Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We live in a dystopian hellscape and nothing proves it more than this.

Somewhat.

Middle class life in Netherlands is objectively very good but it isn’t like they have a lot of kids their either

Across all societies, the trend is that as countries get wealthier and women get more freedom and education, fertility rates fall. Basically, when given a choice, women will typically choose to have fewer kids.

Of course. Women have many more career options these days than they had even 20 years ago. Women are actively encouraged from girlhood on to take on rigorous careers—STEM! Medicine! Law!—and to practice other hobbies and interests like sports and the arts. Of course, many women have rich, complete lives focusing on those things alone! Having children is a well-documented interruption to a woman’s career. In some cases, not having children (or having fewer) is JUST about career trajectory and a woman wants to climb, earn, be promoted, etc. But in other cases, women are genuinely more satisfied by the intellectual or creative work they’re doing than by watching a baby learn to crawl.

Men just two generations ago were given license to stay interested in their careers/other pursuits and be parents basically in title alone. But this, too, is changing, and now men are being asked to bear the burden that women have long been carrying alone. Watching a toddler at the park, waking up in the middle of the night, staying home with a sick kid, driving kids to soccer games…all giving men less time to focus on their own intellectual, career, or creative pursuits. Some men will enjoy that experience. Others won’t. So now that housework is a little more evenly distributed, mens careers/hobbies/leisure pursuits AND womens careers/hobbies/leisure pursuits are disrupted….of course people are having less children.

Not to mention that having a child is LEAGUES more expensive than it was for Boomers. Consider college tuition alone. The low birth rate iissue reaches multiple areas of our culture that need attention: the environment, higher education, working conditions, daycare options, healthcare, etc. Until we have a solution to some of the problems that directly intersect with the decision to have children, it is a perfectly logical decision not to have children in today’s world.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it is because women and men are more lazy. I say that as my mother in law and father in law both with HS degrees had there kids.

My father in law after first took a part time job 20 hours a week after his full time job, they both a single failing house with two “boarders” in house in upstairs of cape. They rented rooms. They never went out to eat and mom went back to work when youngest turned 12.

Today most men would not get a second job, take in a boarder or skip luxuries a few years so wife could stay home and have three kids. They just whine and watch Netflix and play fortnight whine they hire gardeners, gutter cleaners. and handymen to do their work whine their wife struggles to work full time and raise kids. No wonder women are pushing back.

This is very true. American men are absurdly lazy. I’m an immigrant woman who married an American man and this laggard is bringing down the family. He combines very high living standards with very poor work ethic. I was working in very lucrative job when we married and so was he. Two special needs kids later, we are in a diminished financial position. I am the one who suffered complications giving birth to them and who does most of the childcare, yet I am undaunted. I stick to a budget and I have a side gig that is bringing in $2000-3000 extra per month. It never occurred to me to give up.

In contrast, my husband’s expenses have gone up as he has added a therapist to coach him through the depression that no longer having it easy has apparently caused him. He insist that he went to school for only one thing, so he can’t learn new skills or even help grow my side gig. He works only 9-5 and mismanages his time so that his ranking in his sales job has steadily fallen. Soon, he will be unemployed and he has another thing coming if he thinks he’s going to live off me.

All of the men in my family are absolutely scandalized by how useless he is. All of the Americans in our friend group, however, applaud him merely for holding down a job despite his “depression.” People here just have very low standards for themselves. The concept of rising to the occasion just doesn’t exist in this culture—at least not among middle class whites.

Depression is an illness that can be debilitating. How dare you put it in sarcastic quotes. I struggle with it daily. Your attitude doesn't help him at all-- I don't even think you want to help him. You should divorce him if you don't have any respect for him. He would be better off without a wife like you who only values money.

