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Anonymous wrote:Let’s be real here. You’re not gonna find a Michigan grad who praises ND. You have to take the Michigan grad with a grain of salt.

One of my kids turned down ND for UVA in state. I think it made a lot of sense money-wise, but I’m not going to say that UVA is a better school. It isn’t.

Thanks for your opinion.

By what objective measure is UVA better?

ND. Well, for starters UVA sends more Rhodes, Marshall and Fulbrights overseas than ND by far. Ask anyone at Oxford.

Well, of the first 1,500 Rhodes scholarships awarded to Americans, only 12 came from Catholic colleges. (And none of those were women, so consider that when evaluating Wellesley and other women's schools or schools that were early coed schools.)

Surely you jest! I’ll go pull up the real stats and post back

UVA and Notre Dame both had two Rhodes Scholars in 2017. UVA had another in 2019, then both UVA and ND had another in 2020.

Neck and neck.

Try again. UVA: How many Rhodes scholars has UVA had?
University of Virginia has had 53 Rhodes Scholarship winners. That's the most of any college or university in the South, the eighth most of any school overall, and the third most of any non-Ivy League university.Jun 8, 2021". Notre Dame doesn't even produce one every year. UVA usually has two a year. Why don't you google before posting?

Anonymous wrote:UVA no. 8 in the U.S. for producer of Rhodes. And the only public in the top 8. Notre Dame? Hmmm. Not in the top 50. This tally is old by the way. UVA now has 56. https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/universities-by-number-of-rhodes-scholars.html

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Anonymous wrote:Let’s be real here. You’re not gonna find a Michigan grad who praises ND. You have to take the Michigan grad with a grain of salt.

One of my kids turned down ND for UVA in state. I think it made a lot of sense money-wise, but I’m not going to say that UVA is a better school. It isn’t.

Thanks for your opinion.

By what objective measure is UVA better?

ND. Well, for starters UVA sends more Rhodes, Marshall and Fulbrights overseas than ND by far. Ask anyone at Oxford.

Well, of the first 1,500 Rhodes scholarships awarded to Americans, only 12 came from Catholic colleges. (And none of those were women, so consider that when evaluating Wellesley and other women's schools or schools that were early coed schools.)

UVA and Notre Dame both had two Rhodes Scholars in 2017. UVA had another in 2019, then both UVA and ND had another in 2020.

Neck and neck.

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Anonymous wrote:Let’s be real here. You’re not gonna find a Michigan grad who praises ND. You have to take the Michigan grad with a grain of salt.

One of my kids turned down ND for UVA in state. I think it made a lot of sense money-wise, but I’m not going to say that UVA is a better school. It isn’t.

Thanks for your opinion.

By what objective measure is UVA better?

ND. Well, for starters UVA sends more Rhodes, Marshall and Fulbrights overseas than ND by far. Ask anyone at Oxford.

Well, of the first 1,500 Rhodes scholarships awarded to Americans, only 12 came from Catholic colleges. (And none of those were women, so consider that when evaluating Wellesley and other women's schools or schools that were early coed schools.)

Surely you jest! I’ll go pull up the real stats and post back

UVA and Notre Dame both had two Rhodes Scholars in 2017. UVA had another in 2019, then both UVA and ND had another in 2020.

Neck and neck.

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Anonymous wrote:You people watch way too many movies and I’m guessing a lot of you are typical first or second gen strivers living in DMV who’ve clearly never attended an Ivy. They’re not full of rich and pretty old money wasps who can’t wait to invite your unwashed lower rung teen into their high caste lifestyle. And an Ivy BA is not a golden ticket to a plum gig making a boatload of money.

Notre Dame’s campus culture isn’t perfect, but it’s the purest and most pleasant in the top 30 or so, that’s for sure. For a very smart Catholic kid, there isn’t a better place to spend age 18 to 22 at — making friends for life and likely meeting a spouse along the way.

Good for you, isn't for my kid but great for many. I am perplexed at how so many great Universities are maligned on this site.

I didn't see anyone maligning it, just claiming other schools are stronger and it's not everyone's dream. There's not been a single poster that hasn't said Notre Dame is a good school or that has maligned it in any way. It's just some posters think that it is "hating" if they don't bow down to the ND boosters' vision of the extreme greatness of the school. Which is of course amusing--because it plays to a bit of the stereotype of the school-- so it gets egged on.

