Anonymous
Post 08/29/2021 21:11     Subject: What happened to this California family?
Anonymous wrote:If they were hot, wouldn’t they have been able to just get in the river to cool off?

I wonder if they got hot, dehydrated, lost and disoriented.

Very sad outcome.


The river had toxic algae blooms, so maybe they were scared off by that. I think their best bet was to stay by the river where it was presumably 20-30 degrees cooler then hiked back in the evening, but maybe the dog and the baby were already in bad shape by then so they tried to get to the car as fast as possible .
Anonymous
Post 08/29/2021 21:07     Subject: What happened to this California family?
Anonymous wrote:Absolutely no reason for them to take a baby out in that heat. That itself was negligent. Who takes a baby out for an hours long hike with no shade, when they know the temperature would be over 100 degrees?

That is poor parenting.


Why would you assume that the baby wasn't shaded?
Anonymous
Post 08/29/2021 21:06     Subject: What happened to this California family?
Absolutely no reason for them to take a baby out in that heat. That itself was negligent. Who takes a baby out for an hours long hike with no shade, when they know the temperature would be over 100 degrees?

That is poor parenting.
Anonymous
Post 08/29/2021 21:06     Subject: What happened to this California family?
Anonymous wrote:Cannot look away from this thread. At first I was totally on the MS train but if they indeed tried to hike the entire 8 mile loop it was surely heat related. Rule of thumb is a mile per hour. That would have had them hiking for at least 7 hours. Too long. Too hot. The poor baby and dog.


+1. If the reports are right, that they started around 8am and hiked the full 8-mile loop, there's no way heat wasn't a factor. There may have been other contributors - illness from toxic algae slowing them down, minor injury on the trail - but I have to believe it was ultimately the heat.

What I don't know (and we may never know) is what got them into that situation in the first place. Unaware of the lack of trees on that final stretch since the fires? Set out on the wrong trail? Just plain overconfidence and poor decision? That may never be clear.
Anonymous
Post 08/29/2021 21:04     Subject: What happened to this California family?
If they were hot, wouldn’t they have been able to just get in the river to cool off?

I wonder if they got hot, dehydrated, lost and disoriented.

Very sad outcome.
Anonymous
Post 08/29/2021 21:02     Subject: What happened to this California family?
Anonymous wrote:How hot was it there the day they died?
Why would anyone go hiking for 8 miles with a little 1-yr old baby?
And why would they hike with a baby in the heat at all?

No way you can properly prepare for hiking 8 hours with a baby, and so so safely. Especially not in the middle of summer.

Hiking in America has gotten out of control. So many people get killed and injured every year in America from hiking. 99% of people are very inexperienced hikers and can find themselves in very real and immediate danger faster than they know. And to involve kids?? Crazy.


They hit the trail near 9AM and by midday the temperatures were hovering between 103F - 108F.
Anonymous
Post 08/29/2021 21:02     Subject: What happened to this California family?
If it was a heat-related death, why wouldn’t the medical examiner have picked up on that? Seems like that would be fairly obvious if the organs shut down due to heat exhaustion.

Unless you have a poorly trained ME.
Anonymous
Post 08/29/2021 21:01     Subject: What happened to this California family?
I just don’t understand why the police would act like it was a big mystery if it really was heat stroke…surely that would have been one of their top theories. And especially after the autopsies, wouldn’t they have some idea that heat stroke had occurred?
Anonymous
Post 08/29/2021 21:00     Subject: What happened to this California family?
Anonymous wrote:I understand why it's being proposed but the heat stroke theory doesn't ring true to me. All dropped dead within feet of each other? If one was in distress, wouldn't everyone stop and rest? Wouldn't the dog have run on? Just doesn't make sense.


My guess is that's exactly what they did. Unfortunately, in 100+ degree heat with no shade, stopping to rest won't help. You need to cool down the core body temperature - and there simply isn't any way to do that when the surrounding air is hotter than the body.

So, they all stop to rest... But it doesn't help the person in distress, and sitting in the heat drives the rest into distress also.
Anonymous
Post 08/29/2021 20:55     Subject: What happened to this California family?
How hot was it there the day they died?
Why would anyone go hiking for 8 miles with a little 1-yr old baby?
And why would they hike with a baby in the heat at all?

No way you can properly prepare for hiking 8 hours with a baby, and so so safely. Especially not in the middle of summer.

Hiking in America has gotten out of control. So many people get killed and injured every year in America from hiking. 99% of people are very inexperienced hikers and can find themselves in very real and immediate danger faster than they know. And to involve kids?? Crazy.
Anonymous
Post 08/29/2021 20:47     Subject: What happened to this California family?
Cannot look away from this thread. At first I was totally on the MS train but if they indeed tried to hike the entire 8 mile loop it was surely heat related. Rule of thumb is a mile per hour. That would have had them hiking for at least 7 hours. Too long. Too hot. The poor baby and dog.
Anonymous
Post 08/29/2021 20:28     Subject: What happened to this California family?
Anonymous wrote:I find heat stroke hard to believe. If these folks were experienced hikers at ALL they knew to pack plenty of water. We hike in Maine FFS and over pack water.


So I hike in CT and when we had the baby who became a toddler…I packed less water for us because it would be too heavy in the backpack and we’d take turns with the baby. Yes, dumb on our end. I learned plenty from this thread but just so you know there is objective common sense and practical common sense.
Anonymous
Post 08/29/2021 20:21     Subject: What happened to this California family?
Anonymous wrote:I find heat stroke hard to believe. If these folks were experienced hikers at ALL they knew to pack plenty of water. We hike in Maine FFS and over pack water.


have you read some of the articles shared on heat stroke? Eye opening. Water does little/nothing to help. Your organs cook from the inside.
Anonymous
Post 08/29/2021 19:39     Subject: What happened to this California family?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I think the fact that there were no obvious signs of poisoning or trauma to any of the bodies points more toward heat exhaustion than murder-suicide.

If it is heat exhaustion, I agree with others that theorize that the dog was struggling at some point (I think it would have survived--or would not have been found near its humans bodies. The instinct survival of a healthy dog would have kicked-in.) The dad tried to carry the dog (maybe gave the baby to mom which contributed to her exhaustion).

My guess is that the dad sat down and refused to move due to heat exhaustion. Maybe mom went to get help or maybe she was wandering in delirium. Sad.

The sheriff's office seems to think they hiked nearly the entire 8.5 mile loop which doesn't support the murder suicide theory much. This is not how most folks would choose to kill themselves and their families.


The dog can't struggle or have survival instinct if its attached by a lead. It literally couldn't escape.


Dogs can get away, when they're tied. It's hard to believe that a healthy 8 year old dog would just lay down and die.

Which is why the police aren't believing it.


No they can't. Especially with these knew handless hiking leads. Considering he had the baby and the dog I'd bet this is what he was using.

Anonymous
Post 08/29/2021 19:31     Subject: What happened to this California family?
Many years ago my BF at the time and I were hiking in Zion in in July. We were extremely experienced hikers. He was what I would consider a wilderness expert. It was insanely hot but we had enough water, thankfully. Despite that, we experienced heat stroke to the point that I started hallucinating. It was crazy. One minute we were fine and the next I was babbling like a lunatic. To this day, I only have a vague recollection of how we got out and I’ll be forever grateful to the NPS.