Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. It is not ethical to rent a woman’s womb. Women are not chattel.

Since when does chattel get paid?

The essence of slavery is the lack of choice and fair compensation. Neither of those apply here, so gtfo with your (ahem) histrionics. OP isn’t talking about hiring a poor woman from a developing nation and your constant effort to argue that it’s the same thing just shows how much you infantalize women, and how incapable you think they are of making their own choices.

Since when DO chattel get paid, not does. The word is always plural.

Anyway, why on earth do you think it's one person arguing this argument? Face it, many people feel this way and many different people have posted on this thread. Oh, and this pesky lil thing called the European Court of Human Rights.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you don’t have any medical reason to do so. I just don’t want to be pregnant again, gain weight and have to try to lose it again. have my body change permanently, give birth etc.

And I can easily afford a surrogate.

Would you do it in my situation?

Is it ethical to buy sperm and eggs? I feel like buying the use of a uterus is more ethical than buying someone's genetic material. The surrogate has no genetic connection to the baby, but an egg or sperm donor DOES.

The only reason I wouldn't hire a surrogate is that you can't really control what she does while pregnant. I was a super vigilant while pregnant. There is no way you can control what a surrogate does, who they sleep with, what they ingest, or expose themselves to.

So what stops you is that you can't control your employee close enough. But yeah tell me again this is not ethically questionable and about power and money imbalances.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. It is not ethical to rent a woman’s womb. Women are not chattel.

Since when does chattel get paid?

The essence of slavery is the lack of choice and fair compensation. Neither of those apply here, so gtfo with your (ahem) histrionics. OP isn’t talking about hiring a poor woman from a developing nation and your constant effort to argue that it’s the same thing just shows how much you infantalize women, and how incapable you think they are of making their own choices.

Anonymous wrote:No. It is not ethical to rent a woman’s womb. Women are not chattel.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. It is not ethical to rent a woman’s womb. Women are not chattel.

Translation: don’t give women autonomy over their bodies because we wouldn’t want them to degrade themselves with personal choices

Anonymous wrote:No. It is not ethical to rent a woman’s womb. Women are not chattel.

Anonymous wrote:If you don’t have any medical reason to do so. I just don’t want to be pregnant again, gain weight and have to try to lose it again. have my body change permanently, give birth etc.

And I can easily afford a surrogate.

Would you do it in my situation?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Veterinarian lady you are crazy misogynist. There was no need to bring up the value of the animal going through treatment other than to imply that women who undergo fertility treatment are inferior.

I can’t believe you’re saying with a straight face that daily sex work has no harm quotient. I think sex work should be legal but there is a lot of data that sex work is not good for women. And while pregnancy can be dangerous (I almost died twice and that was after puking my guts up for 9 months and crippling SPD pain), the idea that you could say with a straight face that pregnancy is objectively more harmful than a life of sex work is patently ludicrous.

I am also very confused by why you keep bringing up India. Op did not say she was going to hire someone from India and underpay them (this would actually be very unwise when factoring in some tricky US immigration issues) and abuse them. You have inserted “surrogates are abused in India” as some random straw man that is entirely different from the conversation we’re having. No one is saying surrogates can’t be abused in countries where there are not rules and regulations to protect them.

Someone upthread said as long as it's legal then people can't be exploited. That's why I brought up India b.c it's patently not true there.

I said if it is legal then it is possible to build legal safeguards to protect people and that is preferable to it being illegal and fully in the black market. I did not say that it was not possible for there to be a country where it is legal and where women are abused. Of course that is possible.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Veterinarian lady you are crazy misogynist. There was no need to bring up the value of the animal going through treatment other than to imply that women who undergo fertility treatment are inferior.

I can’t believe you’re saying with a straight face that daily sex work has no harm quotient. I think sex work should be legal but there is a lot of data that sex work is not good for women. And while pregnancy can be dangerous (I almost died twice and that was after puking my guts up for 9 months and crippling SPD pain), the idea that you could say with a straight face that pregnancy is objectively more harmful than a life of sex work is patently ludicrous.

I am also very confused by why you keep bringing up India. Op did not say she was going to hire someone from India and underpay them (this would actually be very unwise when factoring in some tricky US immigration issues) and abuse them. You have inserted “surrogates are abused in India” as some random straw man that is entirely different from the conversation we’re having. No one is saying surrogates can’t be abused in countries where there are not rules and regulations to protect them.

Someone upthread said as long as it's legal then people can't be exploited. That's why I brought up India b.c it's patently not true there.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you don’t have any medical reason to do so. I just don’t want to be pregnant again, gain weight and have to try to lose it again. have my body change permanently, give birth etc.

And I can easily afford a surrogate.

Would you do it in my situation?

Is it ethical to buy sperm and eggs? I feel like buying the use of a uterus is more ethical than buying someone's genetic material. The surrogate has no genetic connection to the baby, but an egg or sperm donor DOES.

The only reason I wouldn't hire a surrogate is that you can't really control what she does while pregnant. I was a super vigilant while pregnant. There is no way you can control what a surrogate does, who they sleep with, what they ingest, or expose themselves to.

So what stops you is that you can't control your employee close enough. But yeah tell me again this is not ethically questionable and about power and money imbalances.

Ok, circle back. I’m happy to talk “business”.
Buying someone’s genetic material vs. renting out a uterus. Power? Money? Not the issue here. You are altering the very direction of the human species when eggs and sperm are commodities.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Babies start to bond with their mothers in the womb. So no.

You don’t support adoption?

Anonymous wrote:Veterinarian lady you are crazy misogynist. There was no need to bring up the value of the animal going through treatment other than to imply that women who undergo fertility treatment are inferior.

I can’t believe you’re saying with a straight face that daily sex work has no harm quotient. I think sex work should be legal but there is a lot of data that sex work is not good for women. And while pregnancy can be dangerous (I almost died twice and that was after puking my guts up for 9 months and crippling SPD pain), the idea that you could say with a straight face that pregnancy is objectively more harmful than a life of sex work is patently ludicrous.

I am also very confused by why you keep bringing up India. Op did not say she was going to hire someone from India and underpay them (this would actually be very unwise when factoring in some tricky US immigration issues) and abuse them. You have inserted “surrogates are abused in India” as some random straw man that is entirely different from the conversation we’re having. No one is saying surrogates can’t be abused in countries where there are not rules and regulations to protect them.