Anonymous wrote:
I called you out. We can have a discussion, but it must be free of histrionics and unsubstantiated claims.

I reject your claim that IB% is a leading indicator of school improvement while feeder% is not. Please try to substantiate it. I know empirics are unavailable for your use, so I won't insist on them; instead, just provide a coherent logical chain that bolsters your claim.

What exactly do you reject, PP? Do you agree that increasing IB enrollment at a neighborhood MS is a leading indicator of improvement? Do you agree that increasing feeder enrollment is not a good proxy for increasing IB enrollment? Are you arguing that increasing feeder enrollment is as strong a leading indicator of improvement even if it does not reflect increasing IB enrollment?

Anonymous wrote:
In doing so, please note that for at least Key, Mann and Stoddert, these schools are almost entirely in-bounds. In light of this, is your argument based entirely around Hyde?

Actually, Key is 84% IB, Mann is 86% IB, and Stoddert is 81% IB. That translates to 61 OOB kids at Key, 40 at Mann, and 72 at Stoddert. And, as you note, Hyde is only 38% IB, which translates to 207 OOB kids.

Last's years 6th grade enrollment at Hardy was 110. So, the 27% feeder rate for 6th this year probably translates to about 30 kids. If we consider only OOB enrollment at Key, Mann and Stoddert last year, we have 173 kids. If we assume that those OOB kids are evenly distributed from K through 5, 29 of last year's 5th graders at just Key, Mann and Stoddert were OOB.

So, while not likely, it is possible that the feeder cohort entering 6th at Hardy this year consists almost entirely of OOB kids from Key, Mann and Stoddert. We don't even need to consider the OOB kids coming from Hyde.

My point is not that having 30 OOB kids from Key, Mann and Stoddert would not be a coup for Hardy. It is just that feeder enrollment is not a good proxy for IB enrollment due to the number of OOB kids at the feeder schools.

Anonymous wrote:
On a related note, these schools accept very few OOB students in later grades. Not none, but few. That means that the OOB students were likely in the school for almost their entire elementary education. So you cannot point to a difference in preparation.

That has not been my experience, PP. At our Hardy feeder, OOB enrollment was low in the early years (PK, K and 1), but increased in the middle years (2 and 3) and then stayed flat in the later years (while IB enrollment declined). Many of the OOB kids did not have the benefit of the strong program that our school offers in the early years.

Anonymous wrote:
It next appears that your argument is salvaged only by appealing to the different innate ability and family support (if they are different) of IB students and OOB student who enter these schools. Here you need to address the self-selection issue: OOB students whose parents commit to sending their students to relatively inaccessible schools likely score highly on the unobservables that underlie any claim pertaining to family support and, hence, innate ability (they're correlated). An OOB student at Key is not a random draw from the DCPS population. Very, very far from it.

Are you really arguing that the benefits of being born to parents wealthy enough to live IB for Key, Mann or Stoddert are entirely offset by being born to parents savvy enough to lottery for a spot at Key, Mann or Stoddert? That has not been my experience at our Hardy feeder. What evidence to you have to support your claim?

Anonymous wrote:
Yes, I'm an economist. While I prefer data, I at least demand rigorous reasoning.

My Ph.D. is not in economics, but I'll do my best.

Anonymous wrote:It's never a good idea for an organization to hide numbers because the public assumes the worst. I suspect the IB numbers are better than last year, but perhaps not as good as the principal hoped.

That acrid smell is from the numbers that are so over cooked that they are burning on the stove. Release them already!

Anonymous wrote:It says, "if helpful, please feel free bringing along your 5th grader..."

It would help to have proper English on the flyer.

OMG! I'm beginning to think that they should graduate Hardy's current enrollment, then close the school for a year or so while they find Michelle Rhee's big broom and fire a lot of the longtime teachers and staff, especially those who don't want change. Recruit a mostly new faculty and start completely over, with a largely IB enrollment. Maybe Ms. Pride can lead that radical transformation or perhaps new leadership is needed. But a bottom to top change seems needed.

It's never a good idea for an organization to hide numbers because the public assumes the worst. I suspect the IB numbers are better than last year, but perhaps not as good as the principal hoped.

Unless DCPS changes its entire reporting system to accommodate Hardy's principal, the IB vs. OOB numbers will be up on the website soon. If there is truly a wave of kids coming from feeders, it should provide at least some boost to the % of IB students. I believe both numbers are relevant -- % from feeders and % IB -- especially within the John Eaton community.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BTW how are those Hardy IB coming? They're taking an even longer time to cook than we anticipated!

