Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is a change of generation. The younger generations don't believe in saving as much as their parents, grandparents, etc. They also haven't lived long enough to see the bottom fall out so they have never been scared senseless. Personally, I think society has gone sideways with the constant upselling on bigger, badder, better houses. It's not sustainable. I have no idea how these 6,000 sq ft homes are going to be maintained over the next 10-20 years. What will we do with them when our young kids and their kids want to bash and build?

Personally, I think we need to stop the perpetually supersizing mentality. But, alas, that is very un-American.

Wait, you don’t think young adults the worked between 2008 and today haven’t seen the bottom fall out TWICE??

If anything, this generation understands that much better than the previous. My parent’s generation was super lucky overall, and their wealth was a lot more luck and lot less hard work than my generation or my son’s.

1. People people in their 30s/40s did not have a lot of money invested in 2008, so the drop was not as scary.
2. What happened to the stock market in March 2020 COVID was nothing as it is quickly recovered.
3. Think when the tech bubble burst, or the lost decade in investing, earning no money for a decade.

I am the OP and I am in my mid-forties. I have friends whose entire career trajectories were massively impacted by 2001 and 2008. Not just the stock market, but their entire careers.

My son and my friend’s son graduated during COVID or are graduating this year. The job market isn’t great for this bunch as a whole. Much like my friends, this will impact their career trajectories, which impacts their savings, ability to purchase housing, etc.

In comparison my parents had it pretty damn good. $145k home now worth $2M. SAHM. College was $10k/year for me and my sister. Retired in their mid-50s with $4.5M, and are worth an awful lot more than that today because they got lifetime healthcare and paid off that $145k home when I was 14. They never made a lot, we were barely UMC (not lawyer/lobbyist types). It was not hard to save a ton when things were fairly cheap.

And yes, they had hardships - my dad was kicked out of his house at 17. But he was able to go to college on his own while working part time. No student loans needed. Went to Vietnam, but was also rewarded handsomely by government programs after that fact.

LOL. My father also served during Vietnam and took advantage of the GI bill. That said, I would trade what he gained financially for the security of not having to go to Vietnam. Also, do you know that if you serve(d), you can still take advantage of the GI bill today? I'm sorry but at no time have Gen-Xers lived a tougher life than their parents. Yes, things are more expensive now but you live in a much more secure world. You didn't have to live through the Cold War. You weren't drafted for Vietnam. Your parents didn't march off to WW2 to come back with a world of crap. I am also a Gen-X and I agree that Boomers financially made out better than our generation - cheaper housing, school, lower cost of living, easier to save - but they didn't have it "easier" by any measure.

People today just like to complain. Particularly if they've never actually gone through a real life-altering hardship.

Are you frickin kidding? Gen X had Afghanistan and Iraq, and will see the onset of climate change and the cold war with China after the boomers die. (But not before the boomers blow up the federal deficit to pay for their healthcare.) If you think the world is secure right now, you're nuts.

Don't take our word for it, look it up. White boomers had it much, much easier financially and socioeconomically than your average millennial. https://www.kiplinger.com/retirement/602986/myth-busting-millennials-vs-baby-boomers-where-you-stand-and-what-you-can-learn

Those comparisons aren't even on par. The difference between the former wars and Afg/Iraq is how they impacted the entire societies. For most GenX, they would not have been directly impacted by AFg/Iraq wars unless they had enlisted themselves or had family that had done so. Conversely, Vietnam affected a much larger swath of people becuase they were drafted (many) which caused widespread resentment and opposition to the war. It was all encompassing. A WWI or WW2? Well, if you cannot tell the difference there then you are not too sharp.

Sorry, fears regarding climate change and a potential, future "Cold War" with China do not stack up to the actual scenarios where entire societies were plunged into war. Again, current generations have not gone through anywhere near the same hardships as their parents which has changed spending and saving habits. This is not rocket science. You scared? You save. You feel good? You spend.

And yes, the world is significantly more secure than the last century where we had the ENTIRE PLANET went to war against itself. Twice. Tell me, would you rather be living in 1914, 1939, 1955, or 2021? Even with COVID, I take 2021.

