Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"No divorce decree would contain language like this. It might have language about contributing to a 529 and ownership of that account. But no MSA can require payment for college for a grown child"

Mine has it and the judge reviewed it carefully before approving it.

Same. The language can be put in if your ex agrees to it.

Just so long as you understand it isn’t enforceable.

People put lots of stuff in MSAs that aren’t enforceable. Usually stuff like one spouse cannot drink alcohol while kids are in custody or that girlfriends/boyfriends can’t sleep over etc. Lawyers agree to put it in because billable hours. But if push came to shove and someone takes the other to court, no judge will issue a contempt order based on that kind of language. And no judge would order a dad to pay college tuition for a private university.

[u]

Divorce lawyer here: This is 100% incorrect. It is a contract and a court order. It is just as enforceable as any other order or contract. Obviously you can't squeeze blood from a turnip, but if the money exists, he will need to pay. If he fails to, it remains a debt of his forever...and collectable when he dies. It can be taken from bank accounts.

But, to clarify, the DH obligation to contribute to college must be in the divorce contract in the first place. We don’t know what is in OP’s agreement. And some states will not reopen an agreement to include college expenses, like the District of Columbia. It’s viewed as a luxury. Which is why you need a good divorce lawyer at the beginning who thinks about college and inserts it into the agreement.

If you're willing to pay full tuition, room and board for the full time frame so your DC can attend that college, then you apply early decision. The chances of acceptance increase specifically because the school knows they're not going to have to spring for as much financial aid for these kids. It's a win-win for school and kids. Ideally they can even wrap up any diversity quotas with well-off PoCs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe it's me, but feels like there are one or more men's right activists in this thread with all the references to men being bamboozled, etc. When they became dads did they just think it was going to be all shits and giggles?

It’s just you. How is this a men’s rights issue anyway?

No, it’s not just that poster. I recognize the language of the men’s rights activists. I also note that OP never said she wouldn’t pay anything. She just asked what to do about her child’s father refusing to pay anything.

I’ve known deadbeat dads who wanted their ex-BILs and ex-SILs to pay for their kids education b/c they’ve decided that their ex-in-laws have money and should pay. There are more entitled deadbeats out there than people realize.

You are not a deadbeat for not paying for college. Many married, divorced and single parents don't pay because they cannot afford it or don't want to. This is not a deadbeat situation A deadbeat is when a parent is ordered to pay child support and they don't pay it. Anything over age 18/after graduation from college is voluntary. OP isn't giving any real information about the entire situation including incomes, other responsibilities, how much he is paying in support and extra's, how much each parent can afford/willing to pay and how much the child will pay (summer earnings).

She is also refusing to pay from the minimum information provided. She expected financial aid, they didn't get it and is now demanding that Dad fully pay.

We don't know Dad's side.

Yes, we DK the dad's side, but the dad SHOULD HAVE TOLD HIS DAUGHTER HE WASN'T GOING TO PAY FOR COLLEGE WAY BEFORE HE SIGNED THE FAFSA FORM AND, IF NOT THEN, DEFINITELY WHEN HE SIGNED IT A FEW MONTHS AGO. That's part of being a parent, having hard conversations with your kid. Yes, he is not obligated to pay but any parent worth their salt should have told the kid once they saw the kid was on a college track about what they would/not handle for college. The dad owed that to the kid.

Filling out the FAFSA doesn’t obligate someone to pay for any school. It gets sent to whatever schools are entered. We sent it to 15 once.
I would argue, in fact filling out the FAFSA is making it clear the parent CANT AFFORD that school, otherwise they wouldn’t be asking for aid.

You are BEYOND DENSE, BEYOND DENSE. Nowhere above did I write "filling out the FAFSA obligates the father to pay for school." What I wrote is that the child was OWED a conversation about what the dad would/not provide for college. Some parents might use completion of the FAFSA form to clarify what they see as their obligations. A more forwarding thinking parent would have had the conversation once they saw that their child was an exceptional student and may want to pursue an undergrad degree at an Ivy. If this student got into Cornell, then that possibility was probably fairly clear by the start of HS, if not earlier.

Also, FAFSA indicates the estimated family contribution (EFC). Unless the dad is wholly, wholly ignorant of how federal aid works, there is a strong possibility that the kid's EFC was not going to be zero. When I was in college long ago, believe the EFC was a minimum $500.

There should now be a "parental contribution" for all kids headed to college in which the parent explains what, if anything, they will be paying for college NO LATER than signing the FAFSA form, preferably in middle school/start of HS.