Go away troll.

Here's your numbers: "27% of this year's 6th grade class come from Hardy's feeder
elementary schools while 14% are transfers from Charters,
Independent Schools or Out-of-State"

http://www.hardyms.org/ourpages/auto/2014/11/13/59992445/HardyTour17Nov2014_FINAL.pdf

"Feeder" does not equal "IB." The apparent reluctance to publish IB numbers and willingness to publish feeder numbers suggests that the IB numbers are not good.

Go away. Enough already.

--IB Mann (I include this so that OOB parents or condo dwellers at other feeder schools ("for whom Hardy is the only option they can afford," you say) do not get blamed for my disgust with these posts)

No, I will not go away.

Hardy is my IB school. As has been argued repeatedly on this thread, the IB percentage for the 6th grade at Hardy is a leading indicator of school improvement. The feeder percentage not so much.

Sometime in the not-so-distant future, we will have to choose between attending Hardy and applying elsewhere. If we choose to apply elsewhere, we will have to prepare for that sooner rather than later. We would like to know now if the Hardy turn-around has started.

We're three months into the school year. Why doesn't the school publish 6th grader IB percentage already and put an end to the speculation?

I called you out. We can have a discussion, but it must be free of histrionics and unsubstantiated claims.

I reject your claim that IB% is a leading indicator of school improvement while feeder% is not. Please try to substantiate it. I know empirics are unavailable for your use, so I won't insist on them; instead, just provide a coherent logical chain that bolsters your claim.

In doing so, please note that for at least Key, Mann and Stoddert, these schools are almost entirely in-bounds. In light of this, is your argument based entirely around Hyde?

On a related note, these schools accept very few OOB students in later grades. Not none, but few. That means that the OOB students were likely in the school for almost their entire elementary education. So you cannot point to a difference in preparation.

It next appears that your argument is salvaged only by appealing to the different innate ability and family support (if they are different) of IB students and OOB student who enter these schools. Here you need to address the self-selection issue: OOB students whose parents commit to sending their students to relatively inaccessible schools likely score highly on the unobservables that underlie any claim pertaining to family support and, hence, innate ability (they're correlated). An OOB student at Key is not a random draw from the DCPS population. Very, very far from it.

Yes, I'm an economist. While I prefer data, I at least demand rigorous reasoning.

I have no stake in this thread (kid attends IB for another school) but PP's argument is well-reasoned and deftly addresses the PP's concerns about IB percentage. At this point, PP, I think you can just drop the mic and walk away.

-another Ph.D. social sciences researcher

DCUM has been helpful to my decision-making in many ways: as a parent IB for Hardy, the fruity-nuts on the BASIS threads have crossed that school off my list. While Latin is a nice school, it is small, far away, and a crapshoot to get in. Hardy is becoming an easy decision, imo.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BTW how are those Hardy IB coming? They're taking an even longer time to cook than we anticipated!

Go away troll.

Here's your numbers: "27% of this year's 6th grade class come from Hardy's feeder
elementary schools while 14% are transfers from Charters,
Independent Schools or Out-of-State"

http://www.hardyms.org/ourpages/auto/2014/11/13/59992445/HardyTour17Nov2014_FINAL.pdf

"Feeder" does not equal "IB." The apparent reluctance to publish IB numbers and willingness to publish feeder numbers suggests that the IB numbers are not good.

Not really. The parents who prepared this flyer (IB prospective parents) consulted with the school about the numbers , and decided to respectfully endorse the school policy which is to release data about the school constituency (feeder schools) instead of sub-grouping (IB vs OB). The reasons why P. Pride adopted this policy is quite obvious and has been presented by several PPs. It has nothing to do with hiding unfavorable numbers. Rather it has to do with her need and plan to respect current parents' commitment and sensitivities, given that, for instance, several PTO members are OB from feeder schools. As she stated during the open house tour , she is an educator, not a marketing strategy. I can ensure you that parents attending the open house tour appreciated her presentation and word, and were given all the needed information they need to make an informed choice about the school.

As a prospective Hardy parents (IB if you care) I have the highest appreciation of Ms Pride's plans and consideration, in order of importance, of: 1) current Hardy students and parents; 2) serious prospective parents who attend her open house meetings; 3) DCUM bloggers and website browsers.