1955 isn't that bad if you're a white guy. I wouldn't want the racism or the gender roles, but in terms of stability of the planet 1955 beats 2021. People freaked out about the Cold War but we still have all those nuclear weapons--increasingly in even less stable hands. Covid plus extreme weather due to climate change and the instability associated with climate change.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We make 400k hhi and just bought our forever house we love in an area we love with amazing public schools for 800k. That would be pretty conservative I imagine for this OP. We live in an uppity area where you can easily spend multiple millions on gorgeous homes that are 6000 sf but we found a nice 3000 sf older but well maintained home that suits our needs and lifestyle and is in a great location. So why would I spend 2 million just because?

"Uppity area" ??

yeah, I am wondering if PP even knows the origination of that term. Yikes.

You’re confusing “connotation” with “origination.” It has a meaning independent of its racist connotation.

Duh, you are right - and that makes it SO much better.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is a change of generation. The younger generations don't believe in saving as much as their parents, grandparents, etc. They also haven't lived long enough to see the bottom fall out so they have never been scared senseless. Personally, I think society has gone sideways with the constant upselling on bigger, badder, better houses. It's not sustainable. I have no idea how these 6,000 sq ft homes are going to be maintained over the next 10-20 years. What will we do with them when our young kids and their kids want to bash and build?

Personally, I think we need to stop the perpetually supersizing mentality. But, alas, that is very un-American.

Wait, you don’t think young adults the worked between 2008 and today haven’t seen the bottom fall out TWICE??

If anything, this generation understands that much better than the previous. My parent’s generation was super lucky overall, and their wealth was a lot more luck and lot less hard work than my generation or my son’s.

1. People people in their 30s/40s did not have a lot of money invested in 2008, so the drop was not as scary.
2. What happened to the stock market in March 2020 COVID was nothing as it is quickly recovered.
3. Think when the tech bubble burst, or the lost decade in investing, earning no money for a decade.

I am the OP and I am in my mid-forties. I have friends whose entire career trajectories were massively impacted by 2001 and 2008. Not just the stock market, but their entire careers.

My son and my friend’s son graduated during COVID or are graduating this year. The job market isn’t great for this bunch as a whole. Much like my friends, this will impact their career trajectories, which impacts their savings, ability to purchase housing, etc.

In comparison my parents had it pretty damn good. $145k home now worth $2M. SAHM. College was $10k/year for me and my sister. Retired in their mid-50s with $4.5M, and are worth an awful lot more than that today because they got lifetime healthcare and paid off that $145k home when I was 14. They never made a lot, we were barely UMC (not lawyer/lobbyist types). It was not hard to save a ton when things were fairly cheap.

And yes, they had hardships - my dad was kicked out of his house at 17. But he was able to go to college on his own while working part time. No student loans needed. Went to Vietnam, but was also rewarded handsomely by government programs after that fact.

LOL. My father also served during Vietnam and took advantage of the GI bill. That said, I would trade what he gained financially for the security of not having to go to Vietnam. Also, do you know that if you serve(d), you can still take advantage of the GI bill today? I'm sorry but at no time have Gen-Xers lived a tougher life than their parents. Yes, things are more expensive now but you live in a much more secure world. You didn't have to live through the Cold War. You weren't drafted for Vietnam. Your parents didn't march off to WW2 to come back with a world of crap. I am also a Gen-X and I agree that Boomers financially made out better than our generation - cheaper housing, school, lower cost of living, easier to save - but they didn't have it "easier" by any measure.

People today just like to complain. Particularly if they've never actually gone through a real life-altering hardship.

Are you frickin kidding? Gen X had Afghanistan and Iraq, and will see the onset of climate change and the cold war with China after the boomers die. (But not before the boomers blow up the federal deficit to pay for their healthcare.) If you think the world is secure right now, you're nuts.

Don't take our word for it, look it up. White boomers had it much, much easier financially and socioeconomically than your average millennial. https://www.kiplinger.com/retirement/602986/myth-busting-millennials-vs-baby-boomers-where-you-stand-and-what-you-can-learn

Those comparisons aren't even on par. The difference between the former wars and Afg/Iraq is how they impacted the entire societies. For most GenX, they would not have been directly impacted by AFg/Iraq wars unless they had enlisted themselves or had family that had done so. Conversely, Vietnam affected a much larger swath of people becuase they were drafted (many) which caused widespread resentment and opposition to the war. It was all encompassing. A WWI or WW2? Well, if you cannot tell the difference there then you are not too sharp.

