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Anonymous wrote:Why are they doing this? The vax mandate was great

It destroys small businesses, especially restaurants.

Why, though? Most of DC is vaccinated, and this should encourage those who aren't to get vaccinated.

No. It encourages people (including those who are vaccinated) to not patronize businesses.

I'm vaccinated, and very much against mandates. I won't eat in a restaurant that requires a vaccine. That's absurd--three years ago no restaurant was asking to see proof of a measles shot before they'd let me eat.

So then you're the reason that small businesses suffer - you wouldn't eat in a restaurant when there was a vaccine mandate that they were legally required to adhere to? This wasn't a choice made by individual restaurants - though now it will be - it was a decision made by the city.

DP. I feel bad for the restaurants, sure. But, I'm not going to patronize them if I find the jurisdiction's laws offensive.

Would you go to a restaurant in a city where the laws required a certain ethnic or racial group to sit only in the basement room and use separate restrooms?

Oh come on. Race and ethnicity are not a choice. Choosing not to get a vaccine IS a choice.

We all draw our lines at different places.

Okay, then. Religion is a choice. Based on your post, I assume you'd be okay with a city ordinance that required a specific religious group to eat outside and only use a port-o-potty at restaurants?

Nope. Most people are born into a religion. Those who discriminate against them don’t care if they choose to be religious or not. You’re really comparing getting a vaccine to a religion? Choosing not to get a vaccine outs everyone around you at risk and is selfish. Being a member of a religion should only effects you.

Try to keep up with the science. The vaccines don't really seem to prevent infection, they just protect you from significantly bad outcomes. An unvaccinated person doesn't pose a risk to the vaccinated. If anything, it's the other way around.

This is just about moral shaming, nothing else,

Tell that to family of the 90 year old who was fully vaccinated but caught COVID from someone who wasn’t. Do you understand viral load and viral shedding at all? Do you understand viruses need hosts in order to mutate? I’m not interested in giving you a science lesson since you Seem to think science is a belief and not fact.

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Anonymous wrote:Why are they doing this? The vax mandate was great

It destroys small businesses, especially restaurants.

Why, though? Most of DC is vaccinated, and this should encourage those who aren't to get vaccinated.

No. It encourages people (including those who are vaccinated) to not patronize businesses.

I'm vaccinated, and very much against mandates. I won't eat in a restaurant that requires a vaccine. That's absurd--three years ago no restaurant was asking to see proof of a measles shot before they'd let me eat.

So then you're the reason that small businesses suffer - you wouldn't eat in a restaurant when there was a vaccine mandate that they were legally required to adhere to? This wasn't a choice made by individual restaurants - though now it will be - it was a decision made by the city.

DP. I feel bad for the restaurants, sure. But, I'm not going to patronize them if I find the jurisdiction's laws offensive.

Would you go to a restaurant in a city where the laws required a certain ethnic or racial group to sit only in the basement room and use separate restrooms?

Oh come on. Race and ethnicity are not a choice. Choosing not to get a vaccine IS a choice.

We all draw our lines at different places.

Okay, then. Religion is a choice. Based on your post, I assume you'd be okay with a city ordinance that required a specific religious group to eat outside and only use a port-o-potty at restaurants?

Nope. Most people are born into a religion. Those who discriminate against them don’t care if they choose to be religious or not. You’re really comparing getting a vaccine to a religion? Choosing not to get a vaccine outs everyone around you at risk and is selfish. Being a member of a religion should only effects you.

Try to keep up with the science. The vaccines don't really seem to prevent infection, they just protect you from significantly bad outcomes. An unvaccinated person doesn't pose a risk to the vaccinated. If anything, it's the other way around.

This is just about moral shaming, nothing else,

Tell that to family of the 90 year old who was fully vaccinated but caught COVID from someone who wasn’t. Do you understand viral load and viral shedding at all? Do you understand viruses need hosts in order to mutate? I’m not interested in giving you a science lesson since you Seem to think science is a belief and not fact.

The unvaccinated don't pose a significant risk to the vaccinated because even if an unvaccinated person were to infect a vaccinated person, the vaccinated person would be at a very low risk of a serious illness. On the other hand, an unvaccinated person who gets infected is more at risk of severe illness.

The idea that the vaccine mandate somehow protects the vaccinated is asinine. The unvaccinated don't pose any meaningful risk to the vaccinated.

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Anonymous wrote:Why are they doing this? The vax mandate was great

It destroys small businesses, especially restaurants.

