Anonymous
Post 11/28/2021 18:16     Subject: Where are the referees?
Just noticed that the classless Duke timekeeper restarted the clock when the player went down and tried to run some extra time off the clock. Wondering if this clueless referee crew noticed that.
Anonymous
Post 11/28/2021 15:44     Subject: Re:Where are the referees?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Absolutely disgraceful call on the handball PK in the Duke - Wake Forest Acc Tourney game. Even the commentators were gobsmacked.

If the ACC can’t find competent refs, how is ECNL supposed to?


Yawn. It’s not the refs fault. It was a 2-1 game and Duke made many mistakes but blame the ref. it’s loser talk.


I’m talking about the first goal. Did you see it?


Duke is pretty much a disgrace anyway. Classless:
But so typical Dukie behavior
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=58SUIjjXcG0
Anonymous
Post 11/27/2021 17:58     Subject: Re:Where are the referees?
Anonymous wrote:I think just about everyone is in agreement that we parents don't make it easy for the refs. With that said, is it worse now than pre-Covid? After so many pages of responses, do we have any ideas besides the following:

1. There are just more games now than a few years ago.
2. After self reflection during Covid, a lot of referees just decided it wasn't worth their time anymore (I think this includes parents and coaches being abusive).
3. Referees don't want the referee pay to mess with their unemployment benefits.

Anything else?



1. There are not more games, just more games in different competitions with different assignors leading to inefficiency in assigning.

2. Yes, after a season off, many mid experienced refs found it easier to walk away.

3. I have not met a single ref who cited unemployment

So why are there so many games going uncovered? It’s a combination of factors with a) parent and coach behavior being a major factor, b) lack of training and support for referees being another coupled, c) changes in the ref certification system and changes in local leagues.

A) Parents and coaches are the top issue cited by young refs for not renewing. And for experienced refs, if you go a season without games (covid), you realize that there are fun activities you can do where people don’t yell at you. Few people get into reffing for money. We do it because we love the game or as kids see it as an easy way to make money doing something we like and that helps us become better players and students of the game. Abusive parents and coaches are a major negative force that weighs against the joy we get from the game.

I will come back to B, but skipping to C) Refs are certified by US soccer through state associations. Over the past 5 years much of the initial training has shifted to online. Then 2 years ago US Soccer revamped online registration and added background checks and about 3 hours worth of annual training on safe sport (congressionally mandated) and player health. That had a major impact in the number of certified refs because a lot of refs who worked a minimal number of games dropped out because the registration / certification process became a much bigger hassle. Followed by COVID impact on classes / recruitment for new refs and we are down significant numbers.

Locally, the shift away from NCSL/Wags has had an impact b/c NCSL/WAGS generally required each team to provide at least 1 referee to their club for games. Many of these were so called STARS refs who had basic instruction and were certified/approved for running lines. Fewer ncsl/wags teams means fewer referees. CCL doesn’t have this requirement, which was helpful in getting parents involved in reffing. Higher level competition doesn’t require it either because they think that by just paying more they will get bettter refs, but what’s really happened is that the pipeline has been shutdown.

And back to B). Training and mentoring are key to helping teenage referees and inexperienced adults become competent referees. The state associations traditionally worked with leagues and assignors to train and provide mentoring for young refs. As US Club Soccer and their various “club centric” leagues have grown, the USYSA side of things has seen fewer resources available for training refs. Sure, some assignors will work with clubs to create additional training and mentoring opportunities for refs, but the traditional pathways have gone away with the rise of US Club Soccer.

Also, in the Northern VA / DC market, there are few soccer complexes with multiple fields allowing allowing for scaled ref mentoring and support. I grew up outside of DC where I could play at 10 AM then spend the rest of the day at the same location working u10/12 games and u/14/16/19 matches all under the watchful eye of my clubs senior referees. If I had a problematic parent or coach, someone else usually took care of it before it became an issue. In the DC area outside of the soccerplex there are few if any places where you can have a club run a full days worth of games across all ages and skill levels. If I am working u/19 boys I can’t then go and easily mentor a 14 year old working u12 games because those games are not at the same place I am at.

