Anonymous
Post 01/21/2018 18:37     Subject: Re:Shutdown Rhetoric
So now President Miller is blasting Graham, who is trying to get a deal.
I'd say the shutdown is on President Miller.
Anonymous
Post 01/21/2018 18:37     Subject: Re:Shutdown Rhetoric
From what Lindsay Graham says this is Stephen's Shutdown (Stephen Miller that is).
http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/370006-graham-stephen-miller-makes-immigration-deal-impossible

How did this young guy whose email screeds about immigration used to be deleted by House Republican staffers (when he worked for Sessions as a staffer) get to be so powerful?
Anonymous
Post 01/21/2018 18:29     Subject: Re:Shutdown Rhetoric
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Which is worse - thinking that having control means having control or not know that Senate rules require 60 votes on cloture?


Trump has full control of the outcome. Schumer will cave because his bluff has now been called and he had no strategy prepared for this. He arrogantly assumed Trump and McConnell would cave and he should have known better.

Dems lose.


The only leverage Schumer has is the shutdown. Now he has used all his chips. There will not be a DACA deal until the shutdown is over.
Anonymous
Post 01/21/2018 18:14     Subject: Shutdown Rhetoric
What was the final shutdown vote count - 50-49?

Graham says he has 5 more Dems in favor of the new Feb 8 proposal (which includes some promise re DACA voting - but from what I can tell doesn't lay out a DACA solution). And the CT Dem senator was just on tv very very cautiously saying he's consider it. So looks like they could be up to 56. Don't follow politics much routinely but doesn't his seem like it ends tonight? How hard can it be to get 4 more?
Anonymous
Post 01/21/2018 17:33     Subject: Shutdown Rhetoric
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:There's ALREADY a deal to fund the government. It included DACA & CHIP. Both sides made concessions. Trump was going to sign it. He then backed out during his "shithole" rant in favor of an extremist position written by white nationalists.

THAT is what caused the TrumpShutdown

Yes. Everyone who continues to argue on this thread about schumer’s Lack of negotiating position, or that the Democrats are the arbiters of this shutdown, need to read this ten times and get it through their heads.


If this is true then there is no reason to insist that CR DACA and CHIP be linked. Pass the CR and then move on to other business. The problem is that it's not true.


McConnell lied to Sen Flake.
McConnell lied to Sen Collins.

These two lies allowed the horrid tax bill to pass.

There is no honor with McConnell and his promises, which is why the other Senators felt compelled to tie popular bills like DACA and CHIP to the CR.


Frankly, they were stupid to believe him.

Which is why we don’t believe him now. Dems will not budge, they need their base to make these local special elections happen like VA and AL.
Anonymous
Post 01/21/2018 17:09     Subject: Shutdown Rhetoric
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:There's ALREADY a deal to fund the government. It included DACA & CHIP. Both sides made concessions. Trump was going to sign it. He then backed out during his "shithole" rant in favor of an extremist position written by white nationalists.

THAT is what caused the TrumpShutdown

Yes. Everyone who continues to argue on this thread about schumer’s Lack of negotiating position, or that the Democrats are the arbiters of this shutdown, need to read this ten times and get it through their heads.


If this is true then there is no reason to insist that CR DACA and CHIP be linked. Pass the CR and then move on to other business. The problem is that it's not true.


McConnell lied to Sen Flake.
McConnell lied to Sen Collins.

These two lies allowed the horrid tax bill to pass.

There is no honor with McConnell and his promises, which is why the other Senators felt compelled to tie popular bills like DACA and CHIP to the CR.


Frankly, they were stupid to believe him.
Anonymous
Post 01/21/2018 17:04     Subject: Re:Shutdown Rhetoric
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Which is worse - thinking that having control means having control or not know that Senate rules require 60 votes on cloture?


Trump has full control of the outcome. Schumer will cave because his bluff has now been called and he had no strategy prepared for this. He arrogantly assumed Trump and McConnell would cave and he should have known better.