Why, though? Most of DC is vaccinated, and this should encourage those who aren't to get vaccinated.

Yeah, I don't get the complaint about it hurting restaurants. I know plenty of people who are MORE willing to dine indoors when there's a vax mandate, and it's not like checking the card is all that onerous. No vax mandate for restaurants means we'll probably stop eating indoors again, at least until we see how things shake out with the masking/vax mandates going away.

I love statements like this:

"Checking a card is not all that onerous." It's right up there with "masks are no big deal; no one minds wearing them."

PP, may I politely ask who the hell are you to make general assumptions like this, on behalf of other people, when you have no idea what you're talking about?

So explain how it's so hard. We went out to eat Saturday. The host looked at the photo of the card on our phone, and then led us to our table. It took less than a minute. How is that possibly hard?

And you actually believe that was effective? That really made you "feel" better, PP, that you were in a room of "safe" people, because a 23 year old host glanced at your phone before he seated you? So there is no room for fraud in this process, where an hourly employee who is looking to seat tables can make a "mistake?" It's fair to put all the liability and responsibility for this on the small business restaurant?

Anonymous wrote:I think one reason the vaccine mandate was dropped is that from a constitutional perspective, it is unlikely to withstand a legal challenge. This is especially true if case rates have dropped. This isn't a right/left thing or even a "follow the science" thing. It is just very hard to mandate a medical intervention on adults without compelling public health justification. During the height of the omicron surge you MAYBE would have had this (but opposition would have pointed to low death rates and the fact that vaccinate people were also catching and spreading the virus, though not as readily as the unvaccinated), but by March of 2022, it would be virtually impossible to defend a vaccine mandate against a legal challenge.

I was explaining this to my DH and his first response was "but we mandate vaccines in schools" and I know some of you will say the same. This is different because children have more limited rights in schools than adults do. Schools can do a lot of things that would normally violate fundamental rights to things like free speech, against unlawful search and seizure, or freedom of movement. The case law on constitutional rights is very different for kids and particularly different in public schools.

I could see Bowser looking a the cases plummeting, the low rates of covid+ people in hospitals, and the very low death rate related to covid, and being told by legal advisors that there is no longer a strong case for the vaccine. It feels premature, but when I look at this as it would be presented in court case, it's actually somewhat remarkable they ever tried it. And it gets less viable every day.

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Anonymous wrote:I'm fine with dropping the mask mandate but the vaccine mandate was good, common-sense public health policy.

No. It’s a highly unpopular policy that’s toxic to the Democratic Party. Also nit grounded in science, sorry.

It is grounded in science. The vaccinated are less likely to spread/catch covid.

And when the vaccinated do catch breakthrough Covid, the vaccinated are still FAR less likely to end up with severe illness requiring hospitalization. Far less likely to die. The vaccinated can still get sick, but are many times less likely than the unvaccinated to take up hospital beds, resources, the time of doctors and nurses. Far less likely to incur huge medical costs for their families, less likely to die and leave families missing income and, oh yeah, missing a loved one who just couldn't bear to get a few shots in the arm.

It's worse than ignorant to go around saying vaccines for Covid are "not grounded in science." Saying that is spreading misinformation that is dangerous to public health, eats limited medical resources, and damages families who lose loved ones who could have had mild cases instead of severe cases.

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Anonymous wrote:I'm fine with dropping the mask mandate but the vaccine mandate was good, common-sense public health policy.

No. It’s a highly unpopular policy that’s toxic to the Democratic Party. Also nit grounded in science, sorry.

It is grounded in science. The vaccinated are less likely to spread/catch covid.

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Anonymous wrote:Wait does my DCPS kid still have to mask outside at recess?

LOL yes because we are asinine.

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Anonymous wrote:Why are they doing this? The vax mandate was great

It destroys small businesses, especially restaurants.

Why, though? Most of DC is vaccinated, and this should encourage those who aren't to get vaccinated.

No. It encourages people (including those who are vaccinated) to not patronize businesses.

I'm vaccinated, and very much against mandates. I won't eat in a restaurant that requires a vaccine. That's absurd--three years ago no restaurant was asking to see proof of a measles shot before they'd let me eat.

So then you're the reason that small businesses suffer - you wouldn't eat in a restaurant when there was a vaccine mandate that they were legally required to adhere to? This wasn't a choice made by individual restaurants - though now it will be - it was a decision made by the city.

DP. I feel bad for the restaurants, sure. But, I'm not going to patronize them if I find the jurisdiction's laws offensive.