My daughter will be a Hardy student next year.

I can appreciate her not wanting to offend OOB feeder families. In the end, the FARMs percentage is a much better predictor of school quality anyway. (It looks like 56% for last year's 6th grade class.)

A large wave of Stoddert students to Hardy next year too.

Stoddert IB parent and PTO member.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BTW how are those Hardy IB coming? They're taking an even longer time to cook than we anticipated!

Go away troll.

Here's your numbers: "27% of this year's 6th grade class come from Hardy's feeder
elementary schools while 14% are transfers from Charters,
Independent Schools or Out-of-State"

http://www.hardyms.org/ourpages/auto/2014/11/13/59992445/HardyTour17Nov2014_FINAL.pdf

"Feeder" does not equal "IB." The apparent reluctance to publish IB numbers and willingness to publish feeder numbers suggests that the IB numbers are not good.

Go away. Enough already.

--IB Mann (I include this so that OOB parents or condo dwellers at other feeder schools ("for whom Hardy is the only option they can afford," you say) do not get blamed for my disgust with these posts)

No, I will not go away.

Hardy is my IB school. As has been argued repeatedly on this thread, the IB percentage for the 6th grade at Hardy is a leading indicator of school improvement. The feeder percentage not so much.

Sometime in the not-so-distant future, we will have to choose between attending Hardy and applying elsewhere. If we choose to apply elsewhere, we will have to prepare for that sooner rather than later. We would like to know now if the Hardy turn-around has started.

We're three months into the school year. Why doesn't the school publish 6th grader IB percentage already and put an end to the speculation?

I called you out. We can have a discussion, but it must be free of histrionics and unsubstantiated claims.

I reject your claim that IB% is a leading indicator of school improvement while feeder% is not. Please try to substantiate it. I know empirics are unavailable for your use, so I won't insist on them; instead, just provide a coherent logical chain that bolsters your claim.

In doing so, please note that for at least Key, Mann and Stoddert, these schools are almost entirely in-bounds. In light of this, is your argument based entirely around Hyde?

On a related note, these schools accept very few OOB students in later grades. Not none, but few. That means that the OOB students were likely in the school for almost their entire elementary education. So you cannot point to a difference in preparation.

It next appears that your argument is salvaged only by appealing to the different innate ability and family support (if they are different) of IB students and OOB student who enter these schools. Here you need to address the self-selection issue: OOB students whose parents commit to sending their students to relatively inaccessible schools likely score highly on the unobservables that underlie any claim pertaining to family support and, hence, innate ability (they're correlated). An OOB student at Key is not a random draw from the DCPS population. Very, very far from it.

Yes, I'm an economist. While I prefer data, I at least demand rigorous reasoning.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BTW how are those Hardy IB coming? They're taking an even longer time to cook than we anticipated!

Go away troll.

Here's your numbers: "27% of this year's 6th grade class come from Hardy's feeder
elementary schools while 14% are transfers from Charters,
Independent Schools or Out-of-State"

http://www.hardyms.org/ourpages/auto/2014/11/13/59992445/HardyTour17Nov2014_FINAL.pdf

"Feeder" does not equal "IB." The apparent reluctance to publish IB numbers and willingness to publish feeder numbers suggests that the IB numbers are not good.

Go away. Enough already.

--IB Mann (I include this so that OOB parents or condo dwellers at other feeder schools ("for whom Hardy is the only option they can afford," you say) do not get blamed for my disgust with these posts)

No, I will not go away.

Hardy is my IB school. As has been argued repeatedly on this thread, the IB percentage for the 6th grade at Hardy is a leading indicator of school improvement. The feeder percentage not so much.

Sometime in the not-so-distant future, we will have to choose between attending Hardy and applying elsewhere. If we choose to apply elsewhere, we will have to prepare for that sooner rather than later. We would like to know now if the Hardy turn-around has started.

We're three months into the school year. Why doesn't the school publish 6th grader IB percentage already and put an end to the speculation?

PP, as part of your sooner than later strategy, have you visited the school during one of the recent open houses? I think you have not, otherwise you'd speak differently.

As the PP said, I truly believe this school is not for you. So I'd suggest that you sooner than later start planning moving to Tenleytown or to Montgomery County or to Chinatown (for Basis) . Or re-do your budget to make room for a private school fees. There's lots of excellent private school in the area, with relatively low fees (Holy Trinity is just a couple of blocks south). Truly, you do not belong to this thread.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BTW how are those Hardy IB coming? They're taking an even longer time to cook than we anticipated!