Sorry, fears regarding climate change and a potential, future "Cold War" with China do not stack up to the actual scenarios where entire societies were plunged into war. Again, current generations have not gone through anywhere near the same hardships as their parents which has changed spending and saving habits. This is not rocket science. You scared? You save. You feel good? You spend.

And yes, the world is significantly more secure than the last century where we had the ENTIRE PLANET went to war against itself. Twice. Tell me, would you rather be living in 1914, 1939, 1955, or 2021? Even with COVID, I take 2021.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is a change of generation. The younger generations don't believe in saving as much as their parents, grandparents, etc. They also haven't lived long enough to see the bottom fall out so they have never been scared senseless. Personally, I think society has gone sideways with the constant upselling on bigger, badder, better houses. It's not sustainable. I have no idea how these 6,000 sq ft homes are going to be maintained over the next 10-20 years. What will we do with them when our young kids and their kids want to bash and build?

Personally, I think we need to stop the perpetually supersizing mentality. But, alas, that is very un-American.

Wait, you don’t think young adults the worked between 2008 and today haven’t seen the bottom fall out TWICE??

If anything, this generation understands that much better than the previous. My parent’s generation was super lucky overall, and their wealth was a lot more luck and lot less hard work than my generation or my son’s.

1. People people in their 30s/40s did not have a lot of money invested in 2008, so the drop was not as scary.
2. What happened to the stock market in March 2020 COVID was nothing as it is quickly recovered.
3. Think when the tech bubble burst, or the lost decade in investing, earning no money for a decade.

I am the OP and I am in my mid-forties. I have friends whose entire career trajectories were massively impacted by 2001 and 2008. Not just the stock market, but their entire careers.

My son and my friend’s son graduated during COVID or are graduating this year. The job market isn’t great for this bunch as a whole. Much like my friends, this will impact their career trajectories, which impacts their savings, ability to purchase housing, etc.

In comparison my parents had it pretty damn good. $145k home now worth $2M. SAHM. College was $10k/year for me and my sister. Retired in their mid-50s with $4.5M, and are worth an awful lot more than that today because they got lifetime healthcare and paid off that $145k home when I was 14. They never made a lot, we were barely UMC (not lawyer/lobbyist types). It was not hard to save a ton when things were fairly cheap.

And yes, they had hardships - my dad was kicked out of his house at 17. But he was able to go to college on his own while working part time. No student loans needed. Went to Vietnam, but was also rewarded handsomely by government programs after that fact.

LOL. My father also served during Vietnam and took advantage of the GI bill. That said, I would trade what he gained financially for the security of not having to go to Vietnam. Also, do you know that if you serve(d), you can still take advantage of the GI bill today? I'm sorry but at no time have Gen-Xers lived a tougher life than their parents. Yes, things are more expensive now but you live in a much more secure world. You didn't have to live through the Cold War. You weren't drafted for Vietnam. Your parents didn't march off to WW2 to come back with a world of crap. I am also a Gen-X and I agree that Boomers financially made out better than our generation - cheaper housing, school, lower cost of living, easier to save - but they didn't have it "easier" by any measure.

People today just like to complain. Particularly if they've never actually gone through a real life-altering hardship.

Are you frickin kidding? Gen X had Afghanistan and Iraq, and will see the onset of climate change and the cold war with China after the boomers die. (But not before the boomers blow up the federal deficit to pay for their healthcare.) If you think the world is secure right now, you're nuts.

Don't take our word for it, look it up. White boomers had it much, much easier financially and socioeconomically than your average millennial. https://www.kiplinger.com/retirement/602986/myth-busting-millennials-vs-baby-boomers-where-you-stand-and-what-you-can-learn

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People comparing their expenses to their parents is always interesting to me. So if the mid-40’s pp whose parents bought a $145,000 house bought it around when he/she was born, that would be about 1975. (FWIW, $145,000 was an expensive house in 1975!) Accounting for inflation, that would be about $740,000 today. Also note that the average 30-year interest rate in 1975 was 9.05%. That interest rate, as compared to today, effectively doubles the payment. They were paying about $1,100 a month if they put $20,000 down. Adjusted for inflation, that would be about $5,600 today. At a 3% interest rate, that would buy about a $1.4 million house (with 20% down).