Finally, pay is important, but only on the margins. If I have already worked 3 games, it’s going to take a higher game fee to motivate me to work that 4th or 5th game of the day and honestly, you really don’t want any ref who is on his 4th or 5th game. He is tired and bored. Better to put money and money effort into recruitment, training and support for our younger and newer referees.


Anonymous
Post 11/09/2021 10:29     Subject: Where are the referees?
And apparently it's not just a problem here:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/have-you-witnessed-abuse-of-referees-at-junior-soccer-games-1.4723541
Anonymous
Post 11/08/2021 04:46     Subject: Re:Where are the referees?
RantingSoccerDad wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My kid is centering his first game tomorrow. Please be supportive. : )


How'd it go?


RSD: who is the assignor for Vienna games? Thanks
Anonymous
Post 11/07/2021 16:17     Subject: Where are the referees?
RantingSoccerDad wrote:People are always going to hate on Duke, no matter how big the ref pool is.


The total tool factor is probably the material contributing factor there, not the size of the ref pool. I know you are smart enough to understand that, but you also have to carry the toll of a Duke education on your emotional IQ and self-awareness.
Anonymous
Post 11/07/2021 15:43     Subject: Re:Where are the referees?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Absolutely disgraceful call on the handball PK in the Duke - Wake Forest Acc Tourney game. Even the commentators were gobsmacked.

If the ACC can’t find competent refs, how is ECNL supposed to?


Yawn. It’s not the refs fault. It was a 2-1 game and Duke made many mistakes but blame the ref. it’s loser talk.


I’m talking about the first goal. Did you see it?
Anonymous
Post 11/07/2021 15:25     Subject: Where are the referees?
We are also in ncsl and did not have a ref today but we are not on that list. I love how people on dcum say if it didn't happen to them, it didn't and couldn't happen. Luckily a coach reffed and did a good job.
Anonymous
Post 11/07/2021 15:04     Subject: Re:Where are the referees?
Anonymous wrote:Absolutely disgraceful call on the handball PK in the Duke - Wake Forest Acc Tourney game. Even the commentators were gobsmacked.

If the ACC can’t find competent refs, how is ECNL supposed to?


Yawn. It’s not the refs fault. It was a 2-1 game and Duke made many mistakes but blame the ref. it’s loser talk.
Anonymous
Post 11/07/2021 14:47     Subject: Re:Where are the referees?
Absolutely disgraceful call on the handball PK in the Duke - Wake Forest Acc Tourney game. Even the commentators were gobsmacked.

If the ACC can’t find competent refs, how is ECNL supposed to?
Anonymous
Post 11/07/2021 09:29     Subject: Where are the referees?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:We had a whole rec season and tournament games all day and always had referees, including sideline flag kids for our older ages. Not sure why travel with all its $$$$ can't find referees.


The complaints about the lack of refs are mostly B/S. I have several kids who play travel and in all these years, we maybe had one game when the refs did not show up.


Totally agree. Ten years of travel soccer with multiple kids and we've had only one game without refs and that was due to a field change issue.


Here is the morning email for games for TODAY needing 1 or more refs as of 7:30 this morning And this is just from one of the local assignors. This assignor happens to assign all games for NCSL, some EDP games, and some other games but just take a look at all the NCSL games needing center refs. Tell me if it's BS or not.