Immigrant PP here. Don’t whine about depression to me, you lazy American. Laziness is what you’re suffering from. Do you want to know what depression is? Depression is losing two siblings to malaria and my mother to complications from childbirth because we couldn’t afford ordinary antibiotics. That’s my background. Now that I am a mother, I feel those losses even deeply. And that’s just a fraction of my story. In spite of that suffering, I get up every single day and fight to do what I have to do. Because I have responsibilities to others. I owe it to my children and my family to do my part. You Americans have no concept of owing others something. If you don’t feel like doing something for yourself, that’s the end of the story. It’s all about you. And that’s why your whole life collapses once one bad thing happens to you. You are quitters. Even your divorce answer is that of a quitter. My husband needs to get up and get to living. I will do my best to motivate him. I am not staying for the joy of him. I am staying to keep my children’s family together and because I still believe in him — concepts most Americans don’t understand. I would never ever marry an American again, but I made my bed with this one and will stay the course as long as I can.

I agree. Also, we have a loud minority that continually blames others instead of looking at facts. A lot of blame game and lazy people for sure.

I didn't have children. I simply wasn't that interested. If other people think that's self absorbed or my life isn't fulfilling that's ok.

I do worry for the planet and that is an honest comment. However that is not the reason for not having children, I simply couldn't be bothered. Too many other things I want to do in life.

In saying that I am extremely happy for our friends who are parents and enjoy it. I see their stresses and their joys, it definitely seems more up and down, their highs are very high and the lows can be very low, whereas my life is more an even keel. I guess people should just pick which life would suit them the best and go for it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think much of the problem for upper middle class parents is of our own making. The relentless competitiveness about parenting- everything is scheduled extra curriculars, tutoring, getting in to the best schools and colleges…when i was a kid we were expected to take a ball to the park and not come back before dark…

I don’t blame umc parents. It’s more treacherous staying in the UMC after you get there in the US.

Falling in ses has negative consequences that are more acute here than in Europe.

It’s literally a shift in health and life expectancy outcomes.

European moms are way more chill because If their kid(s) can’t afford their neighborhood and move to a neighborhood over with more poverty, it’s
Still relatively safe and food desserts aren’t really as common.

Agree. It really isn't the middle class' fault. The rich have hoarded so much over time that everyone else has to compete over access to getting into college and getting a "good" job.

Competition exists nowhere else in the world? You’re obviously not well-travelled.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it is because women and men are more lazy. I say that as my mother in law and father in law both with HS degrees had there kids.

My father in law after first took a part time job 20 hours a week after his full time job, they both a single failing house with two “boarders” in house in upstairs of cape. They rented rooms. They never went out to eat and mom went back to work when youngest turned 12.

Today most men would not get a second job, take in a boarder or skip luxuries a few years so wife could stay home and have three kids. They just whine and watch Netflix and play fortnight whine they hire gardeners, gutter cleaners. and handymen to do their work whine their wife struggles to work full time and raise kids. No wonder women are pushing back.

This is very true. American men are absurdly lazy. I’m an immigrant woman who married an American man and this laggard is bringing down the family. He combines very high living standards with very poor work ethic. I was working in very lucrative job when we married and so was he. Two special needs kids later, we are in a diminished financial position. I am the one who suffered complications giving birth to them and who does most of the childcare, yet I am undaunted. I stick to a budget and I have a side gig that is bringing in $2000-3000 extra per month. It never occurred to me to give up.

In contrast, my husband’s expenses have gone up as he has added a therapist to coach him through the depression that no longer having it easy has apparently caused him. He insist that he went to school for only one thing, so he can’t learn new skills or even help grow my side gig. He works only 9-5 and mismanages his time so that his ranking in his sales job has steadily fallen. Soon, he will be unemployed and he has another thing coming if he thinks he’s going to live off me.

All of the men in my family are absolutely scandalized by how useless he is. All of the Americans in our friend group, however, applaud him merely for holding down a job despite his “depression.” People here just have very low standards for themselves. The concept of rising to the occasion just doesn’t exist in this culture—at least not among middle class whites.

