Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just saw the thread on the mom who wants to put it in her nanny contract that the nanny not use her cell phone while baby is awake.

I SAH with a 2 year old, and have two school age kids. I definitely use my cell phone during the day, but I DO try to hold myself to similar standards a WOH parent would hold a nanny - that is, I focus on my kid when he’s awake, so no, I don’t have time for an hour long phone call to chat with my parents, or to drive to pick up random things for the older kids classroom, or whatever. And ideally I’d not set up my two year old in front of the TV so I can workout or whatever else people think SAHMs have to a of time for but would NEVER let their nanny do!

That’s all. I find other SAH parents get that my hands are full, but I’m shocked how many WOHMs think I have all this time on my hands when they simultaneously seem aware that a nanny should be focusing on the kid.

OP. when your kids get older, you will shocked at the moms who claimed to work FT but work only a few hours per week.

So much depends on the age of kids, the specific kid, and/or specific job. At my last job I only had about 5 hrs work per day and spent the rest of the time just tooling around. My manager seemed to rarely work and would go run errands midday. That job did give me more “free” time than being a SAHM. I have a different position now that is much busier and more challenging. Still less stressful than caring for a toddler.

Maybe. But I am talking about elementary school age kids' SAHMs who do as little as possible - and give that term a whole new meaning.

Anonymous wrote:I just saw the thread on the mom who wants to put it in her nanny contract that the nanny not use her cell phone while baby is awake.

I SAH with a 2 year old, and have two school age kids. I definitely use my cell phone during the day, but I DO try to hold myself to similar standards a WOH parent would hold a nanny - that is, I focus on my kid when he’s awake, so no, I don’t have time for an hour long phone call to chat with my parents, or to drive to pick up random things for the older kids classroom, or whatever. And ideally I’d not set up my two year old in front of the TV so I can workout or whatever else people think SAHMs have to a of time for but would NEVER let their nanny do!

That’s all. I find other SAH parents get that my hands are full, but I’m shocked how many WOHMs think I have all this time on my hands when they simultaneously seem aware that a nanny should be focusing on the kid.

What? Does your two-year old not nap? Why can you not leave the house? Very weird.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it is nuts you are a SAHM and won’t run errands with your 2 yr old. Yes it is harder than when you are doing them alone, but it gets them out, they see new things, you talk to them..it is fun for them.

I highly doubt you are sitting home for 8 hrs per day doing Montessori work cycles (or whatever other educational activities you do).

Op never said this. Stop arguing with yourself. She said she resents the assumption that she’s not busy or has to a of free time just because she’s a SAHM.

Of course, that's imaginary on OPs part, so lots of fantasy world-building going on here.

Anonymous wrote:I think it is nuts you are a SAHM and won’t run errands with your 2 yr old. Yes it is harder than when you are doing them alone, but it gets them out, they see new things, you talk to them..it is fun for them.

I highly doubt you are sitting home for 8 hrs per day doing Montessori work cycles (or whatever other educational activities you do).

Op never said this. Stop arguing with yourself. She said she resents the assumption that she’s not busy or has to a of free time just because she’s a SAHM.

OP - you are upset about what you think anonymous people think? You need a major reset. Your joy of experiencing motherhood will really take a beating. It won't be anonymous others causing this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP sounds like a real peach

seriously. she busy taking care of errands all day that working moms have to squeeze into nights and weekends, and complains she is SO BUSY having all dang day to do them at her leisure. OMG stop OP.

You sound bitter.

No, just stating the obvious. How dumb her post was. Not surprising she is not earning any income. Probably not too bright

I don't think she is, but what if she was? What if OP is just not as smart as you? Does that make her worthy of your scorn? Does that mean she's not as busy as she says? It seems like if OP is really intellectually deficient, she would deserve empathy and kindness, not cruelty. Whenever I encounter people who seem less intelligent than I am, I tend to feel bad for them because I know my intelligence makes my life easier.

So, again: you sound bitter.

NP. OP invited this on herself with her holier-than-thou attitude. Why are you being so defensive?

