Anonymous wrote:What about first generation college graduates?

If a man has blue-collar parents, who is to say he is not culturally blue collar even if he is the first one in his family to go to college?

This is my brother! My siblings and I are first generation college graduates. My brother graduated top of his class from an ivy undergraduate and an ivy law school, and he married a woman who did the same. She's lovely, and my family adores her, but she has had to adjust to our Trump loving father who barely graduated high school and can't spell (but runs a very successful business), and our hair dresser turned SAH mom. His wife comes from east coast liberal parents like most in their peer group. She's a vegan and my dad has cattle. Honestly, the get a long great and from there was mutual respect. I'm biased, but I think my brother could have married almost anyone he met at school because he's smart, good looking and self-assured. Part of my brother will always be blue collar, and the older my siblings and I get, the more we all cling to the best parts of our childhood, like camping trips, rodeos, horse rides, ATVs, backcountry skiing, snowmobiling, country music - things that none of our spouses grew up with! It really comes out in how we raise our children and the things we want to pass on to them. My husband is more like me - he grew up in a farm town but went to great schools (on scholarship) where he started out as an outsider with almost nothing in common with his peers, but he's a joiner and fits in at the country club and in board meetings. Most people who don't know him well would never guess where and how he grew up. I've pulled the opposite direction and take our kids to grandma and grandpa's house whenever I can to go for tractor and mule rides, and I see similar patterns in my siblings' marriages, so our kids and their cousins live between two worlds. I hope they get a great education, but also never lose the redneck culture of my family.

As someone who works at brookings, the new media cycle is total fluff. But the average American with a smart phone laps it up. Go AOC!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OH gawd so taxpayers and endowment donations are paying for all these useless overeducated PhDs?

I'd only do a STEM one. even economics is overkill. like I ever use proofs and diffy Q at the IMF reports. Maybe SAS or STATA max and I learned that at the Fed.

Sure, you know what most dictators do? Kill the intellectuals. If you’ve ever been in a country without higher education and research due to some kind of purge I guarantee you’d be singing a different song.

Intellectuals are the problem in America today, not the solution. They are the source of all the dysfunction. They shouldn’t be allowed anywhere near the government, and decisionmakers should ignore them.

(I have a PhD)

Define "intellectual." If you're saying that people who read books should stay away from government, I disagree. I also disagree if you're alluding to "rootless cosmopolitans" (*wink wink*).

Riddle me this: when did loudmouth Twitter activists replace expert and experienced opinions in America?

Today anyone can call themselves an Intellectual. It’s now a meaningless term. Because ppl react more to Twitter than cronkite.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OH gawd so taxpayers and endowment donations are paying for all these useless overeducated PhDs?

I'd only do a STEM one. even economics is overkill. like I ever use proofs and diffy Q at the IMF reports. Maybe SAS or STATA max and I learned that at the Fed.

Sure, you know what most dictators do? Kill the intellectuals. If you’ve ever been in a country without higher education and research due to some kind of purge I guarantee you’d be singing a different song.

Yes have family from Turkey. Brian drain in the 1970s and last 10 years.

That said purging secular, educated STEM and (former) western values (like capitalism, republics, k-12 education, separation church/state) is different from the organized social indoctrination found in many US colleges and mass media today. And increasing in k-12 public and private schools.

Far cry from today’s soft western “intellectuals” touting Gender Fluidity, Revisionalist History, Critical Race Theory, Welfare states renamed Stimulus, gender and race studies, etc.

Criticizing what other people built in another time through your political agenda lens does not take much “intellect.” You just ram your opinion down peoples throats at every juncture until they go away or are brainwashed. Similar to a dictator indeed. Meanwhile, no actual GDP, standard of living increase, and the producer intellects leave.

OP is an incel troll and definitely isn’t an Ivy grad. He was mad at women before and now he’s moved onto the educated men.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's a class issue. I have a graduate degree from a fancy school and grew up in a wealthy area, so I know a lot of UMC folks pretty well. But, my parents did not go to college, worked blue collar jobs, and were not into the whole UMC social scene. As a result, I know lots of people who are not "well educated" but read plenty, have diverse interests, and can hold their own in an intellectual conversation. They just did not go to college and do not work professional jobs. I also know lots of UMC women who would never consider dating any of those people, because they are not "well educated." The women will say it's about "ability to hold a conversation," but either they are ignorant or they are not being honest; plenty of these folks can hold a conversation. Instead, it really seems that they want someone who will fit in with their family and friends and is not too different. This is a class issue.

