My contention is not that the CC standards are bad per se, but that they are a waste of time and resources. Standards are not the crux of the problem. I support public education. I just don't believe the CC is where a lot of effort should be put.

Agree. And, who knew that the teacher's unions were right wingers?

As a historical note, Goebbels was the Third Reich's infamous Minister of Propaganda, he had a saying about propaganda - "repeat a lie often enough and people will believe it"

The lie: Common Core will improve American education. Who is the Goebbels here?

While posters haven't explicitly articulated this specific example, it's nonetheless quite clear that many of the anti-CC posters are coming from that right-wing group-think, particularly given that despite all of the emotional argument, they still haven't been able to give one specific, coherent example of a standard that is actually bad, or which actually goes against sound educational theory and principles. They just "know" it's bad, in large part because they've heard that message that it's bad repeated over and over and over again. As a historical note, Goebbels was the Third Reich's infamous Minister of Propaganda, he had a saying about propaganda - "repeat a lie often enough and people will believe it" - this is definitely how conservative media operates.

People on this board have posted specific reasons for problems with Common Core. If it is so good--why don't you tell why? Because the standards are "common" or "good" is not sufficient.

I, for one, am about as left leaning as anyone and I do not support the CC standards. I would never in my wildest dreams watch Fox News or be swayed by a "lie repeated time after time". I have never voted Republican in my life.

My contention is not that the CC standards are bad per se, but that they are a waste of time and resources. Standards are not the crux of the problem. I support public education. I just don't believe the CC is where a lot of effort should be put.

It amazes me that you believe that everyone who is anti-CC is "right wing". This is not a political thing at all. It's about education and how to make students learn more.

Anonymous wrote:

The issue is that the reasons people say they don't like Common Core either don't actually directly have anything to do with Common Core (i.e. problems with bad textbooks, lousy implementation, testing) or they simply aren't valid or were specifically intended to inflame (i.e. conservative websites saying CC "forces Islam on kids" - something that has zero merit or truth)

I have not read any poster on this thread state that. Have you?

These kinds of falsehoods and bullshit are all over mainstream conservative media, i.e. FOX News. http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/12/20/school-islamic-vocabulary-lesson-part-common-core-standards/

The reason many people are pissed off about Common Core is not the actual Common Core standard, it's the fabricated, non-existent Common Core bogeyman that conservative media keeps constructing with lie after lie.

While posters haven't explicitly articulated this specific example, it's nonetheless quite clear that many of the anti-CC posters are coming from that right-wing group-think, particularly given that despite all of the emotional argument, they still haven't been able to give one specific, coherent example of a standard that is actually bad, or which actually goes against sound educational theory and principles. They just "know" it's bad, in large part because they've heard that message that it's bad repeated over and over and over again. As a historical note, Goebbels was the Third Reich's infamous Minister of Propaganda, he had a saying about propaganda - "repeat a lie often enough and people will believe it" - this is definitely how conservative media operates.

Anonymous wrote:

There are other schools that need help. Whether the help should come in the form of standards is questionable. Some people believe these standards and tests will help. So far the NCLB testing has not helped a whole lot. It leads one to believe that other factors are strongly at play in the lack of achievement in these schools. Clearly the CC is no panacea. Let us hope that the CC debate does not distract us from really trying other creative solutions in these schools. Skills like motivation, persistence, self-esteem, time management and self control should probably be emphasized (see the GED comments above).

Had the Common Core standards been developed in a logical way with input from true experts, it might have been a good thing. However, they have ignored basic educational principles. It's a shame.

That's already been addressed about five times in this thread. Repeating "they had no input from experts bla bla bla" isn't going to cut it.

"Even the best possible standards cannot raise student literacy unless they are part of a larger strategy. Excellent standards are no more than a first step. Research by Grover Whitehurst and by Tom Loveless of the Brown Center on Educa­tion Policy at the Brookings Institution, for example, finds virtually no relationship between the quality of state education standards and the achievement test scores of students in the respective states. These and other studies offer little support for the expectation that even the fine standards developed by the NGA and the CCSSO will, by themselves, improve student learning."


This quote comes from a larger article:

http://www.brookings.edu/research/papers/2012/10/02-boost-literacy-haskins-sawhill

So . . . the federal government has found this problem between districts to be related to standards and has decided that it must rectify this "problem". The feds are also concerned about a student being at a disadvantage when competing at a national level for a college spot.

Is there data to support that problems with achievement are directly related to differences in standards in academics? Please source that.

It is a problem when one school district requires students to be able to do xyz, but another district doesn't. That becomes a problem when kids transfer districts and also puts one kid at a disadvantage over another when competing at a national level for college spots

So . . . the federal government has found this problem between districts to be related to standards and has decided that it must rectify this "problem". The feds are also concerned about a student being at a disadvantage when competing at a national level for a college spot.

??? Really??

It is a problem when one school district requires students to be able to do xyz, but another district doesn't. That becomes a problem when kids transfer districts and also puts one kid at a disadvantage over another when competing at a national level for college spots.

So, are you suggesting we make standards for sports?

Anonymous wrote:ps there is sometimes a problem with the science strands in high school. But, that is easily solved in the high school itself. Nothing to do with standards.

It is a problem when one school district requires students to be able to do xyz, but another district doesn't. That becomes a problem when kids transfer districts and also puts one kid at a disadvantage over another when competing at a national level for college spots.

ps there is sometimes a problem with the science strands in high school. But, that is easily solved in the high school itself. Nothing to do with standards.

Having common standards is about ensuring kids from one state can meet the same standards as a kid from another state, which addresses disparities in standards amongst the states. Some states may have had low standards, while others had higher standards. That kind of disparity is a disservice to kids from the lower-standard states.

Who better to address this than a teacher whose kids were always transferring in and out from different states? I asked a high school teacher who taught in DOD for years. This really was not a problem.

There are other schools that need help. Whether the help should come in the form of standards is questionable. Some people believe these standards and tests will help. So far the NCLB testing has not helped a whole lot. It leads one to believe that other factors are strongly at play in the lack of achievement in these schools. Clearly the CC is no panacea. Let us hope that the CC debate does not distract us from really trying other creative solutions in these schools. Skills like motivation, persistence, self-esteem, time management and self control should probably be emphasized (see the GED comments above).

Had the Common Core standards been developed in a logical way with input from true experts, it might have been a good thing. However, they have ignored basic educational principles. It's a shame.

Places like Mountain Brook High School do not need CC nor do they need the tests that come with it. They should not waste their time with it. There are other high schools like this in America. They don't need "fixing".

There are other schools that need help. Whether the help should come in the form of standards is questionable. Some people believe these standards and tests will help. So far the NCLB testing has not helped a whole lot. It leads one to believe that other factors are strongly at play in the lack of achievement in these schools. Clearly the CC is no panacea. Let us hope that the CC debate does not distract us from really trying other creative solutions in these schools. Skills like motivation, persistence, self-esteem, time management and self control should probably be emphasized (see the GED comments above).