Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is the over-sharing. I don't need or want to hear about every problem you're having or ever had. Keep the drama to yourself.

it’s not drama to the person experiencing it—it’s their normal life and the only way they know to be, usually.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because everyone has limited bandwidth, and usually people are looking to spend their time with people who are easy and pleasant.

If someone is in your life for a reason - they're a longtime friend, they're an in-law, you work together, you share a hobby, etc - then you may have more capacity to deal with their quirks and difficulties.

But I think day to day, even people with easy lives or easy upbringings just don't have the space to manage people who are difficult for whatever reason. At least not long term.

Also if you grew up in a functional family, and have continued to live a pretty functional life, you may just not understand why the other person is behaving the way they do. So you may just write them off. Someone who's been through what you've been through would have a better understanding and perhaps more tolerance.

I'm sorry you're going through this.

I agree with this post and the post above listing four (very good) reasons for an empathy deficit. It is really hard for people from functional families to understand the damage that dysfunctional families do to people. My husband comes from a somewhat dysfunctional family, but after he experienced my parents and sister’s behavior (they of course lashed out at him) he was like “they’re insane.” It really took his shock at their behavior, his family’s shock at their behavior, and our Rabbi’s shock at their behavior leading up to our wedding to make me realize that the level of aggression and contempt I experienced for my entire life was not only not normal, it was toxic and intolerable. Going low/no contact and having firm boundaries has been so healthy for me. People with normal families don’t get that though. They’re like “call them up and talk it out.” They don’t understand that some people thrive of gaslighting, triangulation, and enmeshment. You can’t just sort things out with someone who thrives on the chaos they create. They will constantly suck you back in and drain you of your life force.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is the over-sharing. I don't need or want to hear about every problem you're having or ever had. Keep the drama to yourself.

it’s not drama to the person experiencing it—it’s their normal life and the only way they know to be, usually.

Anonymous wrote:Because everyone has limited bandwidth, and usually people are looking to spend their time with people who are easy and pleasant.

If someone is in your life for a reason - they're a longtime friend, they're an in-law, you work together, you share a hobby, etc - then you may have more capacity to deal with their quirks and difficulties.

But I think day to day, even people with easy lives or easy upbringings just don't have the space to manage people who are difficult for whatever reason. At least not long term.

Also if you grew up in a functional family, and have continued to live a pretty functional life, you may just not understand why the other person is behaving the way they do. So you may just write them off. Someone who's been through what you've been through would have a better understanding and perhaps more tolerance.

I'm sorry you're going through this.

Anonymous wrote:Because everyone has limited bandwidth, and usually people are looking to spend their time with people who are easy and pleasant.

If someone is in your life for a reason - they're a longtime friend, they're an in-law, you work together, you share a hobby, etc - then you may have more capacity to deal with their quirks and difficulties.

But I think day to day, even people with easy lives or easy upbringings just don't have the space to manage people who are difficult for whatever reason. At least not long term.

Also if you grew up in a functional family, and have continued to live a pretty functional life, you may just not understand why the other person is behaving the way they do. So you may just write them off. Someone who's been through what you've been through would have a better understanding and perhaps more tolerance.

I'm sorry you're going through this.

Anonymous wrote:It is the over-sharing. I don't need or want to hear about every problem you're having or ever had. Keep the drama to yourself.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't underestimate how destructive and toxic dysfunctional people can be. I had two close friends, one in middle and high school and one in my 20s-early 30s, who were truly terrible for me. Both children of alcoholics, they were addicted to drama, created scenes, and continually berated me for not being a good enough friend. I am a people pleaser by nature and I can see now how I enabled their behavior by validating them over and over. It makes me feel ill when I remember how I would try so hard to fill the voids in these women's lives and how I thought it was normal to be whipsawed between having so much fun and then having the rug pulled out from under me. I can see this so clearly now, but had no idea at the time that this kind of relationship wasn't normal in any way.

As a result, I am sympathetic to people's challenges but stay far away from engaging with damaged people. I also counsel my own kids to have healthy boundaries and to recognize that abusive behavior can exist in plenty of relationships, not just romantic ones. Would I ever say nasty things like "mentally ill people should be locked up"? Of course not. But I'm not here to help you work out your issues or let you bring all your negativity into my life. Save it for your therapist or your support group.