A degree is like a form of insurance.

If you are blue collar and the economy turns, you lose a job, etc. it’s harder to find work. Even Starbucks baristas have college degrees.

If you have a college degree it helps and if you have a graduate or professional degree it’s even more insurance (unless your loan debt is outrageous ).

It’s a tribe. Are you comfortable in a crowd with guys friends that didn’t finish high school or go to college and likely their girlfriends/wives too? I dated a few guys in 20s who never went to college and the women and crowd they hung out with I did not have much in common.

My husband came from a blue collar neighborhood, grew up very poor but got $ to go to a top university, speaks 3 languages fluently is well-read, Renaissance man that travels extensively. We can from different worlds.

Not always.

Remember in the 80's, when shallow women wanted to marry lawyers? Still true, it depends what profession is "trendy", I suppose.

I know lawyers who have been unemployed for years, during their career. I have also known engineers who have been unemployed for years, during their career. And so on.

Builders? Tradespeople? Can always find a job, they are always needed, there is never a glut, IME. THAT is insurance.

Unemployment knows no bounds. A HYPSM degree seems like insurance, but it really is not, IME.

I'm 51. I dated a lawyer once. He was fun but he would not have made a good husband. I'm now married to an IT guy.

In part, having an education shows an ability to follow through on what you start, to set a goal and achieve it, to have a baseline knowledge of a wide variety of subjects, to learn how to think etc.

Plenty of people can make a great living without that, but if you're looking for a mindset rather than an income, then having a degree is a good way to filter for it.

Anonymous wrote:If a woman was overly interested in what I do for a living, or my college experience, I would find that EXTREMELY weird.

Don't worry, no educated woman looking for an educated man is going to bother with you.

I only have a bachelors degree because in the tech industry a master’s/PhD doesn’t help much unless you go in to a very specialized/theoretical subfield and pursuing one can take away from having actual work experience which is more valuable especially early career. I may go for a masters in a year or two but I’m early 30’s and don’t feel much pressure to. I make around half a million.

If a woman was overly interested in what I do for a living, or my college experience, I would find that EXTREMELY weird.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is incel-speak for “how dare women have standards.”

That's exactly what it is

No the point was women have dumb standards.

This is an incel mansplaining the standards of women. Lol.

Haven't read past page 1. Genes - they want big brains and tall men.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's a class issue. I have a graduate degree from a fancy school and grew up in a wealthy area, so I know a lot of UMC folks pretty well. But, my parents did not go to college, worked blue collar jobs, and were not into the whole UMC social scene. As a result, I know lots of people who are not "well educated" but read plenty, have diverse interests, and can hold their own in an intellectual conversation. They just did not go to college and do not work professional jobs. I also know lots of UMC women who would never consider dating any of those people, because they are not "well educated." The women will say it's about "ability to hold a conversation," but either they are ignorant or they are not being honest; plenty of these folks can hold a conversation. Instead, it really seems that they want someone who will fit in with their family and friends and is not too different. This is a class issue.

A degree is like a form of insurance.

If you are blue collar and the economy turns, you lose a job, etc. it’s harder to find work. Even Starbucks baristas have college degrees.

If you have a college degree it helps and if you have a graduate or professional degree it’s even more insurance (unless your loan debt is outrageous ).

It’s a tribe. Are you comfortable in a crowd with guys friends that didn’t finish high school or go to college and likely their girlfriends/wives too? I dated a few guys in 20s who never went to college and the women and crowd they hung out with I did not have much in common.

My husband came from a blue collar neighborhood, grew up very poor but got $ to go to a top university, speaks 3 languages fluently is well-read, Renaissance man that travels extensively. We can from different worlds.

Practically, the bolded is how I think about it. Are there plenty of intelligent, hard-working, decent people without college degrees who earn a good living? Sure. But college degrees afford many more options than without them, typically. That's why we encourage our kids to go to college and why DH's aunt insisted he attend, even though neither of his parents did. A bachelors degree gives you options. Graduate degrees can, too, of course, but they often come with a debt burden that may or may not be worth it.

But a plumber earns 100k a year on average without the stress time and gray hairs if takes to earn a college degree. A good real estate agent is the same.

