Anonymous wrote:The poster who keeps making these threads is obsessed and ridden with guilt. Look, just take care of your own kid, lady. All of your lobbying and spamming various message boards about how horrible day care workers are for wearing masks with your kids is just getting really sad.

Basically you're all up in arms and telling a bunch of minimum wage workers they have no right to protect themselves but they must enrich your child's life because you're too busy to do it yourself.

That's not their problem, lady. Teach your own kids to talk.

OP here. Dial it back, PP. This is only the second thread I’ve ever created on this forum. I have absolutely zero guilt over sending my kids to daycare. I am so grateful to my daycare because they were very early to open back up. I paid for two months of daycare when they were closed because I was worried for the teachers. I wrote my councilmember when daycare workers were in line behind teachers for vaccines. So back off on the baseless accusations.

I have not weighed in on masking vaccinated workers, though I have a point of view. Part of that is informed by the fact that my daycare operator wondered when they might be able to take them off.

I created this thread to see what other experiences were and whether anyone had a strategy other than for me to quit my job. If anyone else has anything productive to say, I’m all ears.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here’s what the AAP says about masks and speech: https://www.healthychildren.org/English/health-issues/conditions/COVID-19/Pages/Do-face-masks-interfere-with-language-development.aspx

Our toddler and preschooler have both learned two languages over the past two years, and because we are at high risk, we live like we’re in a monastery except for preschool, which is fully masked.

One of the challenges of this kind of discussion is that it’s really, really hard to control for confounding variables in human subject research and we tend to see our own experiences (and ignore anything that doesn’t conform to it). You have to be exceptionally well trained to avoid these obstacles when evaluating the effects of various policies and interventions.

If masks are contributing to speech delays, good evidence to that effect is not yet available. OTOH, we have very clear evidence that Covid can be quite dangerous. And masks and distancing are among our limited tools for dealing with it. Sometimes you have to make the best of a bad situation.

It's a little disturbing that the AAP cites visually impaired children as proof that masks can't possibly impact development, when large percentages of blind children have developmental disabilities. They are making claims they can't possibly have the information to make.

+1. And you can’t make the comparison between a child who sees nothing and I child you sometimes sees words mouthed and other times not. Plus blind kids touch faces and mouths which our kids can’t. AND blind children do have delayed speech in my experience.

What are you even advocating for, though? There is no reasonable way to request/require "no masks for caregivers" for licensed daycare centers. Not going to happen, they will always be allowed. The requirements for them probably will eventually drop, but who knows when. It won't be driven by parents, but by health.

Are you advocating everyone should use a nanny or stay home with their little ones?

Are you just trying to stir up fear in parents, or manufacture a controversy?

I am one of the PPs. I am advocating for making masks optional for young children so that when DD speaks, her teachers can understand her better and she doesn't get frustrated. So that hopefully she can see and hear her friends speak more clearly. Of course, I think it would be great to live in a world where her caregivers can be without masks too, but we do not currently live in that world, and I and others are very much aware of that.

But if you've seen anyone actually advocating for prohibiting mask wearing in child care settings, please provide a link.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here’s what the AAP says about masks and speech: https://www.healthychildren.org/English/health-issues/conditions/COVID-19/Pages/Do-face-masks-interfere-with-language-development.aspx

Our toddler and preschooler have both learned two languages over the past two years, and because we are at high risk, we live like we’re in a monastery except for preschool, which is fully masked.

One of the challenges of this kind of discussion is that it’s really, really hard to control for confounding variables in human subject research and we tend to see our own experiences (and ignore anything that doesn’t conform to it). You have to be exceptionally well trained to avoid these obstacles when evaluating the effects of various policies and interventions.

If masks are contributing to speech delays, good evidence to that effect is not yet available. OTOH, we have very clear evidence that Covid can be quite dangerous. And masks and distancing are among our limited tools for dealing with it. Sometimes you have to make the best of a bad situation.

It's a little disturbing that the AAP cites visually impaired children as proof that masks can't possibly impact development, when large percentages of blind children have developmental disabilities. They are making claims they can't possibly have the information to make.

+1. And you can’t make the comparison between a child who sees nothing and I child you sometimes sees words mouthed and other times not. Plus blind kids touch faces and mouths which our kids can’t. AND blind children do have delayed speech in my experience.

What are you even advocating for, though? There is no reasonable way to request/require "no masks for caregivers" for licensed daycare centers. Not going to happen, they will always be allowed. The requirements for them probably will eventually drop, but who knows when. It won't be driven by parents, but by health.

Are you advocating everyone should use a nanny or stay home with their little ones?

Are you just trying to stir up fear in parents, or manufacture a controversy?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here’s what the AAP says about masks and speech: https://www.healthychildren.org/English/health-issues/conditions/COVID-19/Pages/Do-face-masks-interfere-with-language-development.aspx

Our toddler and preschooler have both learned two languages over the past two years, and because we are at high risk, we live like we’re in a monastery except for preschool, which is fully masked.

