Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are all human and flawed. I suspect the grass isn’t greener with the AP. How well do you really even know this person without seriously dating or living together?

Maybe you just wanted an escape? You’ll repeat your worst self eventually in this new relationship unless you do the hard work of figuring out why you even went there. People aren’t unicorn and rainbows.

+1

Also: The OP says the affair has been over (well, except...OP and the supposedly-ex AP keep in touch) for several years. Years. Yet OP believes in the AP's love. I suspect the AP is keeping OP on a string in case this other relationship, which the OP characterizes as "serious," does not pan out, or that relationship just gets stale and the AP then tugs on OP's string to restart the affair. OP will deny this forever, believing AP is in love with OP. But OP is so invested now in "the grass is greener" thinking that OP can't even entertain the idea that the idealized AP could remotely be keeping up contact in order to hang onto OP as a backup.

I know that sounds ugly, OP, if you're reading this. But you need some seriously realistic talk, not coddling. It sounds like your therapist is doing some coddling already. You need a new therapist who will be realistic with you.

Read up on narcissists. They always keep the ex on a string because it makes them feel in control.

Narcissists often have a habit of staying in contact with their exes in a way that is solely about their own needs. "The central motivator for narcissists is validation," A narcissist will continue to come back after “no contact” until their targets cut off all forms of narcissistic supply, leaving them no choice but to go find other prey upon which to feed.

As far as if you were actually to go no contact, OP: Most true narcissists don't need time to heal from a break up as their initial feelings about the relationship were likely insincere or absent.

OP, do you see this, above? It's intended for you. Learn about narcissists. Even if your AP isn't a full-blown diagnosable narcissist, the staying in touch with you is not the beautiful sign of love you think it is. If this person actually loved you enough to care about your well-being and your physical and emotional health, would he intentionally keep you off-kilter, always worked up, on pins and needles? That is exactly what your AP is doing by staying in touch. And you contribute to it whenever you stay in touch from your end. I think you will ignore the PP above, and this post, because your AP has said he still loves you and you have no objectivity to see past that. I hope I'm wrong about that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are all human and flawed. I suspect the grass isn’t greener with the AP. How well do you really even know this person without seriously dating or living together?

Maybe you just wanted an escape? You’ll repeat your worst self eventually in this new relationship unless you do the hard work of figuring out why you even went there. People aren’t unicorn and rainbows.

+1

Also: The OP says the affair has been over (well, except...OP and the supposedly-ex AP keep in touch) for several years. Years. Yet OP believes in the AP's love. I suspect the AP is keeping OP on a string in case this other relationship, which the OP characterizes as "serious," does not pan out, or that relationship just gets stale and the AP then tugs on OP's string to restart the affair. OP will deny this forever, believing AP is in love with OP. But OP is so invested now in "the grass is greener" thinking that OP can't even entertain the idea that the idealized AP could remotely be keeping up contact in order to hang onto OP as a backup.

I know that sounds ugly, OP, if you're reading this. But you need some seriously realistic talk, not coddling. It sounds like your therapist is doing some coddling already. You need a new therapist who will be realistic with you.

Read up on narcissists. They always keep the ex on a string because it makes them feel in control.

Narcissists often have a habit of staying in contact with their exes in a way that is solely about their own needs. "The central motivator for narcissists is validation," A narcissist will continue to come back after “no contact” until their targets cut off all forms of narcissistic supply, leaving them no choice but to go find other prey upon which to feed.

As far as if you were actually to go no contact, OP: Most true narcissists don't need time to heal from a break up as their initial feelings about the relationship were likely insincere or absent.

Anonymous wrote:We are all human and flawed. I suspect the grass isn’t greener with the AP. How well do you really even know this person without seriously dating or living together?

Maybe you just wanted an escape? You’ll repeat your worst self eventually in this new relationship unless you do the hard work of figuring out why you even went there. People aren’t unicorn and rainbows.

+1

Also: The OP says the affair has been over (well, except...OP and the supposedly-ex AP keep in touch) for several years. Years. Yet OP believes in the AP's love. I suspect the AP is keeping OP on a string in case this other relationship, which the OP characterizes as "serious," does not pan out, or that relationship just gets stale and the AP then tugs on OP's string to restart the affair. OP will deny this forever, believing AP is in love with OP. But OP is so invested now in "the grass is greener" thinking that OP can't even entertain the idea that the idealized AP could remotely be keeping up contact in order to hang onto OP as a backup.

I know that sounds ugly, OP, if you're reading this. But you need some seriously realistic talk, not coddling. It sounds like your therapist is doing some coddling already. You need a new therapist who will be realistic with you.

Your therapist agrees with you, according to you, that this is a great love. Dear God. You need a new therapist as of yesterday, IF your therapist is really feeding this thinking of yours. You got one who is just telling you what you want to hear.

Not all therapists are good. Let's just say that I know one very well who had at least two and perhaps more long term (10 years in one case, broke up the marriage in another) affairs with married men. This therapist's philosophy is basically 'your feelings (anger ,lust, jealousy, desire, whatever) are totally valid because they're your FEEEElINGS. If other people can't handle that, then that is their problem, no one should stand in the way of you and want you (and your infantile needs) want and demand). There is and never has been any self reflection, much less remorse shame or guilt. (and of course, many people are willing to shell out 150/hour to have someone tell them they are justified in their course of action because feelings).

Anonymous wrote:My AP asked me to end my marriage several times. His wife called me and suggested the same thing because she claims he loves me. It happens. I'm not sure why he told his wife about us. It was a dick move. He told her a few years after I broke it off.

My spouse’s AP told me she was always so jealous of me because he loved me.

My conclusion: cheaters are seriously messed up in the head. All of you.

