Anonymous
Post 03/31/2022 20:35     Subject: CES letters?
Anonymous wrote:Has MCPS done away with the 3 tranches of schools for local norming - high, medium and low farms? I just find it hard to believe that if they had to average the top 15% of students across all high SES schools, that the result would be 98/99%. I would totally believe it for individual small schools like Carderock or Bannockburn.

One of the pp said the 96% kid in low farm school was selected, top 15% is not 98/99 for sure.
Anonymous
Post 03/31/2022 19:15     Subject: CES letters?
Anonymous wrote:Has MCPS done away with the 3 tranches of schools for local norming - high, medium and low farms? I just find it hard to believe that if they had to average the top 15% of students across all high SES schools, that the result would be 98/99%. I would totally believe it for individual small schools like Carderock or Bannockburn.


Very doubtful since there is a significant cohort, not too dissimilar, of highly able students in every middle school cluster. In fact, Pyle MS, which is in a high SES area and a W-feeder, has fewer highly able students than you'd expect because so many of their top students are enrolled in private school. This is according to a 2017-2018 survey by MCPS. It's a myth that high SES elementary schools, and W-feeders in general, have significantly more high MAP-scoring students than non-W-feeder elementary schools. And it's certainly a myth that most students in any particular elementary school score 98/99 percentile on MAP.
Anonymous
Post 03/31/2022 18:53     Subject: CES letters?
Anonymous wrote:Has MCPS done away with the 3 tranches of schools for local norming - high, medium and low farms? I just find it hard to believe that if they had to average the top 15% of students across all high SES schools, that the result would be 98/99%. I would totally believe it for individual small schools like Carderock or Bannockburn.


Doubtful since the MCPS map stats were within a percentile or two of the national ones.
Anonymous
Post 03/31/2022 18:48     Subject: CES letters?
Has MCPS done away with the 3 tranches of schools for local norming - high, medium and low farms? I just find it hard to believe that if they had to average the top 15% of students across all high SES schools, that the result would be 98/99%. I would totally believe it for individual small schools like Carderock or Bannockburn.
Anonymous
Post 03/31/2022 17:53     Subject: CES letters?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Got our results. Selected for Cold Spring. 96 percentile. This whole process is crazy.

Do you have more detail? Local Norm 96% will in the pool?


Not the PP but there's no additional detail in the letters, unlike previous years. My child was put in the pool but not selected and there's no information about why he was in-pool, except what is publicly available. So, folks talking about percentiles are likely talking about fall MAP-R
Anonymous
Post 03/31/2022 17:50     Subject: CES letters?
Race is NOT a factor y'all.

If you want to feed your grievances, ask folks to disclose the FARMS rate at their home school but knowing race isn't going to tell you anything useful because it is not one of the factors.
Anonymous
Post 03/31/2022 17:48     Subject: CES letters?
Anonymous wrote:Got our results. Selected for Cold Spring. 96 percentile. This whole process is crazy.

Do you have more detail? Local Norm 96% will in the pool?
Anonymous
Post 03/31/2022 17:42     Subject: CES letters?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Can anyone point me to the actual measures being used? I have a friend who got their letter that their kid didn't even make the lottery, but based on reading level, grades and MAP definitely should have. We keep talking about 75th %ile but now I cant find where that is.

I know what the general measures are because I got our letter, but I'm trying to find specifics. This process is SO opaque.


I hear you. Our daughter was in the 95th MAP-R percentile, straight A's, always multiple grade levels above in reading/lexile level and wasn't even chosen for the pool either, which seems to cut against this FAQ that was added on 3/29 to the FAQs on MCPS's CES website:

"What data was used to review Grade 3 students for needing enriched services in Grade 4?