Would you go to a restaurant in a city where the laws required a certain ethnic or racial group to sit only in the basement room and use separate restrooms?

Oh come on. Race and ethnicity are not a choice. Choosing not to get a vaccine IS a choice.

We all draw our lines at different places.

Okay, then. Religion is a choice. Based on your post, I assume you'd be okay with a city ordinance that required a specific religious group to eat outside and only use a port-o-potty at restaurants?

Nope. Most people are born into a religion. Those who discriminate against them don’t care if they choose to be religious or not. You’re really comparing getting a vaccine to a religion? Choosing not to get a vaccine outs everyone around you at risk and is selfish. Being a member of a religion should only effects you.

Try to keep up with the science. The vaccines don't really seem to prevent infection, they just protect you from significantly bad outcomes. An unvaccinated person doesn't pose a risk to the vaccinated. If anything, it's the other way around.

This is just about moral shaming, nothing else,

Tell that to family of the 90 year old who was fully vaccinated but caught COVID from someone who wasn’t. Do you understand viral load and viral shedding at all? Do you understand viruses need hosts in order to mutate? I’m not interested in giving you a science lesson since you Seem to think science is a belief and not fact.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are they doing this? The vax mandate was great

It destroys small businesses, especially restaurants.

Why, though? Most of DC is vaccinated, and this should encourage those who aren't to get vaccinated.

No. It encourages people (including those who are vaccinated) to not patronize businesses.

I'm vaccinated, and very much against mandates. I won't eat in a restaurant that requires a vaccine. That's absurd--three years ago no restaurant was asking to see proof of a measles shot before they'd let me eat.

So then you're the reason that small businesses suffer - you wouldn't eat in a restaurant when there was a vaccine mandate that they were legally required to adhere to? This wasn't a choice made by individual restaurants - though now it will be - it was a decision made by the city.

DP. I feel bad for the restaurants, sure. But, I'm not going to patronize them if I find the jurisdiction's laws offensive.

Would you go to a restaurant in a city where the laws required a certain ethnic or racial group to sit only in the basement room and use separate restrooms?

Oh come on. Race and ethnicity are not a choice. Choosing not to get a vaccine IS a choice.

We all draw our lines at different places.

Okay, then. Religion is a choice. Based on your post, I assume you'd be okay with a city ordinance that required a specific religious group to eat outside and only use a port-o-potty at restaurants?

Nope. Most people are born into a religion. Those who discriminate against them don’t care if they choose to be religious or not. You’re really comparing getting a vaccine to a religion? Choosing not to get a vaccine outs everyone around you at risk and is selfish. Being a member of a religion should only effects you.

Try to keep up with the science. The vaccines don't really seem to prevent infection, they just protect you from significantly bad outcomes. An unvaccinated person doesn't pose a risk to the vaccinated. If anything, it's the other way around.

This is just about moral shaming, nothing else,

Anonymous wrote:So is there anyone who thinks that it is a good idea that the vaccine and mask mandates are being dropped but the mask mandate is still being kept in schools?

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Anonymous wrote:Why are they doing this? The vax mandate was great

It destroys small businesses, especially restaurants.

Why, though? Most of DC is vaccinated, and this should encourage those who aren't to get vaccinated.

No. It encourages people (including those who are vaccinated) to not patronize businesses.

I'm vaccinated, and very much against mandates. I won't eat in a restaurant that requires a vaccine. That's absurd--three years ago no restaurant was asking to see proof of a measles shot before they'd let me eat.

So then you're the reason that small businesses suffer - you wouldn't eat in a restaurant when there was a vaccine mandate that they were legally required to adhere to? This wasn't a choice made by individual restaurants - though now it will be - it was a decision made by the city.

DP. I feel bad for the restaurants, sure. But, I'm not going to patronize them if I find the jurisdiction's laws offensive.

Would you go to a restaurant in a city where the laws required a certain ethnic or racial group to sit only in the basement room and use separate restrooms?

Oh come on. Race and ethnicity are not a choice. Choosing not to get a vaccine IS a choice.

We all draw our lines at different places.

Okay, then. Religion is a choice. Based on your post, I assume you'd be okay with a city ordinance that required a specific religious group to eat outside and only use a port-o-potty at restaurants?

Nope. Most people are born into a religion. Those who discriminate against them don’t care if they choose to be religious or not. You’re really comparing getting a vaccine to a religion? Choosing not to get a vaccine outs everyone around you at risk and is selfish. Being a member of a religion should only effects you.

