Anonymous wrote:Are we supposed to assume that ATNs call on the election is the only one that matters? There are presumably other networks. This was a stumbling block for me last night.

The point is that to ATN's viewers it's the only call that matters, and much like our own current landscape, actual facts aren't as important as the narrative.

I also found this episode very stressful to watch/a likely glimpse of the future.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NPR got it exactly right:

"The tension in Succession has always been that everybody knew these people were terrible, but they were also human. They could be, in some moments, kind or funny or even insightful. They could certainly be legitimately in pain. Still terrible people — but rounded-out human characters with stories and arcs. This episode is the one where I think the fundamental point of the entire enterprise is made: Their complicated humanity is genuine but so what? Sad, jealous, hurt, abused, mistreated, conflicted, they are all these things. But they operate upon the wider world as instruments of destruction in the lives of real people, and in this episode, the magnitude of that destruction is pushed right up to the front edge of the stage."

Yes to all of this -- I can tell it's Linda Holmes without checking and she nails it.

Waiting for the posters who want to tell us all that the show "isn't that deep!" and that it's still fun to pick one of these grotesque humans and root for them to win. Or the poster who though Roman would make a fun dinner guest.

It's all fun and games until the little billionaire sociopaths destroy democracy and get a bunch of people killed. And even then, it's still a game to them.

Why do you even watch if you hate the show and everybody in it so much?

I love the show. I'm not a simpleton who needs all the characters in a story to be likable or sympathetic in order to get something out of the story itself.

Who exactly do you LIKE on the show, and why? I don't mean who do you find funny (I think they can all be quite funny) or whose story you are interested in (I find the story fascinating), I mean who do you actually like as in "I think this is a cool person and I would be friends with them in real life"?

Since you're lecturing me now. You're either making this up or reading far more into peoples' posts here than they're actually saying. I don't think anybody here actually *likes* or "would be friends with" ANY of them, except for maybe Willa and Tom, and even Tom dropped off the "like" list when he revealed his bad side. Nobody, but nobody, here has said they want to "friends" with Shiv or Roman or Kendall or Collin. Sure, one poster thought Roman would be fun to have over to dinner, but even that was because he's amusing to listen to, not because "I want to be BFFs with Roman."

It's a lesser of multiple evils thing, can you see that?

You don't seem to understand the difference between rooting for a character vs. actually "liking" them or "wanting to be friends" with them.

Which makes it strange that you keep coming on to lecture us all about fangirling the characters. I think I'll ignore you from now on.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are we supposed to assume that ATNs call on the election is the only one that matters? There are presumably other networks. This was a stumbling block for me last night.

Same here. ATN wanted to put some wind under Mencken's wings for the upcoming reckoning about Milwaukee. But presumably we'll hear more about both Milwaukee and the other networks' calls next week.

I don't think Tom will get fired over the call. Look at what happened over at Fox last presidential election, and I wouldn't say ATN's management and owners are better than at Fox. Tom's reputation will take a hit though. They'll probably fire the numbers guy who didn't want to call it.

Did you see the previews for next week? Everyone is blaming Tom.

ATN called it for Mencken in exchange for him to act like he wants it to be fair and go through the courts. So they will throw ATN under the bus.

What preview are you talking about? The one after the episode was all about the funeral. I don’t think Tom was even in the preview.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NPR got it exactly right:

"The tension in Succession has always been that everybody knew these people were terrible, but they were also human. They could be, in some moments, kind or funny or even insightful. They could certainly be legitimately in pain. Still terrible people — but rounded-out human characters with stories and arcs. This episode is the one where I think the fundamental point of the entire enterprise is made: Their complicated humanity is genuine but so what? Sad, jealous, hurt, abused, mistreated, conflicted, they are all these things. But they operate upon the wider world as instruments of destruction in the lives of real people, and in this episode, the magnitude of that destruction is pushed right up to the front edge of the stage."

Yes to all of this -- I can tell it's Linda Holmes without checking and she nails it.

Waiting for the posters who want to tell us all that the show "isn't that deep!" and that it's still fun to pick one of these grotesque humans and root for them to win. Or the poster who though Roman would make a fun dinner guest.

It's all fun and games until the little billionaire sociopaths destroy democracy and get a bunch of people killed. And even then, it's still a game to them.

Why do you even watch if you hate the show and everybody in it so much?

I love the show. I'm not a simpleton who needs all the characters in a story to be likable or sympathetic in order to get something out of the story itself.