If you are a people pleaser, you also have dysfunctional and toxic traits. It is very likely that you have been drawn to people like this in the past specifically because of your dysfunction. It's not that your former friend were "bad" and you are "good" -- it's that you were like dysfunctional puzzle pieces that fit together perfectly in a toxic puzzle. You are damaged. You have challenges.

I am a former people pleaser who learned to be that way because my parents, and especially my dad, are narcissists. Dysfunction! And yes, that means that as an adult I have gravitated towards relationships with narcissists, and then I play out this same dynamic from my childhood and get frustrated when I get the same results. More dysfunction. It's true these people were dysfunctional and toxic, but SO WAS I. I wasn't setting boundaries and I was investing myself in these relationships, and performing codependence for people who seek it out, even though they weren't serving me.

The point is, it's not exclusively their fault. They are responsible for their behavior, but I am responsible for mine. I can see now that I played a role in these toxic relationships and likely encouraged some of their worst behavior by enabling it. It's not just about them.

Yeah, no. You are using the term "dysfunctional" to include everything.

My friend's "dysfunction" - abusive behavior
My "dysfunction" - not recognizing abusive behavior and trying to support abusive friend

When you dismiss these as being exactly the same - "no good or bad" - you only highlight why everyone around you wants no part of your hot mess.

I am not claiming to be some paragon of perfection, hardly. But this entire thread is about "why aren't people more understanding of my complicated issues?" with zero comprehension that your toxic issues can damage other people who are trying to give you the compassion and understanding you so desperately crave.

People pleasing is a toxic, dysfunctional behavior. People pleasers often ignore their own needs in service of others. They do this out of a fear or anxiety that they will not be liked, or that they will be abandoned, if they don’t cater to others needs. You might characterize it as “trying to support” your friend, but a people pleaser is not solely motivated by generosity. People pleasers do what they do out of fear. It is a common behavior to acquire after being neglected as a child, or if you had parents who took their negative emotions out on you. People pleasing is a MALADAPTIVE behavior developed to keep yourself safe.

But then you fall into this pattern and it can be hard to break as an adult. People pleasers often have poor boundaries but in a deceptive way— they will constantly offer their help and support and never ask for any in return, essentially providing themselves as people without boundaries to be used. This can be very appealing to narcissists or others who crave a lot of attention, validation, and emotional support.

In order to stop this dysfunctional behavior, you have to learn to identify it, recognize your role in the patterns, and make other choices. This is not an insult to you or evidence you are a bad person (I am a reformed people pleaser myself) it’s an acknowledgement that these sorts of dysfunctional relationships do not get forced on you out of nowhere. You have played a role. Understanding this is liberating because it enables you to stop.

Yikes. You've read one too many self-help books and now are projecting. People pleasing can simply be the easy way out from situations or people who are overly aggressive or assertive. It doesn't mean that the person is dysfunctional. It can mean that someone is trying to avoid conflict with an aggressor.

This is the standard definition and understanding of people pleasers, and it definitely applies if someone describes themself that way while also complaining about a toxic relationship where the other person took and took and never gave back. This is a classic people pleaser dynamic. One of the major I dictators that your people pleasing is a problem is if you find yourself resenting your relationships. It’s an indication that you are bad at setting boundaries and make yourself a doormat, then get mad when people walk all over you.

This stuff is readily available with a quick Google. There are few people who would use “people pleaser” as a compliment anymore.

And I think you're too quick to jump onto the label. There is a difference between people pleasing and people with big hearts or generous spirits. Just because someone values pleasing others doesn't mean that they are dysfunctional or unhealthy. The difference is that a people pleaser acts out of fear while a big heart person acts out of knowing what makes them happy and how they achieve gratification. So unless you know a lot more about this person whom you are pseudo-diagnosing, I would say that you're probably wrong because you're so quick to label that you're not looking at any other factors.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't underestimate how destructive and toxic dysfunctional people can be. I had two close friends, one in middle and high school and one in my 20s-early 30s, who were truly terrible for me. Both children of alcoholics, they were addicted to drama, created scenes, and continually berated me for not being a good enough friend. I am a people pleaser by nature and I can see now how I enabled their behavior by validating them over and over. It makes me feel ill when I remember how I would try so hard to fill the voids in these women's lives and how I thought it was normal to be whipsawed between having so much fun and then having the rug pulled out from under me. I can see this so clearly now, but had no idea at the time that this kind of relationship wasn't normal in any way.