Dems lose.


To be frank, Republicans caved for so long, everyone forgot otherwise. I welcome the change and Schumer being kicked in the ass.



Right. But this is a totally self inflicted wound on Schumers part. This was a fight that only happened because the dems have no leadership, no policy, and have marginalized themselves as a national party. They've walked out onto a leftist ledge and don't know how to walk it back. America is doing just fine with Trump and the left hates his guts because he's an old white male capitalist who speaks his mind and takes his pussy where he can find it.


WRONG.

Trump had a deal on Friday. Why did he backtrack on it?

No Trump supporter has yet answered that question on this thread. Why did Trump go back on his word? He had a deal in hand, he then changed his mind. WHY?


I believe a previous post indicated that John Kelly played a role in killing it.


And Miller, as well.


The issue is Trump THE PERSON will meet with someone like Schumer and realize that saving DACA is incredibly easy and yeah we can do it for the wall. Then he is happy and thinks it's a win win- save DACA, get the promised wall. Bingo.

Then he gets around a GOPer who has to remind him that's not the GOP platform and AS PRESIDENT, he switches his position. He has no clear opinion or position on this because he doesn't actually know or care about this stuff. So he can be and is swayed by basically whoever last spoke to him.


Wrong again. If the republicans cave to the democrats it means they can be.blackmailed in the future with this kind of linkage.

MCConnell can wait forever as he showed with the supreme court. Schumer can't. The democrats will cave and whine about what a bully /Russian/mentally unfit person Trump is.

But they'll cave.





Nope. The base told them not to cave this time. Keep dreaming.
Anonymous
Post 01/21/2018 17:02     Subject: Re:Shutdown Rhetoric
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Which is worse - thinking that having control means having control or not know that Senate rules require 60 votes on cloture?


Trump has full control of the outcome. Schumer will cave because his bluff has now been called and he had no strategy prepared for this. He arrogantly assumed Trump and McConnell would cave and he should have known better.

Dems lose.


To be frank, Republicans caved for so long, everyone forgot otherwise. I welcome the change and Schumer being kicked in the ass.



Right. But this is a totally self inflicted wound on Schumers part. This was a fight that only happened because the dems have no leadership, no policy, and have marginalized themselves as a national party. They've walked out onto a leftist ledge and don't know how to walk it back. America is doing just fine with Trump and the left hates his guts because he's an old white male capitalist who speaks his mind and takes his pussy where he can find it.


WRONG.

Trump had a deal on Friday. Why did he backtrack on it?

No Trump supporter has yet answered that question on this thread. Why did Trump go back on his word? He had a deal in hand, he then changed his mind. WHY?


I believe a previous post indicated that John Kelly played a role in killing it.


And Miller, as well.


The issue is Trump THE PERSON will meet with someone like Schumer and realize that saving DACA is incredibly easy and yeah we can do it for the wall. Then he is happy and thinks it's a win win- save DACA, get the promised wall. Bingo.

Then he gets around a GOPer who has to remind him that's not the GOP platform and AS PRESIDENT, he switches his position. He has no clear opinion or position on this because he doesn't actually know or care about this stuff. So he can be and is swayed by basically whoever last spoke to him.


Wrong again. If the republicans cave to the democrats it means they can be.blackmailed in the future with this kind of linkage.

MCConnell can wait forever as he showed with the supreme court. Schumer can't. The democrats will cave and whine about what a bully /Russian/mentally unfit person Trump is.

But they'll cave.



Anonymous
Post 01/21/2018 16:59     Subject: Shutdown Rhetoric
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Trump needs to start- rightly- calling Schumer the senator from the Mexican states.

People are catching on to the unholy leftis alliance.

Schumer is standing for what his US citizen constituents want — 1) DACA compromise, 2) not to pay for a useless wall.

Wasn’t Mexico supposed to pay for the wall?