I don't feel defensive at all. I've been a SAHM and am now a working mom. I think they are both hard. I didn't find OP's post remotely condescending and actually related to much of what she said. I think people do tend to devalue SAHM's time and one reason I know that is that I have done both and noticed that people are much more deferential towards the time I spend working (even when I spend plenty of time doing stuff like posting on DCUM) than they were to the time I spent as a primary caregiver for young kids.

I think people only perceive OP as condescending because of their own feelings about motherhood and work. All she's saying is that she resents when people don't respect her time at least as much as they would respect the time of a nanny doing the exact same thing. That's a reasonable, not condescending, complaint to me.

NP. FWIW (and I say this as a former SAHM) the DCUM "you are just bitter" response always translates in my head to "I know that person is actually right, but I don't like it, so I am going to claim they are bitter."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just saw the thread on the mom who wants to put it in her nanny contract that the nanny not use her cell phone while baby is awake.

I SAH with a 2 year old, and have two school age kids. I definitely use my cell phone during the day, but I DO try to hold myself to similar standards a WOH parent would hold a nanny - that is, I focus on my kid when he’s awake, so no, I don’t have time for an hour long phone call to chat with my parents, or to drive to pick up random things for the older kids classroom, or whatever. And ideally I’d not set up my two year old in front of the TV so I can workout or whatever else people think SAHMs have to a of time for but would NEVER let their nanny do!

That’s all. I find other SAH parents get that my hands are full, but I’m shocked how many WOHMs think I have all this time on my hands when they simultaneously seem aware that a nanny should be focusing on the kid.

OP. when your kids get older, you will shocked at the moms who claimed to work FT but work only a few hours per week.

So much depends on the age of kids, the specific kid, and/or specific job. At my last job I only had about 5 hrs work per day and spent the rest of the time just tooling around. My manager seemed to rarely work and would go run errands midday. That job did give me more “free” time than being a SAHM. I have a different position now that is much busier and more challenging. Still less stressful than caring for a toddler.

Anonymous wrote:I don't really understand your post, but, when I was a SAHM I would definitely run errands and make phone calls.

So did I. I also did laundry, made meals etc. I even read books! The kid doesn't need you entertaining and catering to him him for all waking hours.

Anonymous wrote:I don't really understand your post, but, when I was a SAHM I would definitely run errands and make phone calls.

This is the benefit of being a SAHM

I think it is nuts you are a SAHM and won’t run errands with your 2 yr old. Yes it is harder than when you are doing them alone, but it gets them out, they see new things, you talk to them..it is fun for them.

I highly doubt you are sitting home for 8 hrs per day doing Montessori work cycles (or whatever other educational activities you do).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well the truth is you do have more time than a woh mom who has 8 + hrs of her day dictated by others

Your 8 hours during that same time are yours to manage how you want and the truth is a lot of people suck at time management and fill in with hours with busy work that exhaust but do nothing.

SAHMs who have been home for years and never really worked also lack so many basic office skills - create a simple formatted doc, make a slide, create a simple spreadsheet - that WOHMs take for granted and do all the time.

I have been a working mom and now a SAHM.

I recently told a friend that I did much more volunteering when I was a working mom than now that I’m a SAHM. I had far more energy when I was working. It was easy to make phone calls, write emails, make a flyer without a baby/toddler. It is hard to get anything done with a little human next to you. There is always something that needs to be done like dishes, laundry, etc and I have cleaners. It is just physically exhausting.

I have two masters and held senior positions. The reason I decided to stay home is because I felt I did not spend enough time with my children.

This. Same experience. It was so hard to get anything “extra” done when I was home with small kids. It’s relentless! I also do more volunteer work, more school related stuff, and help out friends and family more now that I’m working and my kids are in school. Most office jobs have a decent amount of leeway in terms of taking time to make a phone call or order something online or send some emails. We had home repairs that languished for months when I was a SAHM that I got fixed almost immediately after I was working and everyone was out of the house.

