Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think it's all socialization. My parents were very co-equal in terms of parenting and domestic tasks, and my dad helps to care for my mom's mother, who is in assisted living near them. My brother lives in the same city as my parents and sees them a few times a year. I live across the country so I don't see them often either, but normally we go out for 9 or 10 days once a year and my parents come visit us 2-3 times for a week each, so I spend a lot more time with them than my brother does. He just doesn't make it a priority.

I agree - many parents can tell you raise their children with the same values, guidelines, obligations etc and they still turn out so differently ….

I raised our DS to help with chores and cook - actually told him that I did not want his future wife to blame me for raising a lazy sexist husband … I required much lower levels of chores and domestic work from DD as she had chronic illness … still DD shows much more interest in my well being … Love them both to bits but even without enforcing traditional gender roles, my DD is much more sensitive to checking on how I am doing.

It is very hard to undo thousands of years of hard wiring …

You treated your children differently and now you suffer the consequences - poster with chronic, autoimmune disability.

Ok glad you had your inappropriate Gotcha moment … your comment makes no sense/ not logical in terms of this thread. The point was DD was not socialized to take on traditional gender roles - the opposite. She is still more caring. I am agreeing with PP that the gender gap is not just socialization.

My DIL is thrilled with DS who does chores and cooks. Did not treat children differently by choice but by medical advice.

Recovering from your CFS may be better served by doing yoga or relaxation exercises than taking cheap shots/ unprovoked attacks online …

You just don't get it - your DS is obviously capable of being a great caretaker, hence why your DIL is happy. He decided not to be with you because he's probably resentful.

Wtf? My DS is obviously capable of being a great caretaker and I have always encouraged him to do so. He is not with me because he is a grown man. I would have failed miserably if he was living in our basement. Your logic skills are impaired.You are going off an irrelevant mean-spirited and pointless tangent.

The point of the argument is biology versus socialization. My son was socialized to be caring and he is. But my DD is more naturally caring. This is just my personal example to lend support to earlier PPs who contended that the gender gap is not all socialization or biological but a combination of both. How much is biology and how much is socialization, no one knows. Scientists have been arguing over this for decades.

You really need to focus on getting your health back on track. Making snide attacks that serve no purpose is not good for your health.

It's funny how you bring up my health as your only very weak argument and how you backtrack from complaining about your son showing less interest in your well-being. I bet you used your daughter's illness, which I assume it's mental based on your comments about mine, as an excuse to treat your children differently. There is no such thing as "naturally more caring", it's all upbringing. BTW, I'm 100% in remission due to medication, so yoga and putting up with gender stereotyping are not part of the treatment. As someone who will take care of my (loving, fair, and involved) parents together with my sibling, I suggest calling your son and apologizing for putting a larger burden on him growing up. Ask him how to make things better now. Accept that you neglected him in caring for your special needs child and his detachment is most likely based on that and not some biological BS.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/band-brothers-and-sisters/201406/siblings-children-disabilities
https://consumer.healthday.com/mental-health-information-25/behavior-health-news-56/siblings-of-disabled-kids-may-show-emotional-effects-678727.html
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-favorite-child/201002/are-children-special-needs-favored

John Hopkins researchers might say yes, while scientists from universities of Melbourne, Exeter and Tel Aviv would argue gender behavior differences can all be explained by socialization. There is no consensus in either the scientific community or general public.


https://sites.psu.edu/evolutionofhumansexuality/2014/04/07/gender-identity-nature-vs-nurture/

Research at the Johns Hopkins Children Center has shown that gender identity is almost entirely based on nature and is almost exclusively predetermined before the birth of the baby. Two studies conducted by William Reiner, a child and adolescent psychiatrist and urologist, have confirmed that the amount of exposure to male hormones and androgens in utero almost exclusively decides whether the child identifies as masculine or feminine.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/236579433_Nature_vs_Nurture_and_the_Gender_Divide_What_really_determines_our_gender_identity

In this study a number of issues are addressed regarding the origin of gender and how it influences the life of an individual. The origin was explained using the three main theories proposed; genetics, natural selection and a person's environment. Arguments were presented in support of and against each theory accompanied by case studies, further explaining the advantages and disadvantages of accepted and controversial gender assignments. No conclusive decision was expected in this study, since there is not decisive proof that there is any one reason for gender determination in humans. Introduction:

New research has challenged the idea that ‘gender specific behaviours’—or the tendency for men to be masculine and women to be feminine—are due to our genetics. The study Sex-Linked Behaviour: Evolution, Stability, and Variability, conducted by Cordelia Fine from the University of Melbourne, John Dupré from the University of Exeter, and Daphna Joel from Tel-Aviv University, argues that our social environment allows for the transfer of some gender-specific behaviour traits between generations. 

https://www.sbs.com.au/topics/pride/agenda/article/2017/09/08/nature-vs-nurture-when-it-comes-gendered-behaviour-its-more-complex-we-thought

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2017/12/05/on-gender-differences-no-consensus-on-nature-vs-nurture/

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think it's all socialization. My parents were very co-equal in terms of parenting and domestic tasks, and my dad helps to care for my mom's mother, who is in assisted living near them. My brother lives in the same city as my parents and sees them a few times a year. I live across the country so I don't see them often either, but normally we go out for 9 or 10 days once a year and my parents come visit us 2-3 times for a week each, so I spend a lot more time with them than my brother does. He just doesn't make it a priority.

