is a few hundred a month. Why not pay it off and take the entire payment and invest!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What? No OP, anybody who didn't lock in an ultra-low 30-year fixed rate loan during inflationary times is stupid.

Long-term, fixed rate debt is a great hedge against inflation.

Let us know how that works out for you in a few years after we see a repeat of the 2008 housing bubble burst and your home price drops by 25%. Now you’re embarrassingly underwater. You also started pouring your newfound monthly wealth into the stock market, only to discover you started your foolish venture at an S&P 500 peak of 4800+. It took the S&P 500 7 years to regain ground after the dot-com bust. Then, it lost traction again in 2007 thanks to people like you leveraging themselves to the max. Some 12 years it took for the S&P 500 to recapture its value from before the dot-com bust. The annualized return over that period? 0%. A far cry from the 150% return that we theoretically should have seen over an average 12 year period.

I'll be happy to. I'm the PP with a 2.875% mortgage with LTV of 0.33. Oh and we have a rental property worth close to $1 million (former residence) that has less than $350K remaining on a mortgage that is under 4%. I'm not too worried about it. Just another opportunity to put money to work.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What? No OP, anybody who didn't lock in an ultra-low 30-year fixed rate loan during inflationary times is stupid.

Long-term, fixed rate debt is a great hedge against inflation.

Let us know how that works out for you in a few years after we see a repeat of the 2008 housing bubble burst and your home price drops by 25%. Now you’re embarrassingly underwater. You also started pouring your newfound monthly wealth into the stock market, only to discover you started your foolish venture at an S&P 500 peak of 4800+. It took the S&P 500 7 years to regain ground after the dot-com bust. Then, it lost traction again in 2007 thanks to people like you leveraging themselves to the max. Some 12 years it took for the S&P 500 to recapture its value from before the dot-com bust. The annualized return over that period? 0%. A far cry from the 150% return that we theoretically should have seen over an average 12 year period.

It will work out fine over a 30-year period, that's why you invest for the long-term.

My house prices might drop, but in real terms, the amount of my mortgage payment drops too. Inflation was 9% over the last year. My monthly mortgage payment remained the same. In real terms, in just one year, my monthly mortgage payment declined 9%.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What? No OP, anybody who didn't lock in an ultra-low 30-year fixed rate loan during inflationary times is stupid.

Long-term, fixed rate debt is a great hedge against inflation.

Let us know how that works out for you in a few years after we see a repeat of the 2008 housing bubble burst and your home price drops by 25%. Now you’re embarrassingly underwater. You also started pouring your newfound monthly wealth into the stock market, only to discover you started your foolish venture at an S&P 500 peak of 4800+. It took the S&P 500 7 years to regain ground after the dot-com bust. Then, it lost traction again in 2007 thanks to people like you leveraging themselves to the max. Some 12 years it took for the S&P 500 to recapture its value from before the dot-com bust. The annualized return over that period? 0%. A far cry from the 150% return that we theoretically should have seen over an average 12 year period.

Houses in the DC area didn't drop 25% in 2008. The only people who might be underwater if there is a 10% drop are those who bought in 2021 with no downpayment. And I don't think no downpayemnt loans are common these days like they were in 2008.

Anonymous wrote:What? No OP, anybody who didn't lock in an ultra-low 30-year fixed rate loan during inflationary times is stupid.

Long-term, fixed rate debt is a great hedge against inflation.

Let us know how that works out for you in a few years after we see a repeat of the 2008 housing bubble burst and your home price drops by 25%. Now you’re embarrassingly underwater. You also started pouring your newfound monthly wealth into the stock market, only to discover you started your foolish venture at an S&P 500 peak of 4800+. It took the S&P 500 7 years to regain ground after the dot-com bust. Then, it lost traction again in 2007 thanks to people like you leveraging themselves to the max. Some 12 years it took for the S&P 500 to recapture its value from before the dot-com bust. The annualized return over that period? 0%. A far cry from the 150% return that we theoretically should have seen over an average 12 year period.

What? No OP, anybody who didn't lock in an ultra-low 30-year fixed rate loan during inflationary times is stupid.

Long-term, fixed rate debt is a great hedge against inflation.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not nearly the same picture as before, is it? In reality – and as substantiated by HHI affordability data from mortgage applications in the DMV over the past three years – almost all 30 year applicants are like Person C. So, yeah, pat yourself on the back for opening up some financial flexibility until you realize you’ve flexed your way into spending most of it to maintain pace with Person A, costing you more than $1M in lost net worth over 30 years.

This is DCUM, though, so everyone here professes to be in the top 0.5%. We’re all Person B, all raking in a 7 figure HHI, all sitting on an 8 figure net worth, and all driving 20 year old Toyota Camrys and Honda Pilots.

Except for me, who has admitted to being person B, insofar as I wouldn't even be able to max out rerirement with a 15 year mortgage. To put numbers to it: 150k gross income, 53k to 401ks/Roth IRAs, tax and HSA refunds to 529s. We live on 5-6k month net, depending on how you count post tax Roth contributions, for a family of 4 with day care. No, we're not blowing $500/month on fun stuff, if we had a 15 year mortgage it would come out of retirement savings.

To benefit from a 15 year, you have to *start out* with such a high income that you can also support other major savings/investment goals with a higher monthly payment. Drives me crazy that you can only be "financially responsible" in some people's minds if you START OUT with a ton of money. That's called a massive leg up.

We refinanced to a 15yr mortgage because it resulted in a lower monthly payment and a ridiculously low interest rate (below 2%!). I think it’s important to compare and do the math.

Although OP may have come across judgy, I do agree that if you’re living in a 1mil house it shouldn’t look like a grad’s student apartment. Some people on this forum are too quick to dismiss expensive clothes, furniture as a waste, and profess pride in buying cheap crap. Ikea can be okay, but we have to think about the true environmental costs of the low-priced items we are buying, materials used and production methods for example. I think those with HHI have a moral obligation to be as sustainable and environmentally conscious in their purchasing decisions as they can because they can afford it!