Nah you are far over simplifying things and only hearing OPs version. She is literally saying he “makes more” and not mentioning her contribution - OP needs to step up, too. I believe Cornell requires the CSS, so to say that FAFSA will give him the EFC and he should expect that is not really on point since they use the CSS. Filing the FAFSA tells you very little - much less than you make it out to be. Our EFC didn’t match the final numbers the schools came back with anyways.

Telling a middle schooler what you can contribute is like play money. They have no concept. Even high schoolers struggle with it because it all just sounds like a lot to them. The REAL money talks for us happened when they saw the offers from multiple schools to compare them. I agree parents should give some indication if we can afford in-state public, the sky’s the limit, that kind of thing as soon as possible.

Anyways, you sound entitled and like you haven’t actually been through the financial aid process recently.

Hilarious. Don't think I have ever seen someone call another person entitled, then immediately refer to their financial aid status and that if it wasn't recent, then it was invalid.

My parents told me at 9 or 10, sometime after I had asked "what is college?," that they would not be paying for it because they had no extra money, absolutely none. I received some modest merit scholarships through the college, but the bulk of my BA was paid for through federal/state grants, including Pell, and loans. My EFC was $500 for at least two of my four years of college and my parents generally managed to scrape that together for the beginning of the semester.

Yes, telling a middle schooler about what the parent will cover in college may be akin to talking about play money, but that is why a parent continues to have that conversation and that it evolves as the kid matures. Signing the FAFSA form was the perfect opportunity for the dad to say what he would/not pay for it if he had not already done so.

Waiting until there are multiple offers can be helpful, but if a parent knows that there is no way that they will pay for a private university, then that should have been addressed up front. PP, you even acknowledged: "I agree parents should give some indication if we can afford in-state public, the sky’s the limit, that kind of thing as soon as possible."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reality check - No one owes their child a college education. Especially an expensive private. My daughter could have been admitted anywhere. Perfect SAT. Plus, a National Merit Scholar. 4.45 GPA. We were totally upfront starting in ninth grade with all our kids. We will pay in-state tuition at a public university. If you choose private or OOS, you cover the difference.

All my kids got academic scholarships at great public universities. We don’t qualify for need based assistance. They all graduated, got really good jobs, and gave no student loan debt. One of them did ROTC and was commissioned. He now draws Captains pay while the Army fully funds his medical school.

Teach your kids to make good financial decisions. I would love to drive a Lexus. I can’t afford a Lexus and will not go into debt for a car. I drive a really nice Toyota. It doesn’t have the Lexus logo on it. But it does the job.

Nobody owes their kid anything after they turn 18.

They DO owe their kids an up front explanation of what they’re willing to pay for. It looks like you did that. But OP’s ex participated in the process—by signing the FAFSA and presumably not being totally clueless about where she was applying—yet he failed to have that conversation.

Worse, assuming he had even the most minimal conversation with his daughter about her application process, she may have taken his silence as a tacit OK.

Do the actual kids attending the college bear any responsibility in your opinion?
Since it’s their education, they can also open up a conversation about how it will be funded. It seems to be assuming someone will pay $300k based on their “silence as a tacit ok” is a great life lesson to learn. Especially if there is any tension in the relationship with their father/ex husband.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe it's me, but feels like there are one or more men's right activists in this thread with all the references to men being bamboozled, etc. When they became dads did they just think it was going to be all shits and giggles?

It’s just you. How is this a men’s rights issue anyway?

No, it’s not just that poster. I recognize the language of the men’s rights activists. I also note that OP never said she wouldn’t pay anything. She just asked what to do about her child’s father refusing to pay anything.

I’ve known deadbeat dads who wanted their ex-BILs and ex-SILs to pay for their kids education b/c they’ve decided that their ex-in-laws have money and should pay. There are more entitled deadbeats out there than people realize.

You are not a deadbeat for not paying for college. Many married, divorced and single parents don't pay because they cannot afford it or don't want to. This is not a deadbeat situation A deadbeat is when a parent is ordered to pay child support and they don't pay it. Anything over age 18/after graduation from college is voluntary. OP isn't giving any real information about the entire situation including incomes, other responsibilities, how much he is paying in support and extra's, how much each parent can afford/willing to pay and how much the child will pay (summer earnings).

She is also refusing to pay from the minimum information provided. She expected financial aid, they didn't get it and is now demanding that Dad fully pay.

We don't know Dad's side.