NCSL Games
19375 9:00am NG19D3 ALI KRIEGER SPTS CPX #8 AR
21801 11:00am NG09DH BEN BRENMAN PARK - #1B C
21097 9:30am NB09DP " " C
15443 2:00pm NB15D4 BRENTWOOD HAMILTON - SOCCER (11V11) AR
4157 2:00pm VSA-SFL-U14 CATHARPIN PARK 1 C,AR
15485 10:00am NG15D4 FALLS CHURCH HS - STADIUM C OR AR
15441 8:00am NB15D4 " " AR
16140 8:00am NB16D1 FRANCONIA PARK #4 C,AR
10355 11:00am NB10DO GREEN ACRES CENTER #1 C
16191 5:00pm NG16D1 GREENBRIER PK UPPER (YKTN HS STAD.) AR
14294 2:00pm NG14D2 HAY HS - PRACTICE TURF AR
11349 9:30am NB11DE HOOES ROAD PARK #3 C
17142 3:00pm NB17D1 HOWISON PARK #2 AR
16435 1:30pm NB16D4 JUSTICE HS - STADIUM C
21285 9:00am NB09DS KINCHELOE #1 C
13243 10:30am NB13D2 KINCHELOE #2 C,AR,AR
15343 12:00pm NB15D3 " " C,AR,AR
13190 10:00am NG13D1 LAKE BRADDOCK SEC SCH - STADIUM AR
19144 8:30am NB19D1 LAKE FAIRFAX #4 AR
16242 11:00am NB16D2 LAKE RIDGE MS - FB/SOCCER AR
19241 9:00am NB19D2 " " AR,AR
14533 9:00am NB14D5 LEE DISTRICT PARK C,AR,AR
17234 10:00am NB17D2 LINWAY TERRACE PARK #1 C OR AR
17192 8:00am NG17D1 " " AR
15241 3:30pm NB15D2 LONG BRIDGE PARK - #4 C,AR
10348 12:00pm NB10DO LONG BRIDGE PARK - #4A C
16240 11:00am NB16D2 LONG PARK #5 (TURF) AR
10881 2:00pm NG10DF LONG PARK #6A (TURF) C
11741 5:00pm NG11DL " " C
14344 1:00pm NB14D3 MOUNT VERNON HS - RF #1 AR
15243 9:30am NB15D2 " " C,AR OR AR,AR
17140 8:00am NB17D1 MOUNT VERNON HS - STADIUM AR
21805 1:00pm NG09DH NIKE PARK #7A C
19376 10:00am NG19D3 OAKTON HS - STADIUM AR
17233 8:00am NB17D2 PATRIOT PARK (FAIRFAX) #1 (FULL) AR,AR
11844 8:00am NG11DK RFK #3 C
11978 9:30am NG11DJ " " C
14189 2:00pm NG14D1 ROCK RIDGE HS - TURF #2 AR,AR
14535 11:00am NB14D5 ROLLING VALLEY WEST PARK #2 AR
10350 8:00am NB10DO SIMPSON PARK SOCCER - #1A C
10515 9:30am NB10DX " " C
19192 10:00am NG19D1 SIMPSON PARK SOCCER - #2 AR
14442 12:00pm NB14D4 " " AR,AR
16243 8:00am NB16D2 " " AR
12242 11:00am NB12D2 SOUTH COUNTY MS - #2B (SS) C
16344 12:00pm NB16D3 SOUTH RUN PARK #6 AR
15244 4:00pm NB15D2 " " AR
15142 4:00pm NB15D1 SPRING HILL REC CTR - #5 C,AR
19140 12:00pm NB19D1 THOMAS JEFF HS - PRACT TURF AR,AR
14242 11:00am NB14D2 TUSCARORA HS - STADIUM (TURF) AR
15293 12:30pm NG15D2 " " AR
16143 2:30pm NB16D1 " " AR
16432 9:00am NB16D4 " " AR,AR
14443 9:00am NB14D4 UNITY REED HS #7 C,AR,AR
11551 3:00pm NB11DT VA REVOLUTION SPORTSPLEX #3A C
16241 10:00am NB16D2 WILLIAMSBURG MS #1 AR
99703 8:00am NB17D2 WILLIAMSBURG MS #1 AR,AR
19243 10:00am NB19D2 WITTER COMPLEX #1 C,AR OR AR,AR
16343 12:00pm NB16D3 " " AR,AR
15240 2:00pm NB15D2 " " AR
17141 4:00pm NB17D1 " " AR
16192 8:00am NG16D1 " " AR,AR
13441 2:00pm NB13D4 WITTER COMPLEX #2 AR
13192 8:00am NG13D1 WT WOODSON HS - WEST (TURF - FULL) AR
13143 9:30am NB13D1 " " AR,AR

EDP GAMES
WCU-9466 1:30pm EDP - U17B RANDALL REC CENTER AR
WCU-14284 9:15am EDP - U18G RFK #1 AR
WCU-11614 1:30pm EDP - U19B RIDGE ROAD REC CENTER AR
WCU-530 2:00pm EDP - U16G RIGGS LASALLE COMM CTR AR,AR