Who exactly do you LIKE on the show, and why? I don't mean who do you find funny (I think they can all be quite funny) or whose story you are interested in (I find the story fascinating), I mean who do you actually like as in "I think this is a cool person and I would be friends with them in real life"?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are we supposed to assume that ATNs call on the election is the only one that matters? There are presumably other networks. This was a stumbling block for me last night.

Same here. ATN wanted to put some wind under Mencken's wings for the upcoming reckoning about Milwaukee. But presumably we'll hear more about both Milwaukee and the other networks' calls next week.

I don't think Tom will get fired over the call. Look at what happened over at Fox last presidential election, and I wouldn't say ATN's management and owners are better than at Fox. Tom's reputation will take a hit though. They'll probably fire the numbers guy who didn't want to call it.

Did you see the previews for next week? Everyone is blaming Tom.

ATN called it for Mencken in exchange for him to act like he wants it to be fair and go through the courts. So they will throw ATN under the bus.

Anonymous wrote:Are we supposed to assume that ATNs call on the election is the only one that matters? There are presumably other networks. This was a stumbling block for me last night.

Same here. ATN wanted to put some wind under Mencken's wings for the upcoming reckoning about Milwaukee. But presumably we'll hear more about both Milwaukee and the other networks' calls next week.

I don't think Tom will get fired over the call. Look at what happened over at Fox last presidential election, and I wouldn't say ATN's management and owners are better than at Fox. Tom's reputation will take a hit though. They'll probably fire the numbers guy who didn't want to call it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tom seemed really surprised about the pregnancy, I think. But I agree an abortion won't happen. Sure, Shiv could probably pay somebody enough to do it, even as far a long as she is. She might even be thinking about an abortion and she told Tom just to be extra cruel to him. But now that he knows, he can stop it, maybe legally (I'm not sure), maybe by telling her family or by threatening to leak to the news that she's having a late-term abortion. And Shiv knows this. So I don't think she would have told Tom unless she was planning to have the baby.

I like Willa more and more. She was supportive of Collin, but she also expressed her reservations about Mencken. At least as much as the spouse-and-former-escort of the least important sibling has any leeway to express reservations.

She wasn't just supportive of him, she was using him as her puppet. She knew that Connor staying in the race would help get a Democrat in the White House and she told him not to drop out (he said she was the only one he was listening to). Even though it cost them over $100 million. How could any far left democrat marry into that family. Total gold digger. I have zero respect for her.

At least she actually said out loud that Mencken would throw the country into chaos. She's not pretending to like Mencken.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tom seemed really surprised about the pregnancy, I think. But I agree an abortion won't happen. Sure, Shiv could probably pay somebody enough to do it, even as far a long as she is. She might even be thinking about an abortion and she told Tom just to be extra cruel to him. But now that he knows, he can stop it, maybe legally (I'm not sure), maybe by telling her family or by threatening to leak to the news that she's having a late-term abortion. And Shiv knows this. So I don't think she would have told Tom unless she was planning to have the baby.

I like Willa more and more. She was supportive of Collin, but she also expressed her reservations about Mencken. At least as much as the spouse-and-former-escort of the least important sibling has any leeway to express reservations.

She wasn't just supportive of him, she was using him as her puppet. She knew that Connor staying in the race would help get a Democrat in the White House and she told him not to drop out (he said she was the only one he was listening to). Even though it cost them over $100 million. How could any far left democrat marry into that family. Total gold digger. I have zero respect for her.

The $100 million was already spent by the day before the election. But good point that she used him to get a Democrat into the White House. She also wanted to avoid going to Oman with nobody but Collin to talk to. So she has multiple reasons to keep validating his decision to stay in the race.

Anonymous wrote:Tom seemed really surprised about the pregnancy, I think. But I agree an abortion won't happen. Sure, Shiv could probably pay somebody enough to do it, even as far a long as she is. She might even be thinking about an abortion and she told Tom just to be extra cruel to him. But now that he knows, he can stop it, maybe legally (I'm not sure), maybe by telling her family or by threatening to leak to the news that she's having a late-term abortion. And Shiv knows this. So I don't think she would have told Tom unless she was planning to have the baby.

I like Willa more and more. She was supportive of Collin, but she also expressed her reservations about Mencken. At least as much as the spouse-and-former-escort of the least important sibling has any leeway to express reservations.

What? In New York state, a man cannot legally prevent a woman from obtaining an abortion.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tom seemed really surprised about the pregnancy, I think. But I agree an abortion won't happen. Sure, Shiv could probably pay somebody enough to do it, even as far a long as she is. She might even be thinking about an abortion and she told Tom just to be extra cruel to him. But now that he knows, he can stop it, maybe legally (I'm not sure), maybe by telling her family or by threatening to leak to the news that she's having a late-term abortion. And Shiv knows this. So I don't think she would have told Tom unless she was planning to have the baby.