I agree - many parents can tell you raise their children with the same values, guidelines, obligations etc and they still turn out so differently ….

I raised our DS to help with chores and cook - actually told him that I did not want his future wife to blame me for raising a lazy sexist husband … I required much lower levels of chores and domestic work from DD as she had chronic illness … still DD shows much more interest in my well being … Love them both to bits but even without enforcing traditional gender roles, my DD is much more sensitive to checking on how I am doing.

It is very hard to undo thousands of years of hard wiring …

You treated your children differently and now you suffer the consequences - poster with chronic, autoimmune disability.

Ok glad you had your inappropriate Gotcha moment … your comment makes no sense/ not logical in terms of this thread. The point was DD was not socialized to take on traditional gender roles - the opposite. She is still more caring. I am agreeing with PP that the gender gap is not just socialization.

My DIL is thrilled with DS who does chores and cooks. Did not treat children differently by choice but by medical advice.

Recovering from your CFS may be better served by doing yoga or relaxation exercises than taking cheap shots/ unprovoked attacks online …

You just don't get it - your DS is obviously capable of being a great caretaker, hence why your DIL is happy. He decided not to be with you because he's probably resentful.

Wtf? My DS is obviously capable of being a great caretaker and I have always encouraged him to do so. He is not with me because he is a grown man. I would have failed miserably if he was living in our basement. Your logic skills are impaired.You are going off an irrelevant mean-spirited and pointless tangent.

The point of the argument is biology versus socialization. My son was socialized to be caring and he is. But my DD is more naturally caring. This is just my personal example to lend support to earlier PPs who contended that the gender gap is not all socialization or biological but a combination of both. How much is biology and how much is socialization, no one knows. Scientists have been arguing over this for decades.

You really need to focus on getting your health back on track. Making snide attacks that serve no purpose is not good for your health.

Anonymous wrote:Gosh, what do the couples or singles do who never had children?!?

It's hard. My single childless friend is saving $$$$$ for long-term care, especially because alzheimer's runs in her family. In my birth country, single elderly get care from other family members in exchange for assets in the will, mostly housing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think it's all socialization. My parents were very co-equal in terms of parenting and domestic tasks, and my dad helps to care for my mom's mother, who is in assisted living near them. My brother lives in the same city as my parents and sees them a few times a year. I live across the country so I don't see them often either, but normally we go out for 9 or 10 days once a year and my parents come visit us 2-3 times for a week each, so I spend a lot more time with them than my brother does. He just doesn't make it a priority.

I agree - many parents can tell you raise their children with the same values, guidelines, obligations etc and they still turn out so differently ….

I raised our DS to help with chores and cook - actually told him that I did not want his future wife to blame me for raising a lazy sexist husband … I required much lower levels of chores and domestic work from DD as she had chronic illness … still DD shows much more interest in my well being … Love them both to bits but even without enforcing traditional gender roles, my DD is much more sensitive to checking on how I am doing.

It is very hard to undo thousands of years of hard wiring …

You treated your children differently and now you suffer the consequences - poster with chronic, autoimmune disability.

Ok glad you had your inappropriate Gotcha moment … your comment makes no sense/ not logical in terms of this thread. The point was DD was not socialized to take on traditional gender roles - the opposite. She is still more caring. I am agreeing with PP that the gender gap is not just socialization.

My DIL is thrilled with DS who does chores and cooks. Did not treat children differently by choice but by medical advice.

Recovering from your CFS may be better served by doing yoga or relaxation exercises than taking cheap shots/ unprovoked attacks online …

You just don't get it - your DS is obviously capable of being a great caretaker, hence why your DIL is happy. He decided not to be with you because he's probably resentful.

Gosh, what do the couples or singles do who never had children?!?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think it's all socialization. My parents were very co-equal in terms of parenting and domestic tasks, and my dad helps to care for my mom's mother, who is in assisted living near them. My brother lives in the same city as my parents and sees them a few times a year. I live across the country so I don't see them often either, but normally we go out for 9 or 10 days once a year and my parents come visit us 2-3 times for a week each, so I spend a lot more time with them than my brother does. He just doesn't make it a priority.

I agree - many parents can tell you raise their children with the same values, guidelines, obligations etc and they still turn out so differently ….

I raised our DS to help with chores and cook - actually told him that I did not want his future wife to blame me for raising a lazy sexist husband … I required much lower levels of chores and domestic work from DD as she had chronic illness … still DD shows much more interest in my well being … Love them both to bits but even without enforcing traditional gender roles, my DD is much more sensitive to checking on how I am doing.

