Anonymous
Post 01/21/2018 16:48     Subject: Re:Shutdown Rhetoric
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Which is worse - thinking that having control means having control or not know that Senate rules require 60 votes on cloture?


Trump has full control of the outcome. Schumer will cave because his bluff has now been called and he had no strategy prepared for this. He arrogantly assumed Trump and McConnell would cave and he should have known better.

Dems lose.


To be frank, Republicans caved for so long, everyone forgot otherwise. I welcome the change and Schumer being kicked in the ass.



Right. But this is a totally self inflicted wound on Schumers part. This was a fight that only happened because the dems have no leadership, no policy, and have marginalized themselves as a national party. They've walked out onto a leftist ledge and don't know how to walk it back. America is doing just fine with Trump and the left hates his guts because he's an old white male capitalist who speaks his mind and takes his pussy where he can find it.


WRONG.

Trump had a deal on Friday. Why did he backtrack on it?

No Trump supporter has yet answered that question on this thread. Why did Trump go back on his word? He had a deal in hand, he then changed his mind. WHY?


I believe a previous post indicated that John Kelly played a role in killing it.
Anonymous
Post 01/21/2018 16:48     Subject: Shutdown Rhetoric
Procedural question: if a CR passes the Senate tonight, will the House take it up at 2am or 7am? Or later? And then will Trump sign it sometime Monday? I believe he is still in town, not in Florida or elsewhere.
Anonymous
Post 01/21/2018 16:46     Subject: Shutdown Rhetoric
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I’m a liberal and want help for the dreamers but don’t think this shut down is worth it. You shouldn’t shut down the government to support people that are not voting constituents. At best it will do nothing because they can’t vote and it has the potential to cost you the next election.


I kind of agree, but am tired of the he Dems being the only ones who have to give in while the are dig in and refuse to budge. Do you think the Dems should give in on CHIP too?


The budget fully funds CHIP for 6 years. Am I wrong about that?


The vote isn't over the budget. McConnell is 5 months behind on a budget.


http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/18/politics/house-votes-government-shutdown/index.html

The CR funds CHIP for 6 years.


Dems got their CHIP, can bring up DACA again in a few weeks when the CR runs out. Seems like they got a good deal, why won’t they take it?

So that we can do this all over again and Democrats get blamed for shutting it down that time?
Anonymous
Post 01/21/2018 16:44     Subject: Shutdown Rhetoric
Why are they voting on a CR with a Thursday deadline (2/8) rather than Friday?
Anonymous
Post 01/21/2018 16:42     Subject: Re:Shutdown Rhetoric
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Which is worse - thinking that having control means having control or not know that Senate rules require 60 votes on cloture?


Trump has full control of the outcome. Schumer will cave because his bluff has now been called and he had no strategy prepared for this. He arrogantly assumed Trump and McConnell would cave and he should have known better.

Dems lose.


To be frank, Republicans caved for so long, everyone forgot otherwise. I welcome the change and Schumer being kicked in the ass.



Right. But this is a totally self inflicted wound on Schumers part. This was a fight that only happened because the dems have no leadership, no policy, and have marginalized themselves as a national party. They've walked out onto a leftist ledge and don't know how to walk it back. America is doing just fine with Trump and the left hates his guts because he's an old white male capitalist who speaks his mind and takes his pussy where he can find it.


WRONG.

Trump had a deal on Friday. Why did he backtrack on it?

No Trump supporter has yet answered that question on this thread. Why did Trump go back on his word? He had a deal in hand, he then changed his mind. WHY?
Anonymous
Post 01/21/2018 16:22     Subject: Shutdown Rhetoric
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It's cute how liberals pretend to love all these illegal immigrants yet obsess over not living near them and making sure their kids don't go to schools with any.


DACA are not illegal immigrants, no matter how much the Stephen Millers of the world would have you believe.


Yes they are. Were they born here? Were they naturalized? No -- then they're illegals -- with work permits but still illegals.

Technically, they're illegal but with temporary protected status. That will end on March 5, and they can be deported. We need some rules:

1) College graduates and military members (the latter is only 1% of DACA) get permanent resident status. No citizenship. Unfair to legal immigrants.
2) Any loser over the age of 21 who couldn't even finish high school - out. They were given a chance, at a cost to American citizens, and they blew it. Bye-bye.
3) High school graduates - must enroll in or have completed a terminal AA degree or a technical training course (HVAC, plumbing, etc.) for resident status.

Furthermore, if there is a conviction for a misdemeanor (or worse), immediate deportation. They have to understand they are guests of this country and must live squeaky clean lives. (Based on the outrage I saw directed at Pelosi, the entitled brats don't yet get this.)




All of this works in theory but will never work in practice. You know it'll be -- oh Jose did [something bad] but you don't understand, it's been so hard on him since Jose Sr. got deported.

Also don't understand the liberal rhetoric of -- these kids are sooooo successful, we MUST keep them. Um -- I'm sure you keep highlighting the handful of med students and ivy grads or West Point appointees, but let's be honest, there's no way that's all or most of this population. Certainly not in the broader 3.6mil, but even in the protected 800k -- I don't think they're any more successful than regular citizen kids or the kids of legal immigrants. Sure they had to be in school at the time they applied, but let's not act like they're all Princeton grads -- I'm fairly sure most are Joe (Jose?) Schmoe at JMU studying communications.
Anonymous
Post 01/21/2018 16:20     Subject: Re:Shutdown Rhetoric
Anonymous wrote:Does anyone think something real is going to happen over the next couple of days unless:

1. McConnell agrees to ‘go nuclear’
2. Schumer rolls over and agree to allows for a separate bill, which will promptly be ignored to death by the House (ala 2013)

Pence has now taken Mother over to Israel for a visit and handshake with Bibi, after totally patronizing King Abdullah. There is no way McConnell will make a move without the insurance of Pence’s tie-breaker vote.