So, somewhat cheaper than today, but not the OMG, a house for $145k(!) cheap. People also forget how expensive things were in the 70’s. Gasoline prices were about the same as today, adjusted for inflation. Clothing prices were much higher. An “inexpensive” t-shirt at the Mall was around $10, which would be about $50 in today’s dollars. We just didn’t have the kind of inexpensive consumer goods that we have today.

Note that if the $145,000 had been invested in the stock market in investments that tracked the DJIA, the stocks would be worth over $5 million today.

I am that PP. they bought it in 1989.

In 1989, interest rates were as high as 11%.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is a change of generation. The younger generations don't believe in saving as much as their parents, grandparents, etc. They also haven't lived long enough to see the bottom fall out so they have never been scared senseless. Personally, I think society has gone sideways with the constant upselling on bigger, badder, better houses. It's not sustainable. I have no idea how these 6,000 sq ft homes are going to be maintained over the next 10-20 years. What will we do with them when our young kids and their kids want to bash and build?

Personally, I think we need to stop the perpetually supersizing mentality. But, alas, that is very un-American.

Wait, you don’t think young adults the worked between 2008 and today haven’t seen the bottom fall out TWICE??

If anything, this generation understands that much better than the previous. My parent’s generation was super lucky overall, and their wealth was a lot more luck and lot less hard work than my generation or my son’s.

1. People people in their 30s/40s did not have a lot of money invested in 2008, so the drop was not as scary.
2. What happened to the stock market in March 2020 COVID was nothing as it is quickly recovered.
3. Think when the tech bubble burst, or the lost decade in investing, earning no money for a decade.

I am the OP and I am in my mid-forties. I have friends whose entire career trajectories were massively impacted by 2001 and 2008. Not just the stock market, but their entire careers.

My son and my friend’s son graduated during COVID or are graduating this year. The job market isn’t great for this bunch as a whole. Much like my friends, this will impact their career trajectories, which impacts their savings, ability to purchase housing, etc.

In comparison my parents had it pretty damn good. $145k home now worth $2M. SAHM. College was $10k/year for me and my sister. Retired in their mid-50s with $4.5M, and are worth an awful lot more than that today because they got lifetime healthcare and paid off that $145k home when I was 14. They never made a lot, we were barely UMC (not lawyer/lobbyist types). It was not hard to save a ton when things were fairly cheap.

And yes, they had hardships - my dad was kicked out of his house at 17. But he was able to go to college on his own while working part time. No student loans needed. Went to Vietnam, but was also rewarded handsomely by government programs after that fact.

My experience is different. All of the recent college grads I know had good jobs lined up or found something very shortly after graduating. The only ones who seemed to struggle a bit were those who had non-marketable majors and/or lacked internship/volunteer experience.

That’s great, but it doesn’t match reality:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/05/27/millennial-recession-covid/%3foutputType=amp

My reality is definitely different. Not sure why you linked to a story about Millennials. Millennials are roughly 25-40 years old these days, and no one would dispute their very bad luck/timing. But recent college graduates are Gen Z, and they have or will be entering a solid job market. All of the 2020 and 2021 grads in my neighborhood that I know of are employed. No baristas, either.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is a change of generation. The younger generations don't believe in saving as much as their parents, grandparents, etc. They also haven't lived long enough to see the bottom fall out so they have never been scared senseless. Personally, I think society has gone sideways with the constant upselling on bigger, badder, better houses. It's not sustainable. I have no idea how these 6,000 sq ft homes are going to be maintained over the next 10-20 years. What will we do with them when our young kids and their kids want to bash and build?

Personally, I think we need to stop the perpetually supersizing mentality. But, alas, that is very un-American.

Wait, you don’t think young adults the worked between 2008 and today haven’t seen the bottom fall out TWICE??

If anything, this generation understands that much better than the previous. My parent’s generation was super lucky overall, and their wealth was a lot more luck and lot less hard work than my generation or my son’s.

1. People people in their 30s/40s did not have a lot of money invested in 2008, so the drop was not as scary.
2. What happened to the stock market in March 2020 COVID was nothing as it is quickly recovered.
3. Think when the tech bubble burst, or the lost decade in investing, earning no money for a decade.

I am the OP and I am in my mid-forties. I have friends whose entire career trajectories were massively impacted by 2001 and 2008. Not just the stock market, but their entire careers.

My son and my friend’s son graduated during COVID or are graduating this year. The job market isn’t great for this bunch as a whole. Much like my friends, this will impact their career trajectories, which impacts their savings, ability to purchase housing, etc.