One of the challenges of this kind of discussion is that it’s really, really hard to control for confounding variables in human subject research and we tend to see our own experiences (and ignore anything that doesn’t conform to it). You have to be exceptionally well trained to avoid these obstacles when evaluating the effects of various policies and interventions.

If masks are contributing to speech delays, good evidence to that effect is not yet available. OTOH, we have very clear evidence that Covid can be quite dangerous. And masks and distancing are among our limited tools for dealing with it. Sometimes you have to make the best of a bad situation.

It's a little disturbing that the AAP cites visually impaired children as proof that masks can't possibly impact development, when large percentages of blind children have developmental disabilities. They are making claims they can't possibly have the information to make.

+1. And you can’t make the comparison between a child who sees nothing and I child you sometimes sees words mouthed and other times not. Plus blind kids touch faces and mouths which our kids can’t. AND blind children do have delayed speech in my experience.

Anonymous wrote:Here’s what the AAP says about masks and speech: https://www.healthychildren.org/English/health-issues/conditions/COVID-19/Pages/Do-face-masks-interfere-with-language-development.aspx

Our toddler and preschooler have both learned two languages over the past two years, and because we are at high risk, we live like we’re in a monastery except for preschool, which is fully masked.

One of the challenges of this kind of discussion is that it’s really, really hard to control for confounding variables in human subject research and we tend to see our own experiences (and ignore anything that doesn’t conform to it). You have to be exceptionally well trained to avoid these obstacles when evaluating the effects of various policies and interventions.

If masks are contributing to speech delays, good evidence to that effect is not yet available. OTOH, we have very clear evidence that Covid can be quite dangerous. And masks and distancing are among our limited tools for dealing with it. Sometimes you have to make the best of a bad situation.

It's a little disturbing that the AAP cites visually impaired children as proof that masks can't possibly impact development, when large percentages of blind children have developmental disabilities. They are making claims they can't possibly have the information to make.

My day care kid had a speech delay, but we were able to keep him home until about a year so I'm not sure if the day care was responsible. The good news is that we did get an EI evaluation and services and at two he's making tons of visible progress. It's very possible that there may be an increase and my hope would be we put enough funding into EI and special ed to help kids who need it (but I fear Pp who said parents will just be blamed is right).

Anonymous wrote:Here’s what the AAP says about masks and speech: https://www.healthychildren.org/English/health-issues/conditions/COVID-19/Pages/Do-face-masks-interfere-with-language-development.aspx

Our toddler and preschooler have both learned two languages over the past two years, and because we are at high risk, we live like we’re in a monastery except for preschool, which is fully masked.

One of the challenges of this kind of discussion is that it’s really, really hard to control for confounding variables in human subject research and we tend to see our own experiences (and ignore anything that doesn’t conform to it). You have to be exceptionally well trained to avoid these obstacles when evaluating the effects of various policies and interventions.

If masks are contributing to speech delays, good evidence to that effect is not yet available. OTOH, we have very clear evidence that Covid can be quite dangerous. And masks and distancing are among our limited tools for dealing with it. Sometimes you have to make the best of a bad situation.

Where is the study showing that masks for 2 year olds that only wear them half the day has any impact on the transmission of Covid? It's been nearly two years. There has been time to study this. It hasn't been a priority, obviously.

As the AAP recognizes, there is no study on the impact of masks on speech development one way or the other. Saying there is "no evidence" is not the same thing as saying there is no impact. And I take great issue with their assertion that because early intervention is focused on parent coaching, virtual is just as good. Yes, the intervention is done by the parent, but the therapist does the assessment. I can tell you in our case if the therapist had been working with our child in person, she would have noticed an issue that we did not see until months later after she graduated from early intervention. If we had been made aware of it earlier it would have been so much easier to address.

I don't really think it's about daycare workers having the right to protect themselves. At my daycare the workers wear the masks bc the parents demand it, I see them pull them off/expose their nose at every opportunity

I would bet a lot of money that if masks were optional for the workers at my daycare the vast majority would ditch them

I think it's really weighing the increased risk of COVID against the increased risk of speech delays. I'm honestly not sure where I come down on that - I don't feel like there is enough information about the link between masks and delays. We do know that masks help protect the kids from COVID

Here’s what the AAP says about masks and speech: https://www.healthychildren.org/English/health-issues/conditions/COVID-19/Pages/Do-face-masks-interfere-with-language-development.aspx

Our toddler and preschooler have both learned two languages over the past two years, and because we are at high risk, we live like we’re in a monastery except for preschool, which is fully masked.

One of the challenges of this kind of discussion is that it’s really, really hard to control for confounding variables in human subject research and we tend to see our own experiences (and ignore anything that doesn’t conform to it). You have to be exceptionally well trained to avoid these obstacles when evaluating the effects of various policies and interventions.

If masks are contributing to speech delays, good evidence to that effect is not yet available. OTOH, we have very clear evidence that Covid can be quite dangerous. And masks and distancing are among our limited tools for dealing with it. Sometimes you have to make the best of a bad situation.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Part of learning to speak is seeing how your mouth moves. This is a basic fact. You may ask your pediatrician.