Go away troll.

Here's your numbers: "27% of this year's 6th grade class come from Hardy's feeder
elementary schools while 14% are transfers from Charters,
Independent Schools or Out-of-State"

http://www.hardyms.org/ourpages/auto/2014/11/13/59992445/HardyTour17Nov2014_FINAL.pdf

"Feeder" does not equal "IB." The apparent reluctance to publish IB numbers and willingness to publish feeder numbers suggests that the IB numbers are not good.

Go away. Enough already.

--IB Mann (I include this so that OOB parents or condo dwellers at other feeder schools ("for whom Hardy is the only option they can afford," you say) do not get blamed for my disgust with these posts)

No, I will not go away.

Hardy is my IB school. As has been argued repeatedly on this thread, the IB percentage for the 6th grade at Hardy is a leading indicator of school improvement. The feeder percentage not so much.

Sometime in the not-so-distant future, we will have to choose between attending Hardy and applying elsewhere. If we choose to apply elsewhere, we will have to prepare for that sooner rather than later. We would like to know now if the Hardy turn-around has started.

We're three months into the school year. Why doesn't the school publish 6th grader IB percentage already and put an end to the speculation?

Gosh, I really hope this dumb parent stays away from Hardy. She/he does not read or intends what others are suggesting... she just continues her way.. Last thing Hardy needs are parents like this!!!! Please do not release IB data so that hopefully she will stay away from the school!!..

Hardy parent (from next year)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BTW how are those Hardy IB coming? They're taking an even longer time to cook than we anticipated!

Go away troll.

Here's your numbers: "27% of this year's 6th grade class come from Hardy's feeder
elementary schools while 14% are transfers from Charters,
Independent Schools or Out-of-State"

http://www.hardyms.org/ourpages/auto/2014/11/13/59992445/HardyTour17Nov2014_FINAL.pdf

"Feeder" does not equal "IB." The apparent reluctance to publish IB numbers and willingness to publish feeder numbers suggests that the IB numbers are not good.

Go away. Enough already.

--IB Mann (I include this so that OOB parents or condo dwellers at other feeder schools ("for whom Hardy is the only option they can afford," you say) do not get blamed for my disgust with these posts)

No, I will not go away.

Hardy is my IB school. As has been argued repeatedly on this thread, the IB percentage for the 6th grade at Hardy is a leading indicator of school improvement. The feeder percentage not so much.

Sometime in the not-so-distant future, we will have to choose between attending Hardy and applying elsewhere. If we choose to apply elsewhere, we will have to prepare for that sooner rather than later. We would like to know now if the Hardy turn-around has started.

We're three months into the school year. Why doesn't the school publish 6th grader IB percentage already and put an end to the speculation?

PP poster here. Let me add that from what I see at Hyde ES, there will be about 30 families sending their kids to Hardy next year.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BTW how are those Hardy IB coming? They're taking an even longer time to cook than we anticipated!

Go away troll.

Here's your numbers: "27% of this year's 6th grade class come from Hardy's feeder
elementary schools while 14% are transfers from Charters,
Independent Schools or Out-of-State"

http://www.hardyms.org/ourpages/auto/2014/11/13/59992445/HardyTour17Nov2014_FINAL.pdf

"Feeder" does not equal "IB." The apparent reluctance to publish IB numbers and willingness to publish feeder numbers suggests that the IB numbers are not good.

Not really. The parents who prepared this flyer (IB prospective parents) consulted with the school about the numbers , and decided to respectfully endorse the school policy which is to release data about the school constituency (feeder schools) instead of sub-grouping (IB vs OB). The reasons why P. Pride adopted this policy is quite obvious and has been presented by several PPs. It has nothing to do with hiding unfavorable numbers. Rather it has to do with her need and plan to respect current parents' commitment and sensitivities, given that, for instance, several PTO members are OB from feeder schools. As she stated during the open house tour , she is an educator, not a marketing strategy. I can ensure you that parents attending the open house tour appreciated her presentation and word, and were given all the needed information they need to make an informed choice about the school.

As a prospective Hardy parents (IB if you care) I have the highest appreciation of Ms Pride's plans and consideration, in order of importance, of: 1) current Hardy students and parents; 2) serious prospective parents who attend her open house meetings; 3) DCUM bloggers and website browsers.

My daughter will be a Hardy student next year.