I like Willa more and more. She was supportive of Collin, but she also expressed her reservations about Mencken. At least as much as the spouse-and-former-escort of the least important sibling has any leeway to express reservations.

She wasn't just supportive of him, she was using him as her puppet. She knew that Connor staying in the race would help get a Democrat in the White House and she told him not to drop out (he said she was the only one he was listening to). Even though it cost them over $100 million. How could any far left democrat marry into that family. Total gold digger. I have zero respect for her.

She is a great character, and she and Con have the only actually supportive and loving relationship in the whole show.

Anonymous wrote:Tom seemed really surprised about the pregnancy, I think. But I agree an abortion won't happen. Sure, Shiv could probably pay somebody enough to do it, even as far a long as she is. She might even be thinking about an abortion and she told Tom just to be extra cruel to him. But now that he knows, he can stop it, maybe legally (I'm not sure), maybe by telling her family or by threatening to leak to the news that she's having a late-term abortion. And Shiv knows this. So I don't think she would have told Tom unless she was planning to have the baby.

I like Willa more and more. She was supportive of Collin, but she also expressed her reservations about Mencken. At least as much as the spouse-and-former-escort of the least important sibling has any leeway to express reservations.

She wasn't just supportive of him, she was using him as her puppet. She knew that Connor staying in the race would help get a Democrat in the White House and she told him not to drop out (he said she was the only one he was listening to). Even though it cost them over $100 million. How could any far left democrat marry into that family. Total gold digger. I have zero respect for her.

Anonymous wrote:Tom seemed really surprised about the pregnancy, I think. But I agree an abortion won't happen. Sure, Shiv could probably pay somebody enough to do it, even as far a long as she is. She might even be thinking about an abortion and she told Tom just to be extra cruel to him. But now that he knows, he can stop it, maybe legally (I'm not sure), maybe by telling her family or by threatening to leak to the news that she's having a late-term abortion. And Shiv knows this. So I don't think she would have told Tom unless she was planning to have the baby.

I like Willa more and more. She was supportive of Collin, but she also expressed her reservations about Mencken. At least as much as the spouse-and-former-escort of the least important sibling has any leeway to express reservations.

* Reservations about Jimenez, sorry

Tom seemed really surprised about the pregnancy, I think. But I agree an abortion won't happen. Sure, Shiv could probably pay somebody enough to do it, even as far a long as she is. She might even be thinking about an abortion and she told Tom just to be extra cruel to him. But now that he knows, he can stop it, maybe legally (I'm not sure), maybe by telling her family or by threatening to leak to the news that she's having a late-term abortion. And Shiv knows this. So I don't think she would have told Tom unless she was planning to have the baby.

I like Willa more and more. She was supportive of Collin, but she also expressed her reservations about Mencken. At least as much as the spouse-and-former-escort of the least important sibling has any leeway to express reservations.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NPR got it exactly right:

"The tension in Succession has always been that everybody knew these people were terrible, but they were also human. They could be, in some moments, kind or funny or even insightful. They could certainly be legitimately in pain. Still terrible people — but rounded-out human characters with stories and arcs. This episode is the one where I think the fundamental point of the entire enterprise is made: Their complicated humanity is genuine but so what? Sad, jealous, hurt, abused, mistreated, conflicted, they are all these things. But they operate upon the wider world as instruments of destruction in the lives of real people, and in this episode, the magnitude of that destruction is pushed right up to the front edge of the stage."

Yes to all of this -- I can tell it's Linda Holmes without checking and she nails it.

Waiting for the posters who want to tell us all that the show "isn't that deep!" and that it's still fun to pick one of these grotesque humans and root for them to win. Or the poster who though Roman would make a fun dinner guest.

It's all fun and games until the little billionaire sociopaths destroy democracy and get a bunch of people killed. And even then, it's still a game to them.

Why do you even watch if you hate the show and everybody in it so much?

Anonymous wrote:Last night was Greg's greatest episode. Nearly every funny line was from his mouth. When he was trying to get his cousin's off the ATN floor was hilarious. A few funny lines also came from Connor. What is Willa's angle by encouraging him to stay in the election? Is she a democrat and wanted Jimenez to win?

This episode triggered my 2016 PTSD. Tom deserves to be fired. It's supposed to be his call and he made the wrong one by listening to the CEOs instead of doing what was best for ATN and himself. He is going to be dragged through the mud next week.

Next week is the funeral, so what will the final episode be???

Yes and so is her entire family!! They despise Menken.