Working class Americans don’t want 80 dollar/day illegal labor. You do for your mansion. Go visit the fire halls in small town USA. You are an elitist like Schumer.


DP... The hundreds of thousands of American businesses that keep employing them obviously still want them. Need to acknowledge that and sort that out somehow.



Sorry, I don’t care about business that take advantage of this black market. MAGA


You are talking about farmers and small businesses all throughout the heartland. Seems you are the elitist who hates the heartland now.




Well, I am married to a hispanic, so I don't feel badly about the "brown person" stuff. And I grew up on and still own a farm so that elitist stuff doesn't tag me.

And I think Trump is a big hypocrite, so that doesn't rattle me either. I just want the border secured and illegal immigration stopped. Legal immigration -- especially merit based -- is great! Then, for me, MAGA is complete.


Better tell your hispanic spouse to carry proof of citizenship. ICE is out there asking for it.

She doesn't realize the MAGA crowd doesn't differentiate between "good" Hispanics like her husband and criminals who should be deported. They hate them all equally because they're brown.


Yep. And it's going to be her karma. I am willing to bet money that her spouse will be harassed by ICE soon. And I won't be sorry, TBH.
Anonymous
Post 01/21/2018 16:55     Subject: Shutdown Rhetoric
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Trump needs to start- rightly- calling Schumer the senator from the Mexican states.

People are catching on to the unholy leftis alliance.

Schumer is standing for what his US citizen constituents want — 1) DACA compromise, 2) not to pay for a useless wall.

Wasn’t Mexico supposed to pay for the wall?



Working class Americans don’t want 80 dollar/day illegal labor. You do for your mansion. Go visit the fire halls in small town USA. You are an elitist like Schumer.


DP... The hundreds of thousands of American businesses that keep employing them obviously still want them. Need to acknowledge that and sort that out somehow.



Sorry, I don’t care about business that take advantage of this black market. MAGA


You are talking about farmers and small businesses all throughout the heartland. Seems you are the elitist who hates the heartland now.




Well, I am married to a hispanic, so I don't feel badly about the "brown person" stuff. And I grew up on and still own a farm so that elitist stuff doesn't tag me.

And I think Trump is a big hypocrite, so that doesn't rattle me either. I just want the border secured and illegal immigration stopped. Legal immigration -- especially merit based -- is great! Then, for me, MAGA is complete.


Better tell your hispanic spouse to carry proof of citizenship. ICE is out there asking for it.

She doesn't realize the MAGA crowd doesn't differentiate between "good" Hispanics like her husband and criminals who should be deported. They hate them all equally because they're brown.
Anonymous
Post 01/21/2018 16:53     Subject: Re:Shutdown Rhetoric
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Which is worse - thinking that having control means having control or not know that Senate rules require 60 votes on cloture?


Trump has full control of the outcome. Schumer will cave because his bluff has now been called and he had no strategy prepared for this. He arrogantly assumed Trump and McConnell would cave and he should have known better.

Dems lose.


To be frank, Republicans caved for so long, everyone forgot otherwise. I welcome the change and Schumer being kicked in the ass.



Right. But this is a totally self inflicted wound on Schumers part. This was a fight that only happened because the dems have no leadership, no policy, and have marginalized themselves as a national party. They've walked out onto a leftist ledge and don't know how to walk it back. America is doing just fine with Trump and the left hates his guts because he's an old white male capitalist who speaks his mind and takes his pussy where he can find it.


WRONG.

Trump had a deal on Friday. Why did he backtrack on it?

No Trump supporter has yet answered that question on this thread. Why did Trump go back on his word? He had a deal in hand, he then changed his mind. WHY?


I believe a previous post indicated that John Kelly played a role in killing it.


And Miller, as well.


The issue is Trump THE PERSON will meet with someone like Schumer and realize that saving DACA is incredibly easy and yeah we can do it for the wall. Then he is happy and thinks it's a win win- save DACA, get the promised wall. Bingo.