Multiple measures including Grade 3 marking period 2 report cards, locally-normed percentile ranks for the winter 2022 Measures of Adequate Progress in Reading (MAP-R), instructional reading level and student services including: special education services, ESOL- English for Speakers of Other Languages, Section 504 accommodations plan and Free and Reduced-priced Meals. Students who meet the following academic criteria will receive enriched literacy services in Grade 4:

-Grade 3 Marking Period 2 Reading ‘A’ and
-Grade 3 Marking Period 2 Writing or Social Studies ‘A’
-Reading level ‘On’ or ‘Above’
-85th Percentile Local Norm on MAP- R

The enriched literacy services may be delivered at your student’s current school or in a regional CES program. Students who meet the academic criteria will be placed into a lottery pool for potential placement in a CES program. Placement in the regional CES program is by lottery only."

The only thing we can think of is that our "locally normed" MAP-R might be astronomically high.


I would call AEI on that one - 95% is very high not to make pool.


Yeah, we're in the same boat. 97% Fall and 95% Winter MAP-R, straight As, etc, but at a very high SES school, so maybe it's the "locally normed" factor. We weren't planning on sending our kid to CES anyway but I would have expected her to at least make the pool??


Look even a high SES school isn't going to be too far off national norms. The pool was like the 75%. I imagine it's possible to miss that maybe at 85% national but at 95% I would have to say highly unlikely.


They updated the FAQ to say the pool starts at 85 percentile normed as the threshold, not 75.
Anonymous
Post 03/31/2022 17:41     Subject: CES letters?
Anonymous wrote:242 MAP-R 247 MAP-M young 3rd grader still 8 no 504 high-FARMS school NOT selected

Can you disclose your kid’s race?
Anonymous
Post 03/31/2022 17:33     Subject: CES letters?
242 MAP-R 247 MAP-M young 3rd grader still 8 no 504 high-FARMS school NOT selected
Anonymous
Post 03/31/2022 17:31     Subject: CES letters?
Anonymous wrote:We got waitlisted. 227 also. white girl, 504, medium farms rate. I wonder how many families turn down the spots…


Our ES has ELC (and compacted math, but as others have discussed those things are technically independent of one another). CES spots tend to get passed around here, with multiple turndowns. Most families (and kids) don't want to leave - even though we're not in W country.
Anonymous
Post 03/31/2022 17:16     Subject: Re:CES letters?
Check out this nugget from the new FAQs:

My student has an IEP or ESOL Plan or Best Interest Meeting and was invited to the CES but recommended for a different placement by the team. What is the next step?
The Educational Management Team including school staff, special education staff, and the family should work together to determine the best placement to meet the academic, instructional, and social emotional needs of the student. Placement decisions made through the Individualized Education Process, English for Speakers of Other Languages, Best Interest Meeting or other instructional processes may supersede a CES placement.
(added 3/29/22)

So a kid meets all criteria for placement in spite of learning differences, wins the CES lottery, and then school staff can decide to supersede a CES placement? How can this possibly be legal?
Anonymous
Post 03/31/2022 17:13     Subject: CES letters?
We got waitlisted. 227 also. white girl, 504, medium farms rate. I wonder how many families turn down the spots…
Anonymous
Post 03/31/2022 17:09     Subject: Re:CES letters?
Anonymous wrote:For these win the lottery, can you share your race and FARM rate?


My daughter got in. She had 227 MAP, is white and we have a 31% FARMS rate. I thought she was pretty smart, so I'm blown away at these 230 and 240 scores. Wow.

To answer PP, she can read basically anything that is meant for elementary or middle schoolers, but mostly chooses multiple hundred page chapter books that are meant for maybe 9-12 year olds. Anything older than that she wouldn't enjoy the content probably. She's a third grader and loves funny silly books regardless of what her level actual is. She is currently reading the Heroes of Olympus book series by Rick Riordan.
Anonymous
Post 03/31/2022 16:58     Subject: CES letters?
Anonymous wrote:For kids that are in the pool for consideration, what books can your child read?


My kid is in 4th grade CES and he joined in September having read a very wide range of books. Anything from Rick Riordan to George Orwell to Suzanne Collins, Roald Dahl, Jason Reynolds. But several of his friends in this years class had NEVER read a chapter book when they got selected. The work he’s done this year is typically 6th-8th grade level with texts in that range and above. TBH, I question how age appropriate much of it is.