Depression is an illness that can be debilitating. How dare you put it in sarcastic quotes. I struggle with it daily. Your attitude doesn't help him at all-- I don't even think you want to help him. You should divorce him if you don't have any respect for him. He would be better off without a wife like you who only values money.

Immigrant PP here. Don’t whine about depression to me, you lazy American. Laziness is what you’re suffering from. Do you want to know what depression is? Depression is losing two siblings to malaria and my mother to complications from childbirth because we couldn’t afford ordinary antibiotics. That’s my background. Now that I am a mother, I feel those losses even deeply. And that’s just a fraction of my story. In spite of that suffering, I get up every single day and fight to do what I have to do. Because I have responsibilities to others. I owe it to my children and my family to do my part. You Americans have no concept of owing others something. If you don’t feel like doing something for yourself, that’s the end of the story. It’s all about you. And that’s why your whole life collapses once one bad thing happens to you. You are quitters. Even your divorce answer is that of a quitter. My husband needs to get up and get to living. I will do my best to motivate him. I am not staying for the joy of him. I am staying to keep my children’s family together and because I still believe in him — concepts most Americans don’t understand. I would never ever marry an American again, but I made my bed with this one and will stay the course as long as I can.

My grandfather, a white man, was married early in life. His first wife died in childbirth. He then married my grandmother. They lost their first child aged three to illness. He was married to my grandmother for close to 40 years when she died in a car accident. He then found a lovely lady friend who died in bed next to him after being together about 10 years.

He suffered from depression due to trauma throughout his life. There was so much loss in his life and yet he spent his life being a fire fighter dedicated to helping those around him, he worked his entire life. My grandparents also fostered a little boy and gave him a loving home.

Immigrants are not the only ones who suffer trauma and white men can be outstanding examples of human kindness just as I'm sure immigrant men can be. I would say the colour of a man's skin doesn't determine his worth or his heart. My grandfather fell at certain points in his life but eventually picked himself up. I have the greatest admiration for him and his ability to do so.

With so much hate in your heart, I am sure your husband struggles seeing this and this adds to his problems. You would do better being divorced where he can go be married to someone who doesn't disdain the colour of his skin and the fact that he is American.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it is because women and men are more lazy. I say that as my mother in law and father in law both with HS degrees had there kids.

My father in law after first took a part time job 20 hours a week after his full time job, they both a single failing house with two “boarders” in house in upstairs of cape. They rented rooms. They never went out to eat and mom went back to work when youngest turned 12.

Today most men would not get a second job, take in a boarder or skip luxuries a few years so wife could stay home and have three kids. They just whine and watch Netflix and play fortnight whine they hire gardeners, gutter cleaners. and handymen to do their work whine their wife struggles to work full time and raise kids. No wonder women are pushing back.

This is very true. American men are absurdly lazy. I’m an immigrant woman who married an American man and this laggard is bringing down the family. He combines very high living standards with very poor work ethic. I was working in very lucrative job when we married and so was he. Two special needs kids later, we are in a diminished financial position. I am the one who suffered complications giving birth to them and who does most of the childcare, yet I am undaunted. I stick to a budget and I have a side gig that is bringing in $2000-3000 extra per month. It never occurred to me to give up.

In contrast, my husband’s expenses have gone up as he has added a therapist to coach him through the depression that no longer having it easy has apparently caused him. He insist that he went to school for only one thing, so he can’t learn new skills or even help grow my side gig. He works only 9-5 and mismanages his time so that his ranking in his sales job has steadily fallen. Soon, he will be unemployed and he has another thing coming if he thinks he’s going to live off me.

All of the men in my family are absolutely scandalized by how useless he is. All of the Americans in our friend group, however, applaud him merely for holding down a job despite his “depression.” People here just have very low standards for themselves. The concept of rising to the occasion just doesn’t exist in this culture—at least not among middle class whites.