Being a SAHM to under 5s is all consuming. I wanted to do more but just couldn’t. I was tired constantly. Now as a working mom, I exercise more, I don’t wake up tired everyday, and yes, I do more. It’s just hard to get much done with toddlers around. You have to focus on their needs and they have a lot of needs. If you have a nanny or send your kids to daycare (or have family help) you may not realize how intense it is for all that to be on you. It’s so much easier now that I share that with my kid’s teachers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The SAHM job is one of the hardest - totally undervalued and underestimated.

It’s precisely valued. Nanny and housekeeper rates are readily available

And yet, when working parents had to do this during the pandemic, there was a widespread trend of leaving the workforce because it was too hard. Obviously, it’s not as simple as what you describe. Otherwise people would not have quit higher paying careers to take care of their children.

Your attitude is the epitome of how caregiving is devalued in this country. Until we stop ignoring and minimizing the realities of this (often unpaid) labor, women will continue to leave the workforce en masse. That hurts ALL working women, it hurts the economy and sets the entire country backwards.

NP. People had to quit because a) their daycare centers closed or b) YEAH, they couldn’t handle literally two full-time jobs at once.

Enough with the “stop ignoring and minimizing” mush-mouthing: what is it you want? What is it that you are asking and advocating for? Spell it out. Working spouses must pay their SAH spouses? Is that what you are advocating for? Government subsidies for SAHPs? Be clear. None of this “stop ignoring and minimizing,” which last time I checked, few people on this thread are actually doing. What is it that you want to see happen? Be clear. How are you actively working to make it happen? Be clear.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get your point OP (and I've always been a WOHM). Some working parents will pay their nannies big bucks and implement all kinds of rules on what their nannies should be doing for 8 hours but devalue it when a parent wants to do it on their own and tell them they are doing it wrong if they don't have free time and aren't stress-free. It's ridiculous. I've said it before and I stand by this--this SAH vs WOH/WAH debate has always boiled down to people who are insecure or unhappy in their own working situations projecting that bitterness onto the opposite side to make themselves feel better. For the most part, my friends (and I think most people) are all pretty happy with their varying work situations and we never talk about it because it's not an issue. Most people don't care and you need to ignore those who insult you as long as it works for YOU.

A million times +1

Yes, this sums it up nicely. I find it bizarre that people get caught up in this debate as if one answer is right and the other wrong. Any mentally healthy person who knows a lot of older teens and young adults well enough to know their family situations will realize that the ones who are doing well were raised in families with all variations of WOH and SAHM moms, and the same for the ones that are doing poorly. There only thing you need to do strive to do as a parent is figure out a path that will enable you to raise healthy, secure kids and hopefully have fun while doing that along with whatever else you put your mind to. If you are doing that, then there is no need to care in the slightest what a single other person besides your spouse thinks about it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The SAHM job is one of the hardest - totally undervalued and underestimated.

It’s precisely valued. Nanny and housekeeper rates are readily available

And yet, when working parents had to do this during the pandemic, there was a widespread trend of leaving the workforce because it was too hard. Obviously, it’s not as simple as what you describe. Otherwise people would not have quit higher paying careers to take care of their children.

Your attitude is the epitome of how caregiving is devalued in this country. Until we stop ignoring and minimizing the realities of this (often unpaid) labor, women will continue to leave the workforce en masse. That hurts ALL working women, it hurts the economy and sets the entire country backwards.

Anonymous wrote:I just saw the thread on the mom who wants to put it in her nanny contract that the nanny not use her cell phone while baby is awake.

I SAH with a 2 year old, and have two school age kids. I definitely use my cell phone during the day, but I DO try to hold myself to similar standards a WOH parent would hold a nanny - that is, I focus on my kid when he’s awake, so no, I don’t have time for an hour long phone call to chat with my parents, or to drive to pick up random things for the older kids classroom, or whatever. And ideally I’d not set up my two year old in front of the TV so I can workout or whatever else people think SAHMs have to a of time for but would NEVER let their nanny do!

That’s all. I find other SAH parents get that my hands are full, but I’m shocked how many WOHMs think I have all this time on my hands when they simultaneously seem aware that a nanny should be focusing on the kid.

OP. when your kids get older, you will shocked at the moms who claimed to work FT but work only a few hours per week.