In comparison my parents had it pretty damn good. $145k home now worth $2M. SAHM. College was $10k/year for me and my sister. Retired in their mid-50s with $4.5M, and are worth an awful lot more than that today because they got lifetime healthcare and paid off that $145k home when I was 14. They never made a lot, we were barely UMC (not lawyer/lobbyist types). It was not hard to save a ton when things were fairly cheap.

And yes, they had hardships - my dad was kicked out of his house at 17. But he was able to go to college on his own while working part time. No student loans needed. Went to Vietnam, but was also rewarded handsomely by government programs after that fact.

My experience is different. All of the recent college grads I know had good jobs lined up or found something very shortly after graduating. The only ones who seemed to struggle a bit were those who had non-marketable majors and/or lacked internship/volunteer experience.

That’s great, but it doesn’t match reality:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/05/27/millennial-recession-covid/%3foutputType=amp

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People comparing their expenses to their parents is always interesting to me. So if the mid-40’s pp whose parents bought a $145,000 house bought it around when he/she was born, that would be about 1975. (FWIW, $145,000 was an expensive house in 1975!) Accounting for inflation, that would be about $740,000 today. Also note that the average 30-year interest rate in 1975 was 9.05%. That interest rate, as compared to today, effectively doubles the payment. They were paying about $1,100 a month if they put $20,000 down. Adjusted for inflation, that would be about $5,600 today. At a 3% interest rate, that would buy about a $1.4 million house (with 20% down).

So, somewhat cheaper than today, but not the OMG, a house for $145k(!) cheap. People also forget how expensive things were in the 70’s. Gasoline prices were about the same as today, adjusted for inflation. Clothing prices were much higher. An “inexpensive” t-shirt at the Mall was around $10, which would be about $50 in today’s dollars. We just didn’t have the kind of inexpensive consumer goods that we have today.

Note that if the $145,000 had been invested in the stock market in investments that tracked the DJIA, the stocks would be worth over $5 million today.

I am that PP. they bought it in 1989.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is a change of generation. The younger generations don't believe in saving as much as their parents, grandparents, etc. They also haven't lived long enough to see the bottom fall out so they have never been scared senseless. Personally, I think society has gone sideways with the constant upselling on bigger, badder, better houses. It's not sustainable. I have no idea how these 6,000 sq ft homes are going to be maintained over the next 10-20 years. What will we do with them when our young kids and their kids want to bash and build?

Personally, I think we need to stop the perpetually supersizing mentality. But, alas, that is very un-American.

Wait, you don’t think young adults the worked between 2008 and today haven’t seen the bottom fall out TWICE??

If anything, this generation understands that much better than the previous. My parent’s generation was super lucky overall, and their wealth was a lot more luck and lot less hard work than my generation or my son’s.

1. People people in their 30s/40s did not have a lot of money invested in 2008, so the drop was not as scary.
2. What happened to the stock market in March 2020 COVID was nothing as it is quickly recovered.
3. Think when the tech bubble burst, or the lost decade in investing, earning no money for a decade.

I am the OP and I am in my mid-forties. I have friends whose entire career trajectories were massively impacted by 2001 and 2008. Not just the stock market, but their entire careers.

My son and my friend’s son graduated during COVID or are graduating this year. The job market isn’t great for this bunch as a whole. Much like my friends, this will impact their career trajectories, which impacts their savings, ability to purchase housing, etc.

In comparison my parents had it pretty damn good. $145k home now worth $2M. SAHM. College was $10k/year for me and my sister. Retired in their mid-50s with $4.5M, and are worth an awful lot more than that today because they got lifetime healthcare and paid off that $145k home when I was 14. They never made a lot, we were barely UMC (not lawyer/lobbyist types). It was not hard to save a ton when things were fairly cheap.

And yes, they had hardships - my dad was kicked out of his house at 17. But he was able to go to college on his own while working part time. No student loans needed. Went to Vietnam, but was also rewarded handsomely by government programs after that fact.

My experience is different. All of the recent college grads I know had good jobs lined up or found something very shortly after graduating. The only ones who seemed to struggle a bit were those who had non-marketable majors and/or lacked internship/volunteer experience.

My point is that being conservative is important because you don't know where life is going to take you and moving is a big hassle if life intervenes.