Yes, we DK the dad's side, but the dad SHOULD HAVE TOLD HIS DAUGHTER HE WASN'T GOING TO PAY FOR COLLEGE WAY BEFORE HE SIGNED THE FAFSA FORM AND, IF NOT THEN, DEFINITELY WHEN HE SIGNED IT A FEW MONTHS AGO. That's part of being a parent, having hard conversations with your kid. Yes, he is not obligated to pay but any parent worth their salt should have told the kid once they saw the kid was on a college track about what they would/not handle for college. The dad owed that to the kid.

I signed the FAFSA and told my kid two things:

1) I won’t stand in your way of applying and I will sign the FAFSA so you can be considered for aid, but I will not pay any gap between in-state VA and out-of-state Public.

2) I will similarly not sign a parent plus loan unless extremely limited circumstances occur like getting into an exclusive program at an elite university that puts you on track for a high-paying career. This is because I love you and don’t want you taking on debt without a very secure path to pay it off quickly. I also will not leverage my future as I approach retirement because I don’t want to be a financial burden on you as you start out your own life.

3) I have your in-state tuition covered with a prepaid plan. Please value that.

And what if your child’s only in-state public option is far inferior to other schools they get into?

That’s life. I’m married and my kids has to take the affordable option over Georgetown or figure out how to pay for it.
No one is entitled to a college that is $75k a year.

That’s a line you are free to hold, but you not entitled to it being consequence-free. Not one is talking about the dad in the OP bankrupting himself to pay for college, this guy isn’t willing to contribute anything despite likely having the means to do so. If you wield college funding as a weapon to force your kid to make your preferred choice rather than facilitating their choice, that’s not going to create a lot of warm and fuzzy feelings.

Am I supposed to rob a bank so my kids can go to their dream schools and feel warm and fuzzy? WT actual F. I can’t saddle them with debt and I can’t compromise my retirement. There were several good posts about it. I mean I’d love to “facilitate” their choice but how do you suggest finding an extra $300k??
And you have ZERO idea how much OPs ex makes. None. Nobody here knows whether he can afford it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe it's me, but feels like there are one or more men's right activists in this thread with all the references to men being bamboozled, etc. When they became dads did they just think it was going to be all shits and giggles?

It’s just you. How is this a men’s rights issue anyway?

No, it’s not just that poster. I recognize the language of the men’s rights activists. I also note that OP never said she wouldn’t pay anything. She just asked what to do about her child’s father refusing to pay anything.

I’ve known deadbeat dads who wanted their ex-BILs and ex-SILs to pay for their kids education b/c they’ve decided that their ex-in-laws have money and should pay. There are more entitled deadbeats out there than people realize.

You are not a deadbeat for not paying for college. Many married, divorced and single parents don't pay because they cannot afford it or don't want to. This is not a deadbeat situation A deadbeat is when a parent is ordered to pay child support and they don't pay it. Anything over age 18/after graduation from college is voluntary. OP isn't giving any real information about the entire situation including incomes, other responsibilities, how much he is paying in support and extra's, how much each parent can afford/willing to pay and how much the child will pay (summer earnings).

She is also refusing to pay from the minimum information provided. She expected financial aid, they didn't get it and is now demanding that Dad fully pay.

We don't know Dad's side.

Yes, we DK the dad's side, but the dad SHOULD HAVE TOLD HIS DAUGHTER HE WASN'T GOING TO PAY FOR COLLEGE WAY BEFORE HE SIGNED THE FAFSA FORM AND, IF NOT THEN, DEFINITELY WHEN HE SIGNED IT A FEW MONTHS AGO. That's part of being a parent, having hard conversations with your kid. Yes, he is not obligated to pay but any parent worth their salt should have told the kid once they saw the kid was on a college track about what they would/not handle for college. The dad owed that to the kid.

Filling out the FAFSA doesn’t obligate someone to pay for any school. It gets sent to whatever schools are entered. We sent it to 15 once.
I would argue, in fact filling out the FAFSA is making it clear the parent CANT AFFORD that school, otherwise they wouldn’t be asking for aid.

You are BEYOND DENSE, BEYOND DENSE. Nowhere above did I write "filling out the FAFSA obligates the father to pay for school." What I wrote is that the child was OWED a conversation about what the dad would/not provide for college. Some parents might use completion of the FAFSA form to clarify what they see as their obligations. A more forwarding thinking parent would have had the conversation once they saw that their child was an exceptional student and may want to pursue an undergrad degree at an Ivy. If this student got into Cornell, then that possibility was probably fairly clear by the start of HS, if not earlier.