As a result, I am sympathetic to people's challenges but stay far away from engaging with damaged people. I also counsel my own kids to have healthy boundaries and to recognize that abusive behavior can exist in plenty of relationships, not just romantic ones. Would I ever say nasty things like "mentally ill people should be locked up"? Of course not. But I'm not here to help you work out your issues or let you bring all your negativity into my life. Save it for your therapist or your support group.

If you are a people pleaser, you also have dysfunctional and toxic traits. It is very likely that you have been drawn to people like this in the past specifically because of your dysfunction. It's not that your former friend were "bad" and you are "good" -- it's that you were like dysfunctional puzzle pieces that fit together perfectly in a toxic puzzle. You are damaged. You have challenges.

I am a former people pleaser who learned to be that way because my parents, and especially my dad, are narcissists. Dysfunction! And yes, that means that as an adult I have gravitated towards relationships with narcissists, and then I play out this same dynamic from my childhood and get frustrated when I get the same results. More dysfunction. It's true these people were dysfunctional and toxic, but SO WAS I. I wasn't setting boundaries and I was investing myself in these relationships, and performing codependence for people who seek it out, even though they weren't serving me.

The point is, it's not exclusively their fault. They are responsible for their behavior, but I am responsible for mine. I can see now that I played a role in these toxic relationships and likely encouraged some of their worst behavior by enabling it. It's not just about them.

Yeah, no. You are using the term "dysfunctional" to include everything.

My friend's "dysfunction" - abusive behavior
My "dysfunction" - not recognizing abusive behavior and trying to support abusive friend

When you dismiss these as being exactly the same - "no good or bad" - you only highlight why everyone around you wants no part of your hot mess.

I am not claiming to be some paragon of perfection, hardly. But this entire thread is about "why aren't people more understanding of my complicated issues?" with zero comprehension that your toxic issues can damage other people who are trying to give you the compassion and understanding you so desperately crave.

People pleasing is a toxic, dysfunctional behavior. People pleasers often ignore their own needs in service of others. They do this out of a fear or anxiety that they will not be liked, or that they will be abandoned, if they don’t cater to others needs. You might characterize it as “trying to support” your friend, but a people pleaser is not solely motivated by generosity. People pleasers do what they do out of fear. It is a common behavior to acquire after being neglected as a child, or if you had parents who took their negative emotions out on you. People pleasing is a MALADAPTIVE behavior developed to keep yourself safe.

But then you fall into this pattern and it can be hard to break as an adult. People pleasers often have poor boundaries but in a deceptive way— they will constantly offer their help and support and never ask for any in return, essentially providing themselves as people without boundaries to be used. This can be very appealing to narcissists or others who crave a lot of attention, validation, and emotional support.

In order to stop this dysfunctional behavior, you have to learn to identify it, recognize your role in the patterns, and make other choices. This is not an insult to you or evidence you are a bad person (I am a reformed people pleaser myself) it’s an acknowledgement that these sorts of dysfunctional relationships do not get forced on you out of nowhere. You have played a role. Understanding this is liberating because it enables you to stop.

Yikes. You've read one too many self-help books and now are projecting. People pleasing can simply be the easy way out from situations or people who are overly aggressive or assertive. It doesn't mean that the person is dysfunctional. It can mean that someone is trying to avoid conflict with an aggressor.

This is the standard definition and understanding of people pleasers, and it definitely applies if someone describes themself that way while also complaining about a toxic relationship where the other person took and took and never gave back. This is a classic people pleaser dynamic. One of the major I dictators that your people pleasing is a problem is if you find yourself resenting your relationships. It’s an indication that you are bad at setting boundaries and make yourself a doormat, then get mad when people walk all over you.

This stuff is readily available with a quick Google. There are few people who would use “people pleaser” as a compliment anymore.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP here. This struck a nerve. I feel very judged by a former close friend for getting divorced. She hasn’t given details, but did admit to being uncomfortable with what l “chose to do” when l asked her what was going on with her decreased level of communication with me, and said she doesn’t have the bandwidth to think about why she’s uncomfortable.

Which tells me I’m not that important to her. She’s rather not think about it and avoid me. I find it very unkind, as we were very close, but now it’s made me not want to be friends with her either. Who needs friends like that?

I do have friends who’ve been very supportive and I consider myself pretty darn functional.

Not letting yourself think about hard things to support a friend - besides being unkind that also seems dysfunctional to me. Emotionally shut down.

