^LOL

I don't think this is what 11:28 meant.

Text messaging, youtube, and TI-84 graphing calculators have done more to "dumb down" America than any teacher or school could ever do.

IMHO, continuing to fight for improvement and holding officials accountable and responsible sure beats giving in to flawed complacency, mediocrity, sweeping everything under the rug and pretending everything is fine as we waltz down the path of a dumbed down America.

Only if this is done in a way that makes sense.

And you are overstating that we are a "dumbed down America". The comparisons to other countries don't hold water. Many of their systems don't come close to doing what ours does.

Anonymous wrote:

Why do the feds have to fix everything? Shouldn't state and local officials be the front line, shouldn't they be invested in fixing things? And if the problems were already so apparent, why wasn't it fixed sooner? NCLB happened because the perspective was that state and local government wasn't doing enough. And here, 14 years into NCLB, state and local administrations still aren't doing enough...

But apparently the grand solution is to do away with testing and just ignore the problem?

Apparently the grand solution is to keep testing (but use different tests), point out the problems which are rampant, and keep complaining that the state and local governments are hopelessly flawed?

IMHO, continuing to fight for improvement and holding officials accountable and responsible sure beats giving in to flawed complacency, mediocrity, sweeping everything under the rug and pretending everything is fine as we waltz down the path of a dumbed down America.

Anonymous wrote:

Why do the feds have to fix everything? Shouldn't state and local officials be the front line, shouldn't they be invested in fixing things? And if the problems were already so apparent, why wasn't it fixed sooner? NCLB happened because the perspective was that state and local government wasn't doing enough. And here, 14 years into NCLB, state and local administrations still aren't doing enough...

But apparently the grand solution is to do away with testing and just ignore the problem?

Apparently the grand solution is to keep testing (but use different tests), point out the problems which are rampant, and keep complaining that the state and local governments are hopelessly flawed?

So what should the grand solution be?

Why do the feds have to fix everything?

Because they do a great job of fixing things.

Why do the feds have to fix everything? Shouldn't state and local officials be the front line, shouldn't they be invested in fixing things? And if the problems were already so apparent, why wasn't it fixed sooner? NCLB happened because the perspective was that state and local government wasn't doing enough. And here, 14 years into NCLB, state and local administrations still aren't doing enough...

But apparently the grand solution is to do away with testing and just ignore the problem?

Apparently the grand solution is to keep testing (but use different tests), point out the problems which are rampant, and keep complaining that the state and local governments are hopelessly flawed?

Anonymous wrote:

They have poor administration and management, poor choices of curriculum and textbooks, and generally are not good at implementation. Getting rid of the testing requirement does not suddenly fix those schools, it only sweeps the problems under the rug. All you would be doing is hiding the problem and pretending it doesn't exist.

So what do you do after you know the problem exists? I mean, what do the feds do (because they are the ones who require this testing)?

What is the end goal for how to use the tests to improve (because if it's just pointing out problems, well, you just spent a lot of money pointing out problems that were already apparent through other tests and other analysis).

Why do the feds have to fix everything? Shouldn't state and local officials be the front line, shouldn't they be invested in fixing things? And if the problems were already so apparent, why wasn't it fixed sooner? NCLB happened because the perspective was that state and local government wasn't doing enough. And here, 14 years into NCLB, state and local administrations still aren't doing enough...

But apparently the grand solution is to do away with testing and just ignore the problem?

Anonymous wrote:
The answer is to bring in a private takeover company or to close the school. First offer tutoring (through companies that the government has approved) or "choice" for students to go to a different school. Also choose good textbooks and curriculum (Common Core aligned is the best).

That's the "market-based" approach. It hasn't worked, and it won't work. Schools don't improve when people try to run them for profit. They also don't improve when they close.

The answer is to bring in a private takeover company or to close the school. First offer tutoring (through companies that the government has approved) or "choice" for students to go to a different school. Also choose good textbooks and curriculum (Common Core aligned is the best).

Anonymous wrote:

They have poor administration and management, poor choices of curriculum and textbooks, and generally are not good at implementation. Getting rid of the testing requirement does not suddenly fix those schools, it only sweeps the problems under the rug. All you would be doing is hiding the problem and pretending it doesn't exist.

So what do you do after you know the problem exists? I mean, what do the feds do (because they are the ones who require this testing)?

What is the end goal for how to use the tests to improve (because if it's just pointing out problems, well, you just spent a lot of money pointing out problems that were already apparent through other tests and other analysis).

What can the feds do?

I don't agree that the problems were already apparent through other tests and other analysis. I agree that the big question is what to do with the results of the testing, once you have the results. But we definitely know more about the schools due to NCLB than we used to know.

They have poor administration and management, poor choices of curriculum and textbooks, and generally are not good at implementation. Getting rid of the testing requirement does not suddenly fix those schools, it only sweeps the problems under the rug. All you would be doing is hiding the problem and pretending it doesn't exist.

So what do you do after you know the problem exists? I mean, what do the feds do (because they are the ones who require this testing)?

What is the end goal for how to use the tests to improve (because if it's just pointing out problems, well, you just spent a lot of money pointing out problems that were already apparent through other tests and other analysis).

The stress coming out of the testing requirement isn't the cause of the problems, it's a symptom. Some schools struggle with the testing requirement because those schools are fundamentally flawed. They have poor administration and management, poor choices of curriculum and textbooks, and generally are not good at implementation. Getting rid of the testing requirement does not suddenly fix those schools, it only sweeps the problems under the rug. All you would be doing is hiding the problem and pretending it doesn't exist.

So, don't punish everyone with these tests year after year that take up tens of hours of time. If a school has been shown to be "not flawed", why make it go through all this? If there are some "bad" schools out there, let them take the tests and focus on improving them. Don't paint every school in the whole USA with the same brush. There are great schools that are being made worse by this testing (note the New Jersey school where 35 teachers signed a letter---it's hardly a "failing" school). Why should they have to spend hours on these tests? What good does it do for them? It's a huge waste of time and money. Don't you agree?

Anonymous wrote:

One can only surmise that this was intended as a joke but of course the "behind closed doors" was already debunked a hundred times over.

That's the joke. Why did the committee members have to sign confidentiality agreements? Why don't they post the results of their surveys? Why don't they post anything concrete?

SRSLY, You really need to lay off of the "closed door conspiracy" stuff. It really DOES NOT help the anti-CC cause.

Anonymous wrote:

2. Testing. However, the requirement for testing comes from the No Child Left Behind Act, which predates the Common Core standards. If the Common Core standards went away tomorrow, there would still be a testing requirement.

Yes, we have to get rid of the testing requirement. NOW.

The stress coming out of the testing requirement isn't the cause of the problems, it's a symptom. Some schools struggle with the testing requirement because those schools are fundamentally flawed. They have poor administration and management, poor choices of curriculum and textbooks, and generally are not good at implementation. Getting rid of the testing requirement does not suddenly fix those schools, it only sweeps the problems under the rug. All you would be doing is hiding the problem and pretending it doesn't exist.