Try to keep up with the science. The vaccines don't really seem to prevent infection, they just protect you from significantly bad outcomes. An unvaccinated person doesn't pose a risk to the vaccinated. If anything, it's the other way around.

This is just about moral shaming, nothing else,

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are they doing this? The vax mandate was great

It destroys small businesses, especially restaurants.

Why, though? Most of DC is vaccinated, and this should encourage those who aren't to get vaccinated.

No. It encourages people (including those who are vaccinated) to not patronize businesses.

I'm vaccinated, and very much against mandates. I won't eat in a restaurant that requires a vaccine. That's absurd--three years ago no restaurant was asking to see proof of a measles shot before they'd let me eat.

So then you're the reason that small businesses suffer - you wouldn't eat in a restaurant when there was a vaccine mandate that they were legally required to adhere to? This wasn't a choice made by individual restaurants - though now it will be - it was a decision made by the city.

DP. I feel bad for the restaurants, sure. But, I'm not going to patronize them if I find the jurisdiction's laws offensive.

Would you go to a restaurant in a city where the laws required a certain ethnic or racial group to sit only in the basement room and use separate restrooms?

Oh come on. Race and ethnicity are not a choice. Choosing not to get a vaccine IS a choice.

We all draw our lines at different places.

Okay, then. Religion is a choice. Based on your post, I assume you'd be okay with a city ordinance that required a specific religious group to eat outside and only use a port-o-potty at restaurants?

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Anonymous wrote:I think some people are so blinded by polarizing gang warfare of team blue and team red, that they don't want to admit a lot of the lockdowns and requirements of the past two years were ineffectual. Biden was not able to end COVID, and that was a fantastical goal that didn't align with science. They can't bring themselves to realize that a lot of what Republicans pushed months ago is what democratic governors and politicians finally realized too : we can't let this virus define our lives forever. People have to make personal choices about their own risk tolerances and for vaccinated people the risks are comparable to the flu.

There have been almost no actual lockdowns here, if we're going to get technical about terms -- the stay home orders always had a ton of exceptions, and at any rate, all that has been lifted for a very long time anyway. "You have to wear a mask in public" is not the same as "you can't leave your house."

I can’t believe there are still people yelling “real lockdowns haven’t been tried.” What is your end goal here? Zero Covid isn’t a thing.

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Anonymous wrote:Why are they doing this? The vax mandate was great

It destroys small businesses, especially restaurants.

Why, though? Most of DC is vaccinated, and this should encourage those who aren't to get vaccinated.

No. It encourages people (including those who are vaccinated) to not patronize businesses.

I'm vaccinated, and very much against mandates. I won't eat in a restaurant that requires a vaccine. That's absurd--three years ago no restaurant was asking to see proof of a measles shot before they'd let me eat.

So then you're the reason that small businesses suffer - you wouldn't eat in a restaurant when there was a vaccine mandate that they were legally required to adhere to? This wasn't a choice made by individual restaurants - though now it will be - it was a decision made by the city.

DP. I feel bad for the restaurants, sure. But, I'm not going to patronize them if I find the jurisdiction's laws offensive.

Would you go to a restaurant in a city where the laws required a certain ethnic or racial group to sit only in the basement room and use separate restrooms?

Oh come on. Race and ethnicity are not a choice. Choosing not to get a vaccine IS a choice.

We all draw our lines at different places.

Okay, then. Religion is a choice. Based on your post, I assume you'd be okay with a city ordinance that required a specific religious group to eat outside and only use a port-o-potty at restaurants?

Nope. Most people are born into a religion. Those who discriminate against them don’t care if they choose to be religious or not. You’re really comparing getting a vaccine to a religion? Choosing not to get a vaccine outs everyone around you at risk and is selfish. Being a member of a religion should only effects you.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think some people are so blinded by polarizing gang warfare of team blue and team red, that they don't want to admit a lot of the lockdowns and requirements of the past two years were ineffectual. Biden was not able to end COVID, and that was a fantastical goal that didn't align with science. They can't bring themselves to realize that a lot of what Republicans pushed months ago is what democratic governors and politicians finally realized too : we can't let this virus define our lives forever. People have to make personal choices about their own risk tolerances and for vaccinated people the risks are comparable to the flu.

There have been almost no actual lockdowns here, if we're going to get technical about terms -- the stay home orders always had a ton of exceptions, and at any rate, all that has been lifted for a very long time anyway. "You have to wear a mask in public" is not the same as "you can't leave your house."

I know. It's been so disappointing that the government couldn't lock people in their homes.