MANASSAS GAME

MSC-CCL101 10:15am MSC-CCL-U15G HELLWIG PARK #6 C,AR,AR

WARRENTON GAMES

91334 10:00am CCL-U14B ATHEY - COUNTRY CHEV AR,AR
91305 12:00pm CCL-U13G " " AR
91422 2:00pm CCL-U16G " " AR,AR
6437 4:00pm SFL-U16G " " AR,AR
1217 10:30am SFL-U11G ATHEY - TEPEYAC TITLE AR,AR
12347 4:30pm SFL-U12B " " C,AR,AR
NEW37 3:30pm PM-REC-U10 ATHEY - UNION BANK #1 C
NEW30 12:45pm PM-REC-U10B ATHEY - UNION BANK #2 C
NEW36 3:00pm PM-REC-U10 " " C
NEW38 3:45pm PM-REC-U10 " " C
16607 10:00am SFL-U16B ATHEY HIGHLAND AR
19547 12:00pm SFL-U19B " " AR,AR
13467 2:15pm SFL-U13B " " C,AR,AR


Crap. My kids game won’t have an official! JK.
Anonymous
Post 11/07/2021 08:35     Subject: Where are the referees?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:We had a whole rec season and tournament games all day and always had referees, including sideline flag kids for our older ages. Not sure why travel with all its $$$$ can't find referees.


The complaints about the lack of refs are mostly B/S. I have several kids who play travel and in all these years, we maybe had one game when the refs did not show up.


Totally agree. Ten years of travel soccer with multiple kids and we've had only one game without refs and that was due to a field change issue.


Here is the morning email for games for TODAY needing 1 or more refs as of 7:30 this morning And this is just from one of the local assignors. This assignor happens to assign all games for NCSL, some EDP games, and some other games but just take a look at all the NCSL games needing center refs. Tell me if it's BS or not.

NCSL Games
19375 9:00am NG19D3 ALI KRIEGER SPTS CPX #8 AR
21801 11:00am NG09DH BEN BRENMAN PARK - #1B C
21097 9:30am NB09DP " " C
15443 2:00pm NB15D4 BRENTWOOD HAMILTON - SOCCER (11V11) AR
4157 2:00pm VSA-SFL-U14 CATHARPIN PARK 1 C,AR
15485 10:00am NG15D4 FALLS CHURCH HS - STADIUM C OR AR
15441 8:00am NB15D4 " " AR
16140 8:00am NB16D1 FRANCONIA PARK #4 C,AR
10355 11:00am NB10DO GREEN ACRES CENTER #1 C
16191 5:00pm NG16D1 GREENBRIER PK UPPER (YKTN HS STAD.) AR
14294 2:00pm NG14D2 HAY HS - PRACTICE TURF AR
11349 9:30am NB11DE HOOES ROAD PARK #3 C
17142 3:00pm NB17D1 HOWISON PARK #2 AR
16435 1:30pm NB16D4 JUSTICE HS - STADIUM C
21285 9:00am NB09DS KINCHELOE #1 C
13243 10:30am NB13D2 KINCHELOE #2 C,AR,AR
15343 12:00pm NB15D3 " " C,AR,AR
13190 10:00am NG13D1 LAKE BRADDOCK SEC SCH - STADIUM AR
19144 8:30am NB19D1 LAKE FAIRFAX #4 AR
16242 11:00am NB16D2 LAKE RIDGE MS - FB/SOCCER AR
19241 9:00am NB19D2 " " AR,AR
14533 9:00am NB14D5 LEE DISTRICT PARK C,AR,AR
17234 10:00am NB17D2 LINWAY TERRACE PARK #1 C OR AR
17192 8:00am NG17D1 " " AR
15241 3:30pm NB15D2 LONG BRIDGE PARK - #4 C,AR
10348 12:00pm NB10DO LONG BRIDGE PARK - #4A C
16240 11:00am NB16D2 LONG PARK #5 (TURF) AR
10881 2:00pm NG10DF LONG PARK #6A (TURF) C
11741 5:00pm NG11DL " " C
14344 1:00pm NB14D3 MOUNT VERNON HS - RF #1 AR
15243 9:30am NB15D2 " " C,AR OR AR,AR
17140 8:00am NB17D1 MOUNT VERNON HS - STADIUM AR
21805 1:00pm NG09DH NIKE PARK #7A C
19376 10:00am NG19D3 OAKTON HS - STADIUM AR
17233 8:00am NB17D2 PATRIOT PARK (FAIRFAX) #1 (FULL) AR,AR
11844 8:00am NG11DK RFK #3 C
11978 9:30am NG11DJ " " C
14189 2:00pm NG14D1 ROCK RIDGE HS - TURF #2 AR,AR
14535 11:00am NB14D5 ROLLING VALLEY WEST PARK #2 AR
10350 8:00am NB10DO SIMPSON PARK SOCCER - #1A C
10515 9:30am NB10DX " " C
19192 10:00am NG19D1 SIMPSON PARK SOCCER - #2 AR
14442 12:00pm NB14D4 " " AR,AR
16243 8:00am NB16D2 " " AR
12242 11:00am NB12D2 SOUTH COUNTY MS - #2B (SS) C
16344 12:00pm NB16D3 SOUTH RUN PARK #6 AR
15244 4:00pm NB15D2 " " AR
15142 4:00pm NB15D1 SPRING HILL REC CTR - #5 C,AR
19140 12:00pm NB19D1 THOMAS JEFF HS - PRACT TURF AR,AR
14242 11:00am NB14D2 TUSCARORA HS - STADIUM (TURF) AR
15293 12:30pm NG15D2 " " AR
16143 2:30pm NB16D1 " " AR
16432 9:00am NB16D4 " " AR,AR
14443 9:00am NB14D4 UNITY REED HS #7 C,AR,AR
11551 3:00pm NB11DT VA REVOLUTION SPORTSPLEX #3A C
16241 10:00am NB16D2 WILLIAMSBURG MS #1 AR
99703 8:00am NB17D2 WILLIAMSBURG MS #1 AR,AR
19243 10:00am NB19D2 WITTER COMPLEX #1 C,AR OR AR,AR
16343 12:00pm NB16D3 " " AR,AR
15240 2:00pm NB15D2 " " AR
17141 4:00pm NB17D1 " " AR
16192 8:00am NG16D1 " " AR,AR
13441 2:00pm NB13D4 WITTER COMPLEX #2 AR
13192 8:00am NG13D1 WT WOODSON HS - WEST (TURF - FULL) AR
13143 9:30am NB13D1 " " AR,AR