Working customer to customer is a lot more stressful way to support a family than having a salary and contract. If you’re a doctor, lawyer, professor, fed, etc. you are guaranteed to bring in a base minimum with things like benefits and retirement on top of that. Having to hustle to sell each job to get paid is pretty stressful.

You have no idea WTH you are talking about. I know contractors who have one contract, and they don't know if each renewal (of months, not years) means they are staying, or having to pound the pavement. Not all contracts are guaranteed. Contracts are written to protect the person that hires, not the employee. Never seen any guarantees, in any contract.

I know lawyers, engineers, etc. who have been out of work for years. Good ones. I also know feds that can't be fired, which might be what you are referring to.

OTOH, people always need plumbers, electricians, etc. Plus, the blue collar people have unions behind them, which is as good as any "guarantee" one would get.

To add, you can ask them all you want, people do not disclose the specifics of their contract with you, because it can nullify their contract to do so. You don't know the whole story.

Just like PP mentioned, PP also don't tell you about disability payments, etc.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's a class issue. I have a graduate degree from a fancy school and grew up in a wealthy area, so I know a lot of UMC folks pretty well. But, my parents did not go to college, worked blue collar jobs, and were not into the whole UMC social scene. As a result, I know lots of people who are not "well educated" but read plenty, have diverse interests, and can hold their own in an intellectual conversation. They just did not go to college and do not work professional jobs. I also know lots of UMC women who would never consider dating any of those people, because they are not "well educated." The women will say it's about "ability to hold a conversation," but either they are ignorant or they are not being honest; plenty of these folks can hold a conversation. Instead, it really seems that they want someone who will fit in with their family and friends and is not too different. This is a class issue.

A degree is like a form of insurance.

If you are blue collar and the economy turns, you lose a job, etc. it’s harder to find work. Even Starbucks baristas have college degrees.

If you have a college degree it helps and if you have a graduate or professional degree it’s even more insurance (unless your loan debt is outrageous ).

It’s a tribe. Are you comfortable in a crowd with guys friends that didn’t finish high school or go to college and likely their girlfriends/wives too? I dated a few guys in 20s who never went to college and the women and crowd they hung out with I did not have much in common.

My husband came from a blue collar neighborhood, grew up very poor but got $ to go to a top university, speaks 3 languages fluently is well-read, Renaissance man that travels extensively. We can from different worlds.

Practically, the bolded is how I think about it. Are there plenty of intelligent, hard-working, decent people without college degrees who earn a good living? Sure. But college degrees afford many more options than without them, typically. That's why we encourage our kids to go to college and why DH's aunt insisted he attend, even though neither of his parents did. A bachelors degree gives you options. Graduate degrees can, too, of course, but they often come with a debt burden that may or may not be worth it.

But a plumber earns 100k a year on average without the stress time and gray hairs if takes to earn a college degree. A good real estate agent is the same.

Working customer to customer is a lot more stressful way to support a family than having a salary and contract. If you’re a doctor, lawyer, professor, fed, etc. you are guaranteed to bring in a base minimum with things like benefits and retirement on top of that. Having to hustle to sell each job to get paid is pretty stressful.

You have no idea WTH you are talking about. I know contractors who have one contract, and they don't know if each renewal (of months, not years) means they are staying, or having to pound the pavement. Not all contracts are guaranteed. Contracts are written to protect the person that hires, not the employee. Never seen any guarantees, in any contract.

I know lawyers, engineers, etc. who have been out of work for years. Good ones. I also know feds that can't be fired, which might be what you are referring to.

OTOH, people always need plumbers, electricians, etc. Plus, the blue collar people have unions behind them, which is as good as any "guarantee" one would get.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OH gawd so taxpayers and endowment donations are paying for all these useless overeducated PhDs?

I'd only do a STEM one. even economics is overkill. like I ever use proofs and diffy Q at the IMF reports. Maybe SAS or STATA max and I learned that at the Fed.

Sure, you know what most dictators do? Kill the intellectuals. If you’ve ever been in a country without higher education and research due to some kind of purge I guarantee you’d be singing a different song.

Intellectuals are the problem in America today, not the solution. They are the source of all the dysfunction. They shouldn’t be allowed anywhere near the government, and decisionmakers should ignore them.

(I have a PhD)

Define "intellectual." If you're saying that people who read books should stay away from government, I disagree. I also disagree if you're alluding to "rootless cosmopolitans" (*wink wink*).