Except here’s the thing. There may be 15 or so universities in the US that are objectively better at the undergraduate level, but there are hundreds and hundreds and hundreds that aren’t. So I guess it all comes down to what one’s definition of “great” is. I’d argue that a school with so few peers is pretty damned great.

This is where you get weird though--Look, Rice University is above ND in the USNWR. Maybe you don't value that rating, but maybe others do. But you never hear people griping because others are just not praising Rice quite enough, don't think it's great. They might react if someone said it's not a good school, they might extoll its good qualities but they don't think others are "haters" because they don't love it as much as they do. They know it's a good school and don't need others' praise or see maligning where there isn't any. They accept someone might not want to live in Houston TX to go to their school or just not be that into it.
Substitute Rice for: Washington University, Vanderbilt, UCLA, Emory etc.

Sadly the "haters" are typically anti-Catholic bigots. So there is understandably push back. It's pretty damn ugly and I just had to report a bunch of posts to Jeff.

Exactly...here's the thing...the bigots cannot fathom that Catholics can excel and have an elite university where they can not only have amazing academics but a faith filled experience. Sorry that bothers folks so much.

Read through the posts in this thread and show where that's the case--really. The primary religious bigotry of that sort I saw was a ND booster saying that the Ivies are filled with atheists with no morals. One person said something about the Catholic Church's history of sex abuse in response to a ND moralizing, but that's really just pointing to a factual record of a problem in the church.

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Anonymous wrote:You people watch way too many movies and I’m guessing a lot of you are typical first or second gen strivers living in DMV who’ve clearly never attended an Ivy. They’re not full of rich and pretty old money wasps who can’t wait to invite your unwashed lower rung teen into their high caste lifestyle. And an Ivy BA is not a golden ticket to a plum gig making a boatload of money.

Notre Dame’s campus culture isn’t perfect, but it’s the purest and most pleasant in the top 30 or so, that’s for sure. For a very smart Catholic kid, there isn’t a better place to spend age 18 to 22 at — making friends for life and likely meeting a spouse along the way.

Good for you, isn't for my kid but great for many. I am perplexed at how so many great Universities are maligned on this site.

I didn't see anyone maligning it, just claiming other schools are stronger and it's not everyone's dream. There's not been a single poster that hasn't said Notre Dame is a good school or that has maligned it in any way. It's just some posters think that it is "hating" if they don't bow down to the ND boosters' vision of the extreme greatness of the school. Which is of course amusing--because it plays to a bit of the stereotype of the school-- so it gets egged on.

Except here’s the thing. There may be 15 or so universities in the US that are objectively better at the undergraduate level, but there are hundreds and hundreds and hundreds that aren’t. So I guess it all comes down to what one’s definition of “great” is. I’d argue that a school with so few peers is pretty damned great.

This is where you get weird though--Look, Rice University is above ND in the USNWR. Maybe you don't value that rating, but maybe others do. But you never hear people griping because others are just not praising Rice quite enough, don't think it's great. They might react if someone said it's not a good school, they might extoll its good qualities but they don't think others are "haters" because they don't love it as much as they do. They know it's a good school and don't need others' praise or see maligning where there isn't any. They accept someone might not want to live in Houston TX to go to their school or just not be that into it.
Substitute Rice for: Washington University, Vanderbilt, UCLA, Emory etc.

Sadly the "haters" are typically anti-Catholic bigots. So there is understandably push back. It's pretty damn ugly and I just had to report a bunch of posts to Jeff.

Exactly...here's the thing...the bigots cannot fathom that Catholics can excel and have an elite university where they can not only have amazing academics but a faith filled experience. Sorry that bothers folks so much.

Read through the posts in this thread and show where that's the case--really. The primary religious bigotry of that sort I saw was a ND booster saying that the Ivies are filled with atheists with no morals. One person said something about the Catholic Church's history of sex abuse in response to a ND moralizing, but that's really just pointing to a factual record of a problem in the church.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s be real here. You’re not gonna find a Michigan grad who praises ND. You have to take the Michigan grad with a grain of salt.

One of my kids turned down ND for UVA in state. I think it made a lot of sense money-wise, but I’m not going to say that UVA is a better school. It isn’t.

Thanks for your opinion.

By what objective measure is UVA better?

ND. Well, for starters UVA sends more Rhodes, Marshall and Fulbrights overseas than ND by far. Ask anyone at Oxford.