EDP GAMES
WCU-9466 1:30pm EDP - U17B RANDALL REC CENTER AR
WCU-14284 9:15am EDP - U18G RFK #1 AR
WCU-11614 1:30pm EDP - U19B RIDGE ROAD REC CENTER AR
WCU-530 2:00pm EDP - U16G RIGGS LASALLE COMM CTR AR,AR

MANASSAS GAME

MSC-CCL101 10:15am MSC-CCL-U15G HELLWIG PARK #6 C,AR,AR

WARRENTON GAMES

91334 10:00am CCL-U14B ATHEY - COUNTRY CHEV AR,AR
91305 12:00pm CCL-U13G " " AR
91422 2:00pm CCL-U16G " " AR,AR
6437 4:00pm SFL-U16G " " AR,AR
1217 10:30am SFL-U11G ATHEY - TEPEYAC TITLE AR,AR
12347 4:30pm SFL-U12B " " C,AR,AR
NEW37 3:30pm PM-REC-U10 ATHEY - UNION BANK #1 C
NEW30 12:45pm PM-REC-U10B ATHEY - UNION BANK #2 C
NEW36 3:00pm PM-REC-U10 " " C
NEW38 3:45pm PM-REC-U10 " " C
16607 10:00am SFL-U16B ATHEY HIGHLAND AR
19547 12:00pm SFL-U19B " " AR,AR
13467 2:15pm SFL-U13B " " C,AR,AR
Anonymous
Post 11/07/2021 08:20     Subject: Where are the referees?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:We had a whole rec season and tournament games all day and always had referees, including sideline flag kids for our older ages. Not sure why travel with all its $$$$ can't find referees.


The complaints about the lack of refs are mostly B/S. I have several kids who play travel and in all these years, we maybe had one game when the refs did not show up.


Totally agree. Ten years of travel soccer with multiple kids and we've had only one game without refs and that was due to a field change issue.