I think she said what she said to avoid having a conversation with you if you're going to be confrontational. It sounds like she knows why she doesn't support your choice and she is preferring to avoid having to tell you why. So drop it. If that means you drop her as a friend, then so be it. I don't see her choice as dysfunctional, I see it as wanting to avoid having a confrontational conversation with you.

I did drop it and l wasn’t confrontational. I asked her once what was going on. Personally the friendship was worth it to me to try to find out what was going on and see if l could do anything to help it. So ya l still feel like she was unkind and didn’t care much about the friendship, and that hurt but I’ve moved on. The crap part now is l still see her at stuff with mutual friends.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't underestimate how destructive and toxic dysfunctional people can be. I had two close friends, one in middle and high school and one in my 20s-early 30s, who were truly terrible for me. Both children of alcoholics, they were addicted to drama, created scenes, and continually berated me for not being a good enough friend. I am a people pleaser by nature and I can see now how I enabled their behavior by validating them over and over. It makes me feel ill when I remember how I would try so hard to fill the voids in these women's lives and how I thought it was normal to be whipsawed between having so much fun and then having the rug pulled out from under me. I can see this so clearly now, but had no idea at the time that this kind of relationship wasn't normal in any way.

As a result, I am sympathetic to people's challenges but stay far away from engaging with damaged people. I also counsel my own kids to have healthy boundaries and to recognize that abusive behavior can exist in plenty of relationships, not just romantic ones. Would I ever say nasty things like "mentally ill people should be locked up"? Of course not. But I'm not here to help you work out your issues or let you bring all your negativity into my life. Save it for your therapist or your support group.

If you are a people pleaser, you also have dysfunctional and toxic traits. It is very likely that you have been drawn to people like this in the past specifically because of your dysfunction. It's not that your former friend were "bad" and you are "good" -- it's that you were like dysfunctional puzzle pieces that fit together perfectly in a toxic puzzle. You are damaged. You have challenges.

I am a former people pleaser who learned to be that way because my parents, and especially my dad, are narcissists. Dysfunction! And yes, that means that as an adult I have gravitated towards relationships with narcissists, and then I play out this same dynamic from my childhood and get frustrated when I get the same results. More dysfunction. It's true these people were dysfunctional and toxic, but SO WAS I. I wasn't setting boundaries and I was investing myself in these relationships, and performing codependence for people who seek it out, even though they weren't serving me.

The point is, it's not exclusively their fault. They are responsible for their behavior, but I am responsible for mine. I can see now that I played a role in these toxic relationships and likely encouraged some of their worst behavior by enabling it. It's not just about them.

Yeah, no. You are using the term "dysfunctional" to include everything.

My friend's "dysfunction" - abusive behavior
My "dysfunction" - not recognizing abusive behavior and trying to support abusive friend

When you dismiss these as being exactly the same - "no good or bad" - you only highlight why everyone around you wants no part of your hot mess.

I am not claiming to be some paragon of perfection, hardly. But this entire thread is about "why aren't people more understanding of my complicated issues?" with zero comprehension that your toxic issues can damage other people who are trying to give you the compassion and understanding you so desperately crave.

People pleasing is a toxic, dysfunctional behavior. People pleasers often ignore their own needs in service of others. They do this out of a fear or anxiety that they will not be liked, or that they will be abandoned, if they don’t cater to others needs. You might characterize it as “trying to support” your friend, but a people pleaser is not solely motivated by generosity. People pleasers do what they do out of fear. It is a common behavior to acquire after being neglected as a child, or if you had parents who took their negative emotions out on you. People pleasing is a MALADAPTIVE behavior developed to keep yourself safe.

But then you fall into this pattern and it can be hard to break as an adult. People pleasers often have poor boundaries but in a deceptive way— they will constantly offer their help and support and never ask for any in return, essentially providing themselves as people without boundaries to be used. This can be very appealing to narcissists or others who crave a lot of attention, validation, and emotional support.

In order to stop this dysfunctional behavior, you have to learn to identify it, recognize your role in the patterns, and make other choices. This is not an insult to you or evidence you are a bad person (I am a reformed people pleaser myself) it’s an acknowledgement that these sorts of dysfunctional relationships do not get forced on you out of nowhere. You have played a role. Understanding this is liberating because it enables you to stop.

Yikes. You've read one too many self-help books and now are projecting. People pleasing can simply be the easy way out from situations or people who are overly aggressive or assertive. It doesn't mean that the person is dysfunctional. It can mean that someone is trying to avoid conflict with an aggressor.

People pleasing is a form of manipulation. It’s not an healthy behavior for you or the person you’re “pleasing”.