Then he gets around a GOPer who has to remind him that's not the GOP platform and AS PRESIDENT, he switches his position. He has no clear opinion or position on this because he doesn't actually know or care about this stuff. So he can be and is swayed by basically whoever last spoke to him.
Anonymous
Post 01/21/2018 16:53     Subject: Shutdown Rhetoric
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Trump needs to start- rightly- calling Schumer the senator from the Mexican states.

People are catching on to the unholy leftis alliance.

Schumer is standing for what his US citizen constituents want — 1) DACA compromise, 2) not to pay for a useless wall.

Wasn’t Mexico supposed to pay for the wall?



Working class Americans don’t want 80 dollar/day illegal labor. You do for your mansion. Go visit the fire halls in small town USA. You are an elitist like Schumer.


mandate E-VERIFY
NO Chain Migration
No Diversity Lottery
Hire US Citizens first
Stop the Silicon Valley take over of the democratic party


Did you tell Trump? He's asking for foreign worker visas at Mar a Lago. Hypocrites, both of you.
Anonymous
Post 01/21/2018 16:51     Subject: Shutdown Rhetoric
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Trump needs to start- rightly- calling Schumer the senator from the Mexican states.

People are catching on to the unholy leftis alliance.

Schumer is standing for what his US citizen constituents want — 1) DACA compromise, 2) not to pay for a useless wall.

Wasn’t Mexico supposed to pay for the wall?



Working class Americans don’t want 80 dollar/day illegal labor. You do for your mansion. Go visit the fire halls in small town USA. You are an elitist like Schumer.


DP... The hundreds of thousands of American businesses that keep employing them obviously still want them. Need to acknowledge that and sort that out somehow.



Sorry, I don’t care about business that take advantage of this black market. MAGA


You are talking about farmers and small businesses all throughout the heartland. Seems you are the elitist who hates the heartland now.




Well, I am married to a hispanic, so I don't feel badly about the "brown person" stuff. And I grew up on and still own a farm so that elitist stuff doesn't tag me.

And I think Trump is a big hypocrite, so that doesn't rattle me either. I just want the border secured and illegal immigration stopped. Legal immigration -- especially merit based -- is great! Then, for me, MAGA is complete.


Better tell your hispanic spouse to carry proof of citizenship. ICE is out there asking for it.
Anonymous
Post 01/21/2018 16:49     Subject: Shutdown Rhetoric
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Why should the Dems give in? Did you Rs say the same about the Tea Partiers who held out causing the last shut down?


They should give in because they are fighting a.pointless unwinnable fight that even Schumer knows he can't win. He can't win because there is no policy reason to shut down the government over DACA. The dems conceded the Wall so they've already lost. This is all about Schumers ego. No one outside of NY cares about Schumer.

You keep
Posting the same thing and seem to care a heckuva lot about Schumer. Are you a NYer?
Anonymous
Post 01/21/2018 16:48     Subject: Re:Shutdown Rhetoric
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Which is worse - thinking that having control means having control or not know that Senate rules require 60 votes on cloture?


Trump has full control of the outcome. Schumer will cave because his bluff has now been called and he had no strategy prepared for this. He arrogantly assumed Trump and McConnell would cave and he should have known better.

Dems lose.


To be frank, Republicans caved for so long, everyone forgot otherwise. I welcome the change and Schumer being kicked in the ass.



Right. But this is a totally self inflicted wound on Schumers part. This was a fight that only happened because the dems have no leadership, no policy, and have marginalized themselves as a national party. They've walked out onto a leftist ledge and don't know how to walk it back. America is doing just fine with Trump and the left hates his guts because he's an old white male capitalist who speaks his mind and takes his pussy where he can find it.


WRONG.

Trump had a deal on Friday. Why did he backtrack on it?

No Trump supporter has yet answered that question on this thread. Why did Trump go back on his word? He had a deal in hand, he then changed his mind. WHY?


I believe a previous post indicated that John Kelly played a role in killing it.


And Miller, as well.