Depression is an illness that can be debilitating. How dare you put it in sarcastic quotes. I struggle with it daily. Your attitude doesn't help him at all-- I don't even think you want to help him. You should divorce him if you don't have any respect for him. He would be better off without a wife like you who only values money.

Immigrant PP here. Don’t whine about depression to me, you lazy American. Laziness is what you’re suffering from. Do you want to know what depression is? Depression is losing two siblings to malaria and my mother to complications from childbirth because we couldn’t afford ordinary antibiotics. That’s my background. Now that I am a mother, I feel those losses even deeply. And that’s just a fraction of my story. In spite of that suffering, I get up every single day and fight to do what I have to do. Because I have responsibilities to others. I owe it to my children and my family to do my part. You Americans have no concept of owing others something. If you don’t feel like doing something for yourself, that’s the end of the story. It’s all about you. And that’s why your whole life collapses once one bad thing happens to you. You are quitters. Even your divorce answer is that of a quitter. My husband needs to get up and get to living. I will do my best to motivate him. I am not staying for the joy of him. I am staying to keep my children’s family together and because I still believe in him — concepts most Americans don’t understand. I would never ever marry an American again, but I made my bed with this one and will stay the course as long as I can.

You and your husband both have serious mental health issues that need to be addressed, that is clear. Your hatred for all Americans is absolutely scary. Please get some help.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it is because women and men are more lazy. I say that as my mother in law and father in law both with HS degrees had there kids.

My father in law after first took a part time job 20 hours a week after his full time job, they both a single failing house with two “boarders” in house in upstairs of cape. They rented rooms. They never went out to eat and mom went back to work when youngest turned 12.

Today most men would not get a second job, take in a boarder or skip luxuries a few years so wife could stay home and have three kids. They just whine and watch Netflix and play fortnight whine they hire gardeners, gutter cleaners. and handymen to do their work whine their wife struggles to work full time and raise kids. No wonder women are pushing back.

This is very true. American men are absurdly lazy. I’m an immigrant woman who married an American man and this laggard is bringing down the family. He combines very high living standards with very poor work ethic. I was working in very lucrative job when we married and so was he. Two special needs kids later, we are in a diminished financial position. I am the one who suffered complications giving birth to them and who does most of the childcare, yet I am undaunted. I stick to a budget and I have a side gig that is bringing in $2000-3000 extra per month. It never occurred to me to give up.

In contrast, my husband’s expenses have gone up as he has added a therapist to coach him through the depression that no longer having it easy has apparently caused him. He insist that he went to school for only one thing, so he can’t learn new skills or even help grow my side gig. He works only 9-5 and mismanages his time so that his ranking in his sales job has steadily fallen. Soon, he will be unemployed and he has another thing coming if he thinks he’s going to live off me.

All of the men in my family are absolutely scandalized by how useless he is. All of the Americans in our friend group, however, applaud him merely for holding down a job despite his “depression.” People here just have very low standards for themselves. The concept of rising to the occasion just doesn’t exist in this culture—at least not among middle class whites.

Depression is an illness that can be debilitating. How dare you put it in sarcastic quotes. I struggle with it daily. Your attitude doesn't help him at all-- I don't even think you want to help him. You should divorce him if you don't have any respect for him. He would be better off without a wife like you who only values money.

Immigrant PP here. Don’t whine about depression to me, you lazy American. Laziness is what you’re suffering from. Do you want to know what depression is? Depression is losing two siblings to malaria and my mother to complications from childbirth because we couldn’t afford ordinary antibiotics. That’s my background. Now that I am a mother, I feel those losses even deeply. And that’s just a fraction of my story. In spite of that suffering, I get up every single day and fight to do what I have to do. Because I have responsibilities to others. I owe it to my children and my family to do my part. You Americans have no concept of owing others something. If you don’t feel like doing something for yourself, that’s the end of the story. It’s all about you. And that’s why your whole life collapses once one bad thing happens to you. You are quitters. Even your divorce answer is that of a quitter. My husband needs to get up and get to living. I will do my best to motivate him. I am not staying for the joy of him. I am staying to keep my children’s family together and because I still believe in him — concepts most Americans don’t understand. I would never ever marry an American again, but I made my bed with this one and will stay the course as long as I can.