It is very hard to undo thousands of years of hard wiring …

You treated your children differently and now you suffer the consequences - poster with chronic, autoimmune disability.

Ok glad you had your inappropriate Gotcha moment … your comment makes no sense/ not logical in terms of this thread. The point was DD was not socialized to take on traditional gender roles - the opposite. She is still more caring. I am agreeing with PP that the gender gap is not just socialization.

My DIL is thrilled with DS who does chores and cooks. Did not treat children differently by choice but by medical advice.

Recovering from your CFS may be better served by doing yoga or relaxation exercises than taking cheap shots/ unprovoked attacks online …

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think it's all socialization. My parents were very co-equal in terms of parenting and domestic tasks, and my dad helps to care for my mom's mother, who is in assisted living near them. My brother lives in the same city as my parents and sees them a few times a year. I live across the country so I don't see them often either, but normally we go out for 9 or 10 days once a year and my parents come visit us 2-3 times for a week each, so I spend a lot more time with them than my brother does. He just doesn't make it a priority.

I agree - many parents can tell you raise their children with the same values, guidelines, obligations etc and they still turn out so differently ….

I raised our DS to help with chores and cook - actually told him that I did not want his future wife to blame me for raising a lazy sexist husband … I required much lower levels of chores and domestic work from DD as she had chronic illness … still DD shows much more interest in my well being … Love them both to bits but even without enforcing traditional gender roles, my DD is much more sensitive to checking on how I am doing.

It is very hard to undo thousands of years of hard wiring …

You treated your children differently and now you suffer the consequences - poster with chronic, autoimmune disability.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was actually just talking about this with a friend. We've witnessed the same dynamic in so many families.

My guess is that thousands upon thousands of years of entitlement has ingrained in male DNA to make them just generally kind of useless.

Adding to this, we continue the cycle of not caring for others by letting boys act like the world revolves around them. Every time I take my toddler to the playground, some rude, wild boy would knock her down if I wasn't blocking her. Never experienced that with girls - they're having fun but have some awareness of other people.

Many girls act this way. My sister is a cold fish. My son is sweet and loving. If your boys act that way, that's on you. You seem very gender bias.

It's *biased*.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think it's all socialization. My parents were very co-equal in terms of parenting and domestic tasks, and my dad helps to care for my mom's mother, who is in assisted living near them. My brother lives in the same city as my parents and sees them a few times a year. I live across the country so I don't see them often either, but normally we go out for 9 or 10 days once a year and my parents come visit us 2-3 times for a week each, so I spend a lot more time with them than my brother does. He just doesn't make it a priority.

I agree - many parents can tell you raise their children with the same values, guidelines, obligations etc and they still turn out so differently ….

I raised our DS to help with chores and cook - actually told him that I did not want his future wife to blame me for raising a lazy sexist husband … I required much lower levels of chores and domestic work from DD as she had chronic illness … still DD shows much more interest in my well being … Love them both to bits but even without enforcing traditional gender roles, my DD is much more sensitive to checking on how I am doing.

It is very hard to undo thousands of years of hard wiring …

Anonymous wrote:Your mom raised them this way. You reap what you sow. My brother is the same way.

You are getting your butt kicked, for good reason.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was actually just talking about this with a friend. We've witnessed the same dynamic in so many families.

My guess is that thousands upon thousands of years of entitlement has ingrained in male DNA to make them just generally kind of useless.

Adding to this, we continue the cycle of not caring for others by letting boys act like the world revolves around them. Every time I take my toddler to the playground, some rude, wild boy would knock her down if I wasn't blocking her. Never experienced that with girls - they're having fun but have some awareness of other people.

Many girls act this way. My sister is a cold fish. My son is sweet and loving. If your boys act that way, that's on you. You seem very gender bias.

Anonymous wrote:I read that elderly people with all sons are likely to move into assisted living much sooner than those with daughters, because the sons don’t help.

Nope, we took care of my MIL and son's/husband's mom. My sister was tasked/agreed to do all the care/POA and my Dad went into assisted living and she does nothing. I helped a few times and it caused a fight and I was done. Let them figure it out.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"A daughter once born is a daughter for life. A son is a son until he takes a wife."

--old proverb

What ignorant, misogynistic crap!

Every cliched proverb has a grain of truth.

The gender gap is real.

Biological and social Gender differences are both real.

The question is how to reduce the inordinate burden on women to provide unpaid family care?

Such bull. Because women bear children they were left to care for them. That's it. From that fact the basic beliefs began about women and their place.

Yeah and why did that child care burden happen in every society on earth over thousands of years ? Biological constraints. The waters are way murkier and more complex than you are giving credit for.

Like for thousands of years we lived in patriarchy? Now you go to northern Europe and there is less of this crap.

I read that elderly people with all sons are likely to move into assisted living much sooner than those with daughters, because the sons don’t help.