Well, of the first 1,500 Rhodes scholarships awarded to Americans, only 12 came from Catholic colleges. (And none of those were women, so consider that when evaluating Wellesley and other women's schools or schools that were early coed schools.)

Surely you jest! I’ll go pull up the real stats and post back

UVA and Notre Dame both had two Rhodes Scholars in 2017. UVA had another in 2019, then both UVA and ND had another in 2020.

Neck and neck.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s be real here. You’re not gonna find a Michigan grad who praises ND. You have to take the Michigan grad with a grain of salt.

One of my kids turned down ND for UVA in state. I think it made a lot of sense money-wise, but I’m not going to say that UVA is a better school. It isn’t.

Thanks for your opinion.

By what objective measure is UVA better?

ND. Well, for starters UVA sends more Rhodes, Marshall and Fulbrights overseas than ND by far. Ask anyone at Oxford.

Well, of the first 1,500 Rhodes scholarships awarded to Americans, only 12 came from Catholic colleges. (And none of those were women, so consider that when evaluating Wellesley and other women's schools or schools that were early coed schools.)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s be real here. You’re not gonna find a Michigan grad who praises ND. You have to take the Michigan grad with a grain of salt.

One of my kids turned down ND for UVA in state. I think it made a lot of sense money-wise, but I’m not going to say that UVA is a better school. It isn’t.

Thanks for your opinion.

By what objective measure is UVA better?

ND. Well, for starters UVA sends more Rhodes, Marshall and Fulbrights overseas than ND by far. Ask anyone at Oxford.

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Anonymous wrote:Other than Stanford, ND offers the best combination of top-notch academics, all around excellence in athletics (not just football) and alumni networking. It also has one of the largest endowments in the country, more than half the Ivies and nearly 10 times Georgetown’s. These are facts, not hyperbole.

Duke, Vandy, and Michigan all disagree (and the Stanford, Vandy, and Michigan alumni and parents aren't even predominantly insufferable).

Plus Cal, Texas, UCLA, USC, UNC....

Um, Stanford, the Ivy's (completely insignificant and worthless in NCAA Athletics)" and the Service Academy's are the only schools that don't compromise for athletics. If any of you think the rest of those schools don't have mouth breathers on the scholarship roster you're stupid.

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Anonymous wrote:You people watch way too many movies and I’m guessing a lot of you are typical first or second gen strivers living in DMV who’ve clearly never attended an Ivy. They’re not full of rich and pretty old money wasps who can’t wait to invite your unwashed lower rung teen into their high caste lifestyle. And an Ivy BA is not a golden ticket to a plum gig making a boatload of money.

Notre Dame’s campus culture isn’t perfect, but it’s the purest and most pleasant in the top 30 or so, that’s for sure. For a very smart Catholic kid, there isn’t a better place to spend age 18 to 22 at — making friends for life and likely meeting a spouse along the way.

Good for you, isn't for my kid but great for many. I am perplexed at how so many great Universities are maligned on this site.

I didn't see anyone maligning it, just claiming other schools are stronger and it's not everyone's dream. There's not been a single poster that hasn't said Notre Dame is a good school or that has maligned it in any way. It's just some posters think that it is "hating" if they don't bow down to the ND boosters' vision of the extreme greatness of the school. Which is of course amusing--because it plays to a bit of the stereotype of the school-- so it gets egged on.

Except here’s the thing. There may be 15 or so universities in the US that are objectively better at the undergraduate level, but there are hundreds and hundreds and hundreds that aren’t. So I guess it all comes down to what one’s definition of “great” is. I’d argue that a school with so few peers is pretty damned great.

This is where you get weird though--Look, Rice University is above ND in the USNWR. Maybe you don't value that rating, but maybe others do. But you never hear people griping because others are just not praising Rice quite enough, don't think it's great. They might react if someone said it's not a good school, they might extoll its good qualities but they don't think others are "haters" because they don't love it as much as they do. They know it's a good school and don't need others' praise or see maligning where there isn't any. They accept someone might not want to live in Houston TX to go to their school or just not be that into it.
Substitute Rice for: Washington University, Vanderbilt, UCLA, Emory etc.

LOL. One of my best friends went to Rice, and she complains constantly that it doesn't get the respect that it deserves. I think it IS a "great" school.