No thats trauma. Depression is a chemical imbalance.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think much of the problem for upper middle class parents is of our own making. The relentless competitiveness about parenting- everything is scheduled extra curriculars, tutoring, getting in to the best schools and colleges…when i was a kid we were expected to take a ball to the park and not come back before dark…

I don’t blame umc parents. It’s more treacherous staying in the UMC after you get there in the US.

Falling in ses has negative consequences that are more acute here than in Europe.

It’s literally a shift in health and life expectancy outcomes.

European moms are way more chill because If their kid(s) can’t afford their neighborhood and move to a neighborhood over with more poverty, it’s
Still relatively safe and food desserts aren’t really as common.

Food desserts are super common in Europe. They have whole stores devoted to them—they’re called patisseries.

Anonymous wrote:I desperately wanted children. I wanted children so badly that I tried to conceive while single. I spent about five years and a hundred grand trying. I used IVF, a surrogate, all of it.
It didn't work out and there will always be regrets.
But my goodness, from what I read and hear and observe of parents, things are rough. Six year olds in constant crisis over their gender, eleven year olds in polyamarous relationships, bankrupting and marriage destroying special health concerns, not to mention school violence, drugs, extreme wealth inequality, the environment... Parenting seems so much more difficult than it was twenty years ago, and everything is more expensive.
I have a wonderful pet who will probably die before the world goes completely down the drain, and I'm cool to check out any time after she does. My life didn't turn out the way I had hoped, but I must say that it's a peaceful one.

Um, what?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who is going to buy all this real estate that is the main investment for most families? Declining population is not helpful to a healthy real estate market.

No one. I hate to break it to you but you'll end up stuck in your McMansion till both of you rot.

My neighbors are in their 70s and live alone in a 4100 SF house, 5 beds and 3.5 baths. They are miserable, hate all the kids in the neighborhood, and refuse to move. One day, someone will find them mummified in one of their zillion closets.

Why would you wish property values in your own neighborhood to be depressed? That’s dumb.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it is because women and men are more lazy. I say that as my mother in law and father in law both with HS degrees had there kids.

My father in law after first took a part time job 20 hours a week after his full time job, they both a single failing house with two “boarders” in house in upstairs of cape. They rented rooms. They never went out to eat and mom went back to work when youngest turned 12.

Today most men would not get a second job, take in a boarder or skip luxuries a few years so wife could stay home and have three kids. They just whine and watch Netflix and play fortnight whine they hire gardeners, gutter cleaners. and handymen to do their work whine their wife struggles to work full time and raise kids. No wonder women are pushing back.

This is very true. American men are absurdly lazy. I’m an immigrant woman who married an American man and this laggard is bringing down the family. He combines very high living standards with very poor work ethic. I was working in very lucrative job when we married and so was he. Two special needs kids later, we are in a diminished financial position. I am the one who suffered complications giving birth to them and who does most of the childcare, yet I am undaunted. I stick to a budget and I have a side gig that is bringing in $2000-3000 extra per month. It never occurred to me to give up.

In contrast, my husband’s expenses have gone up as he has added a therapist to coach him through the depression that no longer having it easy has apparently caused him. He insist that he went to school for only one thing, so he can’t learn new skills or even help grow my side gig. He works only 9-5 and mismanages his time so that his ranking in his sales job has steadily fallen. Soon, he will be unemployed and he has another thing coming if he thinks he’s going to live off me.

All of the men in my family are absolutely scandalized by how useless he is. All of the Americans in our friend group, however, applaud him merely for holding down a job despite his “depression.” People here just have very low standards for themselves. The concept of rising to the occasion just doesn’t exist in this culture—at least not among middle class whites.