Also, FAFSA indicates the estimated family contribution (EFC). Unless the dad is wholly, wholly ignorant of how federal aid works, there is a strong possibility that the kid's EFC was not going to be zero. When I was in college long ago, believe the EFC was a minimum $500.

There should now be a "parental contribution" for all kids headed to college in which the parent explains what, if anything, they will be paying for college NO LATER than signing the FAFSA form, preferably in middle school/start of HS.

Nah you are far over simplifying things and only hearing OPs version. She is literally saying he “makes more” and not mentioning her contribution - OP needs to step up, too. I believe Cornell requires the CSS, so to say that FAFSA will give him the EFC and he should expect that is not really on point since they use the CSS. Filing the FAFSA tells you very little - much less than you make it out to be. Our EFC didn’t match the final numbers the schools came back with anyways.

Telling a middle schooler what you can contribute is like play money. They have no concept. Even high schoolers struggle with it because it all just sounds like a lot to them. The REAL money talks for us happened when they saw the offers from multiple schools to compare them. I agree parents should give some indication if we can afford in-state public, the sky’s the limit, that kind of thing as soon as possible.

Anyways, you sound entitled and like you haven’t actually been through the financial aid process recently.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reality check - No one owes their child a college education. Especially an expensive private. My daughter could have been admitted anywhere. Perfect SAT. Plus, a National Merit Scholar. 4.45 GPA. We were totally upfront starting in ninth grade with all our kids. We will pay in-state tuition at a public university. If you choose private or OOS, you cover the difference.

All my kids got academic scholarships at great public universities. We don’t qualify for need based assistance. They all graduated, got really good jobs, and gave no student loan debt. One of them did ROTC and was commissioned. He now draws Captains pay while the Army fully funds his medical school.

Teach your kids to make good financial decisions. I would love to drive a Lexus. I can’t afford a Lexus and will not go into debt for a car. I drive a really nice Toyota. It doesn’t have the Lexus logo on it. But it does the job.

Nobody owes their kid anything after they turn 18.

They DO owe their kids an up front explanation of what they’re willing to pay for. It looks like you did that. But OP’s ex participated in the process—by signing the FAFSA and presumably not being totally clueless about where she was applying—yet he failed to have that conversation.

Worse, assuming he had even the most minimal conversation with his daughter about her application process, she may have taken his silence as a tacit OK.

TY! This is Parenting 101.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe it's me, but feels like there are one or more men's right activists in this thread with all the references to men being bamboozled, etc. When they became dads did they just think it was going to be all shits and giggles?

It’s just you. How is this a men’s rights issue anyway?

No, it’s not just that poster. I recognize the language of the men’s rights activists. I also note that OP never said she wouldn’t pay anything. She just asked what to do about her child’s father refusing to pay anything.

I’ve known deadbeat dads who wanted their ex-BILs and ex-SILs to pay for their kids education b/c they’ve decided that their ex-in-laws have money and should pay. There are more entitled deadbeats out there than people realize.

You are not a deadbeat for not paying for college. Many married, divorced and single parents don't pay because they cannot afford it or don't want to. This is not a deadbeat situation A deadbeat is when a parent is ordered to pay child support and they don't pay it. Anything over age 18/after graduation from college is voluntary. OP isn't giving any real information about the entire situation including incomes, other responsibilities, how much he is paying in support and extra's, how much each parent can afford/willing to pay and how much the child will pay (summer earnings).

She is also refusing to pay from the minimum information provided. She expected financial aid, they didn't get it and is now demanding that Dad fully pay.

We don't know Dad's side.

Yes, we DK the dad's side, but the dad SHOULD HAVE TOLD HIS DAUGHTER HE WASN'T GOING TO PAY FOR COLLEGE WAY BEFORE HE SIGNED THE FAFSA FORM AND, IF NOT THEN, DEFINITELY WHEN HE SIGNED IT A FEW MONTHS AGO. That's part of being a parent, having hard conversations with your kid. Yes, he is not obligated to pay but any parent worth their salt should have told the kid once they saw the kid was on a college track about what they would/not handle for college. The dad owed that to the kid.

Filling out the FAFSA doesn’t obligate someone to pay for any school. It gets sent to whatever schools are entered. We sent it to 15 once.
I would argue, in fact filling out the FAFSA is making it clear the parent CANT AFFORD that school, otherwise they wouldn’t be asking for aid.