On this thread we're talking about Notre Dame because, well, it's a Notre Dame thread. What's more odd, really -- that ND boosters are jumping on a thread asking for some light to be shed on the school's admissions standards, or that ND bashers who purport to have no interest in hell in attending the school are piping in?

I'll wait . . .

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You people watch way too many movies and I’m guessing a lot of you are typical first or second gen strivers living in DMV who’ve clearly never attended an Ivy. They’re not full of rich and pretty old money wasps who can’t wait to invite your unwashed lower rung teen into their high caste lifestyle. And an Ivy BA is not a golden ticket to a plum gig making a boatload of money.

Notre Dame’s campus culture isn’t perfect, but it’s the purest and most pleasant in the top 30 or so, that’s for sure. For a very smart Catholic kid, there isn’t a better place to spend age 18 to 22 at — making friends for life and likely meeting a spouse along the way.

Good for you, isn't for my kid but great for many. I am perplexed at how so many great Universities are maligned on this site.

I didn't see anyone maligning it, just claiming other schools are stronger and it's not everyone's dream. There's not been a single poster that hasn't said Notre Dame is a good school or that has maligned it in any way. It's just some posters think that it is "hating" if they don't bow down to the ND boosters' vision of the extreme greatness of the school. Which is of course amusing--because it plays to a bit of the stereotype of the school-- so it gets egged on.

Except here’s the thing. There may be 15 or so universities in the US that are objectively better at the undergraduate level, but there are hundreds and hundreds and hundreds that aren’t. So I guess it all comes down to what one’s definition of “great” is. I’d argue that a school with so few peers is pretty damned great.

This is where you get weird though--Look, Rice University is above ND in the USNWR. Maybe you don't value that rating, but maybe others do. But you never hear people griping because others are just not praising Rice quite enough, don't think it's great. They might react if someone said it's not a good school, they might extoll its good qualities but they don't think others are "haters" because they don't love it as much as they do. They know it's a good school and don't need others' praise or see maligning where there isn't any. They accept someone might not want to live in Houston TX to go to their school or just not be that into it.
Substitute Rice for: Washington University, Vanderbilt, UCLA, Emory etc.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You people watch way too many movies and I’m guessing a lot of you are typical first or second gen strivers living in DMV who’ve clearly never attended an Ivy. They’re not full of rich and pretty old money wasps who can’t wait to invite your unwashed lower rung teen into their high caste lifestyle. And an Ivy BA is not a golden ticket to a plum gig making a boatload of money.

Notre Dame’s campus culture isn’t perfect, but it’s the purest and most pleasant in the top 30 or so, that’s for sure. For a very smart Catholic kid, there isn’t a better place to spend age 18 to 22 at — making friends for life and likely meeting a spouse along the way.

Good for you, isn't for my kid but great for many. I am perplexed at how so many great Universities are maligned on this site.

I didn't see anyone maligning it, just claiming other schools are stronger and it's not everyone's dream. There's not been a single poster that hasn't said Notre Dame is a good school or that has maligned it in any way. It's just some posters think that it is "hating" if they don't bow down to the ND boosters' vision of the extreme greatness of the school. Which is of course amusing--because it plays to a bit of the stereotype of the school-- so it gets egged on.

Except here’s the thing. There may be 15 or so universities in the US that are objectively better at the undergraduate level, but there are hundreds and hundreds and hundreds that aren’t. So I guess it all comes down to what one’s definition of “great” is. I’d argue that a school with so few peers is pretty damned great.

This is where you get weird though--Look, Rice University is above ND in the USNWR. Maybe you don't value that rating, but maybe others do. But you never hear people griping because others are just not praising Rice quite enough, don't think it's great. They might react if someone said it's not a good school, they might extoll its good qualities but they don't think others are "haters" because they don't love it as much as they do. They know it's a good school and don't need others' praise or see maligning where there isn't any. They accept someone might not want to live in Houston TX to go to their school or just not be that into it.
Substitute Rice for: Washington University, Vanderbilt, UCLA, Emory etc.

Sadly the "haters" are typically anti-Catholic bigots. So there is understandably push back. It's pretty damn ugly and I just had to report a bunch of posts to Jeff.

Exactly...here's the thing...the bigots cannot fathom that Catholics can excel and have an elite university where they can not only have amazing academics but a faith filled experience. Sorry that bothers folks so much.