Depression is an illness that can be debilitating. How dare you put it in sarcastic quotes. I struggle with it daily. Your attitude doesn't help him at all-- I don't even think you want to help him. You should divorce him if you don't have any respect for him. He would be better off without a wife like you who only values money.

Immigrant PP here. Don’t whine about depression to me, you lazy American. Laziness is what you’re suffering from. Do you want to know what depression is? Depression is losing two siblings to malaria and my mother to complications from childbirth because we couldn’t afford ordinary antibiotics. That’s my background. Now that I am a mother, I feel those losses even deeply. And that’s just a fraction of my story. In spite of that suffering, I get up every single day and fight to do what I have to do. Because I have responsibilities to others. I owe it to my children and my family to do my part. You Americans have no concept of owing others something. If you don’t feel like doing something for yourself, that’s the end of the story. It’s all about you. And that’s why your whole life collapses once one bad thing happens to you. You are quitters. Even your divorce answer is that of a quitter. My husband needs to get up and get to living. I will do my best to motivate him. I am not staying for the joy of him. I am staying to keep my children’s family together and because I still believe in him — concepts most Americans don’t understand. I would never ever marry an American again, but I made my bed with this one and will stay the course as long as I can.

If you hate Americans so much then why are you living in the USA? Just to talk shit about us while enjoying our infrastructure, laws and taxes to benefit your own family? You are a hateful person. I would be angry too if I lived with a husband that I dislike in a country that I hate.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it is because women and men are more lazy. I say that as my mother in law and father in law both with HS degrees had there kids.

My father in law after first took a part time job 20 hours a week after his full time job, they both a single failing house with two “boarders” in house in upstairs of cape. They rented rooms. They never went out to eat and mom went back to work when youngest turned 12.

Today most men would not get a second job, take in a boarder or skip luxuries a few years so wife could stay home and have three kids. They just whine and watch Netflix and play fortnight whine they hire gardeners, gutter cleaners. and handymen to do their work whine their wife struggles to work full time and raise kids. No wonder women are pushing back.

This is very true. American men are absurdly lazy. I’m an immigrant woman who married an American man and this laggard is bringing down the family. He combines very high living standards with very poor work ethic. I was working in very lucrative job when we married and so was he. Two special needs kids later, we are in a diminished financial position. I am the one who suffered complications giving birth to them and who does most of the childcare, yet I am undaunted. I stick to a budget and I have a side gig that is bringing in $2000-3000 extra per month. It never occurred to me to give up.

In contrast, my husband’s expenses have gone up as he has added a therapist to coach him through the depression that no longer having it easy has apparently caused him. He insist that he went to school for only one thing, so he can’t learn new skills or even help grow my side gig. He works only 9-5 and mismanages his time so that his ranking in his sales job has steadily fallen. Soon, he will be unemployed and he has another thing coming if he thinks he’s going to live off me.

All of the men in my family are absolutely scandalized by how useless he is. All of the Americans in our friend group, however, applaud him merely for holding down a job despite his “depression.” People here just have very low standards for themselves. The concept of rising to the occasion just doesn’t exist in this culture—at least not among middle class whites.

Yes, white males in this country have skated by for years on mediocrity. It’s a rough time right now for them. They are having to actually compete for things like all of us have had to all these years.

On a side note, our kids had problems early on. We did a ton of early intervention that cost us a fortune but it all paid off. Hang in there! It gets easier!

Immigrant PP here. Thank you for your encouragement. I know things will get better. That’s how life works. You weather difficulties and rise to the occasion and things get better. It’s all a cycle. In good times, you enjoy while remembering that bad times are coming because they always do. In bad times, you hold steady and remember that good times are coming because they always do. I think you are 100% right that white males have never had to compete and don’t want to learn how. That is why a lot of them are perpetually miserable, racist, misogynist, angry, shooting people, and engaging in other destructive acts. They think the world owes them something and if they don’t get what they think they deserve, they want to destroy everything.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it is because women and men are more lazy. I say that as my mother in law and father in law both with HS degrees had there kids.