You are BEYOND DENSE, BEYOND DENSE. Nowhere above did I write "filling out the FAFSA obligates the father to pay for school." What I wrote is that the child was OWED a conversation about what the dad would/not provide for college. Some parents might use completion of the FAFSA form to clarify what they see as their obligations. A more forwarding thinking parent would have had the conversation once they saw that their child was an exceptional student and may want to pursue an undergrad degree at an Ivy. If this student got into Cornell, then that possibility was probably fairly clear by the start of HS, if not earlier.

Also, FAFSA indicates the estimated family contribution (EFC). Unless the dad is wholly, wholly ignorant of how federal aid works, there is a strong possibility that the kid's EFC was not going to be zero. When I was in college long ago, believe the EFC was a minimum $500.

There should now be a "parental contribution" for all kids headed to college in which the parent explains what, if anything, they will be paying for college NO LATER than signing the FAFSA form, preferably in middle school/start of HS.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"No divorce decree would contain language like this. It might have language about contributing to a 529 and ownership of that account. But no MSA can require payment for college for a grown child"

Mine has it and the judge reviewed it carefully before approving it.

Same. The language can be put in if your ex agrees to it.

Just so long as you understand it isn’t enforceable.

People put lots of stuff in MSAs that aren’t enforceable. Usually stuff like one spouse cannot drink alcohol while kids are in custody or that girlfriends/boyfriends can’t sleep over etc. Lawyers agree to put it in because billable hours. But if push came to shove and someone takes the other to court, no judge will issue a contempt order based on that kind of language. And no judge would order a dad to pay college tuition for a private university.

[u]

Divorce lawyer here: This is 100% incorrect. It is a contract and a court order. It is just as enforceable as any other order or contract. Obviously you can't squeeze blood from a turnip, but if the money exists, he will need to pay. If he fails to, it remains a debt of his forever...and collectable when he dies. It can be taken from bank accounts.

Anonymous wrote:Reality check - No one owes their child a college education. Especially an expensive private. My daughter could have been admitted anywhere. Perfect SAT. Plus, a National Merit Scholar. 4.45 GPA. We were totally upfront starting in ninth grade with all our kids. We will pay in-state tuition at a public university. If you choose private or OOS, you cover the difference.

All my kids got academic scholarships at great public universities. We don’t qualify for need based assistance. They all graduated, got really good jobs, and gave no student loan debt. One of them did ROTC and was commissioned. He now draws Captains pay while the Army fully funds his medical school.

Teach your kids to make good financial decisions. I would love to drive a Lexus. I can’t afford a Lexus and will not go into debt for a car. I drive a really nice Toyota. It doesn’t have the Lexus logo on it. But it does the job.

Nobody owes their kid anything after they turn 18.

They DO owe their kids an up front explanation of what they’re willing to pay for. It looks like you did that. But OP’s ex participated in the process—by signing the FAFSA and presumably not being totally clueless about where she was applying—yet he failed to have that conversation.

Worse, assuming he had even the most minimal conversation with his daughter about her application process, she may have taken his silence as a tacit OK.

Reality check - No one owes their child a college education. Especially an expensive private. My daughter could have been admitted anywhere. Perfect SAT. Plus, a National Merit Scholar. 4.45 GPA. We were totally upfront starting in ninth grade with all our kids. We will pay in-state tuition at a public university. If you choose private or OOS, you cover the difference.

All my kids got academic scholarships at great public universities. We don’t qualify for need based assistance. They all graduated, got really good jobs, and gave no student loan debt. One of them did ROTC and was commissioned. He now draws Captains pay while the Army fully funds his medical school.

Teach your kids to make good financial decisions. I would love to drive a Lexus. I can’t afford a Lexus and will not go into debt for a car. I drive a really nice Toyota. It doesn’t have the Lexus logo on it. But it does the job.

Anonymous wrote:
I signed the FAFSA and told my kid two things:

1) I won’t stand in your way of applying and I will sign the FAFSA so you can be considered for aid, but I will not pay any gap between in-state VA and out-of-state Public.

2) I will similarly not sign a parent plus loan unless extremely limited circumstances occur like getting into an exclusive program at an elite university that puts you on track for a high-paying career. This is because I love you and don’t want you taking on debt without a very secure path to pay it off quickly. I also will not leverage my future as I approach retirement because I don’t want to be a financial burden on you as you start out your own life.

3) I have your in-state tuition covered with a prepaid plan. Please value that.