Anonymous wrote:My AP asked me to end my marriage several times. His wife called me and suggested the same thing because she claims he loves me. It happens. I'm not sure why he told his wife about us. It was a dick move. He told her a few years after I broke it off.

Yeah. Ok

My AP asked me to end my marriage several times. His wife called me and suggested the same thing because she claims he loves me. It happens. I'm not sure why he told his wife about us. It was a dick move. He told her a few years after I broke it off.

We are all human and flawed. I suspect the grass isn’t greener with the AP. How well do you really even know this person without seriously dating or living together?

Maybe you just wanted an escape? You’ll repeat your worst self eventually in this new relationship unless you do the hard work of figuring out why you even went there. People aren’t unicorn and rainbows.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need to know if they're still in contact and whether she has good reason to think he still loves her or whether she's a nut.

But as someone who left my marriage to be with my AP after a 6-year affair, I will say it is possible to love a spouse but more as family rather than a lover. You can have a very good, calm, happy, but platonic relationship, which in a lot of ways can seem healthy and loving -- but you will always yearn for that romantic component. I think that's human nature. Those of you with husbands who actually desire you take that for granted while patting yourselves on the back for your high morals (and some of you probably deny your husbands the desire they'd like to feel). If OP and her AP are still in love, I think they should divorce and plan a life together.

Thanks for writing, I know they are because they told me several times recently. Even my therapist thinks it is a very special love, I swear!

Are you 12 years old? Is your therapist 12 years old? "I swear!" If you're not 12 physically then I'm guessing you're about 12 emotionally.

You should definitely pursue the AP at all costs. He will never ever cheat on you. He will be there for you until your dying breath, loyal and steadfast, in sickness and in health. Or maybe he won't be. But you should throw away your husband and mess up your kids to find out!

Op, affairs are messy and complicated. All the pp's who see it so simplistically definitely have no idea, or have been the victim of a cheating spouse. But how do you know if the love is "real" and going to defy the statistics? This is what gives me pause. It's a messy world and it's a messy relationship situation and unfortunately people will get hurt. I don't know what the best outcome is. I do know sometimes it's really hard to resist the pull and the vision of something better, especially when a marriage doesn't work. If yours does, that should count for something?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is a “bad therapy breakthrough”?

I thought my issues were related to other stuff and that I was totally over the AP. then something happened that made me wake up in a way, and realize that I had processed none of it and the pain of that heartbreak but years later is really messing with me. Like to the point of a permanent physical disability

Though stress can create physical issues, you keep bringing this aspect up repeatedly, as if you are trying to convince us (or maybe yourself, or even your AP) that if you were only with the AP -- who loves you, really loves you, and you keep saying you know that for sure -- then you'd be fine. That's how it comes across, OP, even if you don't see it yourself.

I am not doubting the stress has caused you mental and physical issues. But I am wondering if you are so glad to have connected those issue back to the affair, that you'll now say to yourself, spouse and the AP that you "need" the AP back for you to be healthy. Which is a horrible idea.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why does everyone think the OP is a female?

So, OP, come back and tell us: Man or woman?
Still in contact with the ex-AP?
What did improving your marriage look like--couples counseling etc. or just giving up AP? Asking seriously, OP, not with snark.

I haven’t read this whole thread yet but I’m grateful for everyone’s thoughts and feedback. Still in contact, AP is in a new serious relationship. AP’s new partner is fully aware we talk occasionally.

I’ve just discovered it came from an extreme desire to keep my family intact - like I went on a deluded mission to make my marriage better and that would be enough. I really desperately want it to be but I am having severe physical and mental health issues that are directly related to this breakup/what it requires to be functional in my marriage. I just figured this out in therapy. I thought I was handling it well but I was in a weird denial that therapy broke. I ended things. I am 100% sure they still love me.

OP, you have stayed in contact with your AP. Did you not know, did no one including your therapist, tell you that it is THE most basic "Breakup 101" to cease all, as in ALL, contact with an affair partner, forever?

The fact you remain in touch means you're still in affair fog. And it also means you never sincerely, at the deepest level, wanted to make your marriage work for the rest of your life.

Can you accept those facts? That you never, despite what you told yourself, ever wanted to end the affair for real? That you are wrong to have stayed in touch? You seem to indicate above that because "AP's new partner is fully aware we talk occasionally"....it's fine that you talk to AP. It's as if you added that detail so we'd know, hey, it's OK, the other person knows! Nothing bad going on if AP is open about talking to me, right?

But will your spouse also be just fine with it? Maybe your spouse does know you talk to this person, and is fine with it, because spouse thinks this is a friend and has zero idea about the affair. Do you think this is OK, OP? Honest? Decent?

You will never get past the affair as long as the AP is in your life in any way at all. You have sabotaged any hope of seeing your affair, yourself or your AP objectively. You are, in your head, still having this affair. But we can see you have on such rose-tinted glasses that you will never recognize how you deceived yourself that you wanted your marriage or how you have made things worse by being in contact with your AP.

Your therapist agrees with you, according to you, that this is a great love. Dear God. You need a new therapist as of yesterday, IF your therapist is really feeding this thinking of yours. You got one who is just telling you what you want to hear.

Please stop contact and get a new therapist who will, as one PP put it, cut through your BS. You are going to wreck a lot of lives with your romantic fantasizing and pining. And your AP is helping you wreck it all by staying in touch with you.

OP, you sound like way too much drama. Your “therapeutic breakthroughs” come across as you searching for something because you crave drama. Get a new therapist who calls you on your bs.

Anonymous wrote:What is a “bad therapy breakthrough”?

I thought my issues were related to other stuff and that I was totally over the AP. then something happened that made me wake up in a way, and realize that I had processed none of it and the pain of that heartbreak but years later is really messing with me. Like to the point of a permanent physical disability