My father in law after first took a part time job 20 hours a week after his full time job, they both a single failing house with two “boarders” in house in upstairs of cape. They rented rooms. They never went out to eat and mom went back to work when youngest turned 12.

Today most men would not get a second job, take in a boarder or skip luxuries a few years so wife could stay home and have three kids. They just whine and watch Netflix and play fortnight whine they hire gardeners, gutter cleaners. and handymen to do their work whine their wife struggles to work full time and raise kids. No wonder women are pushing back.

This is very true. American men are absurdly lazy. I’m an immigrant woman who married an American man and this laggard is bringing down the family. He combines very high living standards with very poor work ethic. I was working in very lucrative job when we married and so was he. Two special needs kids later, we are in a diminished financial position. I am the one who suffered complications giving birth to them and who does most of the childcare, yet I am undaunted. I stick to a budget and I have a side gig that is bringing in $2000-3000 extra per month. It never occurred to me to give up.

In contrast, my husband’s expenses have gone up as he has added a therapist to coach him through the depression that no longer having it easy has apparently caused him. He insist that he went to school for only one thing, so he can’t learn new skills or even help grow my side gig. He works only 9-5 and mismanages his time so that his ranking in his sales job has steadily fallen. Soon, he will be unemployed and he has another thing coming if he thinks he’s going to live off me.

All of the men in my family are absolutely scandalized by how useless he is. All of the Americans in our friend group, however, applaud him merely for holding down a job despite his “depression.” People here just have very low standards for themselves. The concept of rising to the occasion just doesn’t exist in this culture—at least not among middle class whites.

Depression is an illness that can be debilitating. How dare you put it in sarcastic quotes. I struggle with it daily. Your attitude doesn't help him at all-- I don't even think you want to help him. You should divorce him if you don't have any respect for him. He would be better off without a wife like you who only values money.

Immigrant PP here. Don’t whine about depression to me, you lazy American. Laziness is what you’re suffering from. Do you want to know what depression is? Depression is losing two siblings to malaria and my mother to complications from childbirth because we couldn’t afford ordinary antibiotics. That’s my background. Now that I am a mother, I feel those losses even deeply. And that’s just a fraction of my story. In spite of that suffering, I get up every single day and fight to do what I have to do. Because I have responsibilities to others. I owe it to my children and my family to do my part. You Americans have no concept of owing others something. If you don’t feel like doing something for yourself, that’s the end of the story. It’s all about you. And that’s why your whole life collapses once one bad thing happens to you. You are quitters. Even your divorce answer is that of a quitter. My husband needs to get up and get to living. I will do my best to motivate him. I am not staying for the joy of him. I am staying to keep my children’s family together and because I still believe in him — concepts most Americans don’t understand. I would never ever marry an American again, but I made my bed with this one and will stay the course as long as I can.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think much of the problem for upper middle class parents is of our own making. The relentless competitiveness about parenting- everything is scheduled extra curriculars, tutoring, getting in to the best schools and colleges…when i was a kid we were expected to take a ball to the park and not come back before dark…

I don’t blame umc parents. It’s more treacherous staying in the UMC after you get there in the US.

Falling in ses has negative consequences that are more acute here than in Europe.

It’s literally a shift in health and life expectancy outcomes.

European moms are way more chill because If their kid(s) can’t afford their neighborhood and move to a neighborhood over with more poverty, it’s
Still relatively safe and food desserts aren’t really as common.

Agree. It really isn't the middle class' fault. The rich have hoarded so much over time that everyone else has to compete over access to getting into college and getting a "good" job.

Anonymous wrote:Honestly I can see how this “not having kids” phenomenon is popular. The younger people in my office (late 20-30s) are way too pessimistic, self-absorbed, and unusually emotionally immature. I honestly doubt many could handle the challenges of parenting.

They are also typically in therapy. I wonder if their therapist plants the seed steering them away from parenthood?