Although we bystanders could see this shutdown coming days, weeks, months away, I think it really did catch McConnell, Trump, Schumer, and Ryan by surprise. Or at least some of them. So a clean CR until early February might pass tonight, to get past this shutdown. Of course, then I don't know what will prevent another shutdown in February...
Anonymous
Post 01/21/2018 16:20     Subject: Re:Shutdown Rhetoric
Anonymous wrote:Does anyone think something real is going to happen over the next couple of days unless:

1. McConnell agrees to ‘go nuclear’
2. Schumer rolls over and agree to allows for a separate bill, which will promptly be ignored to death by the House (ala 2013)

Pence has now taken Mother over to Israel for a visit and handshake with Bibi, after totally patronizing King Abdullah. There is no way McConnell will make a move without the insurance of Pence’s tie-breaker vote.


Schumer pretty much has rolled. $1.6B for the wall and immigration reform for DACA and CHIP. White House won't accept it.
Anonymous
Post 01/21/2018 16:19     Subject: Shutdown Rhetoric
Anonymous wrote:Lindsay Graham eviscerated Stephen Miller.



They all should. It's clear the Senate has to figure out a way to get the votes to cut out the White House. Trump is so ill informed he goes where the wind blows and can't be relied upon to hold his word. Miller, ELECTED TO SERVE BY NOBODY, is a white supremacist calling the show. It's sick.
Anonymous
Post 01/21/2018 16:16     Subject: Re:Shutdown Rhetoric
Does anyone think something real is going to happen over the next couple of days unless:

1. McConnell agrees to ‘go nuclear’
2. Schumer rolls over and agree to allows for a separate bill, which will promptly be ignored to death by the House (ala 2013)

Pence has now taken Mother over to Israel for a visit and handshake with Bibi, after totally patronizing King Abdullah. There is no way McConnell will make a move without the insurance of Pence’s tie-breaker vote.
Anonymous
Post 01/21/2018 16:09     Subject: Shutdown Rhetoric
Anonymous wrote:Lindsay Graham eviscerated Stephen Miller.



Too little, too late.
Anonymous
Post 01/21/2018 16:07     Subject: Shutdown Rhetoric
Lindsay Graham eviscerated Stephen Miller.

Anonymous
Post 01/21/2018 16:06     Subject: Shutdown Rhetoric
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It's cute how liberals pretend to love all these illegal immigrants yet obsess over not living near them and making sure their kids don't go to schools with any.


DACA are not illegal immigrants, no matter how much the Stephen Millers of the world would have you believe.


Yes they are. Were they born here? Were they naturalized? No -- then they're illegals -- with work permits but still illegals.

Technically, they're illegal but with temporary protected status. That will end on March 5, and they can be deported. We need some rules:

1) College graduates and military members (the latter is only 1% of DACA) get permanent resident status. No citizenship. Unfair to legal immigrants.
2) Any loser over the age of 21 who couldn't even finish high school - out. They were given a chance, at a cost to American citizens, and they blew it. Bye-bye.
3) High school graduates - must enroll in or have completed a terminal AA degree or a technical training course (HVAC, plumbing, etc.) for resident status.

Furthermore, if there is a conviction for a misdemeanor (or worse), immediate deportation. They have to understand they are guests of this country and must live squeaky clean lives. (Based on the outrage I saw directed at Pelosi, the entitled brats don't yet get this.)


Anonymous
Post 01/21/2018 15:58     Subject: Re:Shutdown Rhetoric
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Those suggesting the Dems “give in” — do you sincerely feel that the GOP will bring up DACA for discussion and bipartisan compromise after a clean CR, and before the last minute/March?


So if they don't, they don't. Sorry but they ARE illegal and they've gotten to live here their whole lives, if they have to sweat it out to March then that's a small price to pay for life in America, free k-12 education, work authorizations etc. We know they're not going anywhere so if it takes until the last day so what.


Hmm I wouldnt be so sure. I don’t think we should reward breaking laws and lots of republicans in congress agree with me.


They won't leave. Come on these people are masters at living illegally in a nation. They'll just go underground/under the table like their parents.


You are unbelievably stupid. Deplorably stupid. Irretrievably stupid.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2017/09/07/the-mind-boggling-cost-of-daca-repeal/amp/?__twitter_impression=true


What does economic cost of deporting dreamers have to do with the fact that they won't leave. Come on -- you know they won't. Sure ICE has addresses and can find them and if/when it does, that person leaves. But overall -- I don't see these people saying -- oh, now I have no status, I should leave. If work authorizations are gone, they'll work illegally like their parents.
Anonymous
Post 01/21/2018 15:57     Subject: Shutdown Rhetoric
Anonymous wrote:Chip is mainly used by illegals anyway. Reduce illegal immigration, reduce the need for Chip.


This is so false. Most of the CHIP users are in heartland red states.