Is “people pleasing” in the DSM? Your eagerness to pathologize everyone else’s behavior is telling. This is exactly why people are less than empathetic with those of you who insist on treating your friends and colleagues like your therapist.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't underestimate how destructive and toxic dysfunctional people can be. I had two close friends, one in middle and high school and one in my 20s-early 30s, who were truly terrible for me. Both children of alcoholics, they were addicted to drama, created scenes, and continually berated me for not being a good enough friend. I am a people pleaser by nature and I can see now how I enabled their behavior by validating them over and over. It makes me feel ill when I remember how I would try so hard to fill the voids in these women's lives and how I thought it was normal to be whipsawed between having so much fun and then having the rug pulled out from under me. I can see this so clearly now, but had no idea at the time that this kind of relationship wasn't normal in any way.

As a result, I am sympathetic to people's challenges but stay far away from engaging with damaged people. I also counsel my own kids to have healthy boundaries and to recognize that abusive behavior can exist in plenty of relationships, not just romantic ones. Would I ever say nasty things like "mentally ill people should be locked up"? Of course not. But I'm not here to help you work out your issues or let you bring all your negativity into my life. Save it for your therapist or your support group.

If you are a people pleaser, you also have dysfunctional and toxic traits. It is very likely that you have been drawn to people like this in the past specifically because of your dysfunction. It's not that your former friend were "bad" and you are "good" -- it's that you were like dysfunctional puzzle pieces that fit together perfectly in a toxic puzzle. You are damaged. You have challenges.

I am a former people pleaser who learned to be that way because my parents, and especially my dad, are narcissists. Dysfunction! And yes, that means that as an adult I have gravitated towards relationships with narcissists, and then I play out this same dynamic from my childhood and get frustrated when I get the same results. More dysfunction. It's true these people were dysfunctional and toxic, but SO WAS I. I wasn't setting boundaries and I was investing myself in these relationships, and performing codependence for people who seek it out, even though they weren't serving me.

The point is, it's not exclusively their fault. They are responsible for their behavior, but I am responsible for mine. I can see now that I played a role in these toxic relationships and likely encouraged some of their worst behavior by enabling it. It's not just about them.

Yeah, no. You are using the term "dysfunctional" to include everything.

My friend's "dysfunction" - abusive behavior
My "dysfunction" - not recognizing abusive behavior and trying to support abusive friend

When you dismiss these as being exactly the same - "no good or bad" - you only highlight why everyone around you wants no part of your hot mess.

I am not claiming to be some paragon of perfection, hardly. But this entire thread is about "why aren't people more understanding of my complicated issues?" with zero comprehension that your toxic issues can damage other people who are trying to give you the compassion and understanding you so desperately crave.

People pleasing is a toxic, dysfunctional behavior. People pleasers often ignore their own needs in service of others. They do this out of a fear or anxiety that they will not be liked, or that they will be abandoned, if they don’t cater to others needs. You might characterize it as “trying to support” your friend, but a people pleaser is not solely motivated by generosity. People pleasers do what they do out of fear. It is a common behavior to acquire after being neglected as a child, or if you had parents who took their negative emotions out on you. People pleasing is a MALADAPTIVE behavior developed to keep yourself safe.

But then you fall into this pattern and it can be hard to break as an adult. People pleasers often have poor boundaries but in a deceptive way— they will constantly offer their help and support and never ask for any in return, essentially providing themselves as people without boundaries to be used. This can be very appealing to narcissists or others who crave a lot of attention, validation, and emotional support.

In order to stop this dysfunctional behavior, you have to learn to identify it, recognize your role in the patterns, and make other choices. This is not an insult to you or evidence you are a bad person (I am a reformed people pleaser myself) it’s an acknowledgement that these sorts of dysfunctional relationships do not get forced on you out of nowhere. You have played a role. Understanding this is liberating because it enables you to stop.

Yikes. You've read one too many self-help books and now are projecting. People pleasing can simply be the easy way out from situations or people who are overly aggressive or assertive. It doesn't mean that the person is dysfunctional. It can mean that someone is trying to avoid conflict with an aggressor.

People pleasing is a form of manipulation. It’s not an healthy behavior for you or the person you’re “pleasing”.

Is “people pleasing” in the DSM? Your eagerness to pathologize everyone else’s behavior is telling. This is exactly why people are less than empathetic with those of you who insist on treating your friends and colleagues like your therapist.