No one is disputing this. The question is whether it's sufficient to see people move their mouth at home, after daycare, and on weekends, and how many kids are affected by this. Certainly, there would be many kids with speech problems in the absence of Covid masking rules, and even in the presence of these rules, there are kids who are verbally and socially advanced. It's not so straightforward.

The more a child is deprived of learning opportunities with a trusted, stable caregiver (parents, teacher, etc), the more severe the consequences will be.

Except that some kids are "advanced" despite this, and most posters commenting on commemts by speech therapists have described something like "an uptick." So it doesn't appear to be severe for all kids, but it also seems unclear imo what the scope is.

I'm someone who is concerned about the impact of masks. My child is advanced verbally, but is struggling socially. If there is an impact (which I think there is, but nobody will ever have proof if it's masks or something else), it's certainly going to affect each child differently. Children are not widgets. They each have their own personalities, level of resilience and vulnerabilities, as well as home environments. For example, because my child was previously delayed in speech, we did early intervention and learned a lot of strategies to help with speech acquisition. Maybe that's helped her get more advanced. Or maybe she was always going to be advanced, but would be doing even better without masks. I'll never know.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This has nothing to do with covid, but get a speech evaluation. The wait and see works with some kids and can really harm other kids.

You seem to know nothing about speech development.

Do enlighten us.

Babies must SEE how your mouth moves in order to learn how to speak normally. Duh.

Children seem to do quite well in countries where hijabs are worn, there's no evidence of increased speech delay.

hijabs don't cover your mouth, dummy

If you're talking about burqas, they aren't worn in the home and I'm pretty sure if you're a woman in a burqa country you're not sending your kid to daycare

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Part of learning to speak is seeing how your mouth moves. This is a basic fact. You may ask your pediatrician.

No one is disputing this. The question is whether it's sufficient to see people move their mouth at home, after daycare, and on weekends, and how many kids are affected by this. Certainly, there would be many kids with speech problems in the absence of Covid masking rules, and even in the presence of these rules, there are kids who are verbally and socially advanced. It's not so straightforward.

The more a child is deprived of learning opportunities with a trusted, stable caregiver (parents, teacher, etc), the more severe the consequences will be.

Except that some kids are "advanced" despite this, and most posters commenting on commemts by speech therapists have described something like "an uptick." So it doesn't appear to be severe for all kids, but it also seems unclear imo what the scope is.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The poster who keeps making these threads is obsessed and ridden with guilt. Look, just take care of your own kid, lady. All of your lobbying and spamming various message boards about how horrible day care workers are for wearing masks with your kids is just getting really sad.

Basically you're all up in arms and telling a bunch of minimum wage workers they have no right to protect themselves but they must enrich your child's life because you're too busy to do it yourself.

That's not their problem, lady. Teach your own kids to talk.

You keep posting the same lies over and over again. It's pathetic.Just because you post it a lot, doesn't make it true. I have seen nobody advocating for prohibiting child care workers from wearing masks. Stop lying.

I think this is a hard issue and, like so much of the pandemic, a reflection of societal failure. Daycare workers are poorly paid and now that BBB failed there’s little chance of immediate improvement. There’s definitely an element of classist i. acting like the poorly paid worker has to forego protection, so the kid in a higher SES can develop speech normally. However, most parents don’t have any choice but to use daycare. They are often basically going pro paying for it. So what is the solution? There really isn’t one. According to WHO, children under 5 don’t need a mask at all, but we live in such a broken society that we’ve pushed the most stringent precautions upon the least influential but also less vulnerable population.

Of course it’s bad for speech development. Trying to argue that it isn’t is just pure denialism. I do know this. In another 5 to 7 years, when public schools have deteriorated further, due to a lack of funding and an exploding population special needs kids, there will be threads on here blaming parents for their children’s special needs. Of that I am 100% sure. I just hope I’m not still posting here then, but that’s my journey.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Part of learning to speak is seeing how your mouth moves. This is a basic fact. You may ask your pediatrician.

No one is disputing this. The question is whether it's sufficient to see people move their mouth at home, after daycare, and on weekends, and how many kids are affected by this. Certainly, there would be many kids with speech problems in the absence of Covid masking rules, and even in the presence of these rules, there are kids who are verbally and socially advanced. It's not so straightforward.

The more a child is deprived of learning opportunities with a trusted, stable caregiver (parents, teacher, etc), the more severe the consequences will be.

Anonymous wrote:The poster who keeps making these threads is obsessed and ridden with guilt. Look, just take care of your own kid, lady. All of your lobbying and spamming various message boards about how horrible day care workers are for wearing masks with your kids is just getting really sad.

Basically you're all up in arms and telling a bunch of minimum wage workers they have no right to protect themselves but they must enrich your child's life because you're too busy to do it yourself.

That's not their problem, lady. Teach your own kids to talk.

You keep posting the same lies over and over again. It's pathetic.Just because you post it a lot, doesn't make it true. I have seen nobody advocating for prohibiting child care workers from wearing masks. Stop lying.