Anonymous
Post 10/15/2021 19:10     Subject: Bad Art Friend
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

I just got around to reading the article, and while I feel for Dawn and everything she's been through... I could not stop thinking about the fact that she reached out to the people in the Facebook group she created (to praise her kidney donation) to ask them why they weren't liking her posts more?


Yeah, so that was needy and showed poor boundaries and is not great social media behavior.
But that’s also all it was: Socially awkward.
It was not bullying, it was not wholesale lying, it was not plagiarism.

- Dawn defender


Again this is completely inaccurate. Completely. How many times are we going to do this in this thread?
Anonymous
Post 10/15/2021 18:53     Subject: Bad Art Friend
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

Sorry if this was covered already, but how did Dawn's attorney get all of the emails and texts from Larsen & friends?

I don't think it was covered in the article?


It was subpoenaed when Larson filed her lawsuit.


More specifically Larson was forced to turn them over as relevant during discovery based in her lawsuit. Dawn did not subpoena them
Anonymous
Post 10/15/2021 18:50     Subject: Bad Art Friend
Anonymous wrote:

Sorry if this was covered already, but how did Dawn's attorney get all of the emails and texts from Larsen & friends?

I don't think it was covered in the article?


It was subpoenaed when Larson filed her lawsuit.
Anonymous
Post 10/15/2021 18:40     Subject: Bad Art Friend
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

I just got around to reading the article, and while I feel for Dawn and everything she's been through... I could not stop thinking about the fact that she reached out to the people in the Facebook group she created (to praise her kidney donation) to ask them why they weren't liking her posts more?


That turns out to be explainable in context - she was beginning to realize how Sonya Larson and the others were gaslighting her. There are some good timelines out there with evidence that explain it.


Ah, that makes so much more sense, thanks.

I wish it were explained like that in the NYT article, because that really tainted a lot of the empathy I would have ordinarily had for someone like Dawn... but instead, all it did was make me start thinking about "who would actually do that??" & I wad thinking did she actually donate her kidney JUST for attention?

Putting that at the beginning of the article, with no further explanation was really wrong, as it completely colored my perception of Dawn. 😕


Anonymous
Post 10/15/2021 18:23     Subject: Bad Art Friend


Sorry if this was covered already, but how did Dawn's attorney get all of the emails and texts from Larsen & friends?

I don't think it was covered in the article?
Anonymous
Post 10/15/2021 18:23     Subject: Bad Art Friend
Personally, I agree with this take -

To my mind “The Bad Art Friend” is a clear case of Larson being kind of a jerk who didn’t do her due diligence in adapting reality to fiction, and Dorland being a narcissistic nightmare.

https://www.gawker.com/culture/great-artists-steal
Anonymous
Post 10/15/2021 18:22     Subject: Bad Art Friend
Anonymous wrote:

I just got around to reading the article, and while I feel for Dawn and everything she's been through... I could not stop thinking about the fact that she reached out to the people in the Facebook group she created (to praise her kidney donation) to ask them why they weren't liking her posts more?


Yeah, so that was needy and showed poor boundaries and is not great social media behavior.
But that’s also all it was: Socially awkward.
It was not bullying, it was not wholesale lying, it was not plagiarism.

- Dawn defender
Anonymous
Post 10/15/2021 18:21     Subject: Bad Art Friend
Anonymous wrote:

I just got around to reading the article, and while I feel for Dawn and everything she's been through... I could not stop thinking about the fact that she reached out to the people in the Facebook group she created (to praise her kidney donation) to ask them why they weren't liking her posts more?


That turns out to be explainable in context - she was beginning to realize how Sonya Larson and the others were gaslighting her. There are some good timelines out there with evidence that explain it.
Anonymous
Post 10/15/2021 18:18     Subject: Bad Art Friend


I just got around to reading the article, and while I feel for Dawn and everything she's been through... I could not stop thinking about the fact that she reached out to the people in the Facebook group she created (to praise her kidney donation) to ask them why they weren't liking her posts more?
Anonymous
Post 10/15/2021 17:43     Subject: Re:Bad Art Friend
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Man, den of vipers sounds about right:



He's been mass blocking kidneygate account followers, which now includes a number of journos and nonfiction writers but the litfic crowd is almost uniformly steering clear of the evidence.


he blocked me and I don't even follow him. Seems the loudest voices don't want anyone to hear any voices but their own.
Anonymous
Post 10/15/2021 17:30     Subject: Bad Art Friend
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I'm pp who just posted the AWP, and I thought for sure that it was crazy to say that Ng was somehow really crafting this, but it sounds like there is enough issue in that community, which is pretty sad. I really hope it is a productive conversation.


Eh, it will be the same conversation it always is. These conferences always have lots of panels like this and they are pretty repetitive. People are always talking about furthering the conversation but mostly people just talk in circles.


If that's the case, what a colossal waste of time. If Chee is done with the incessant chatter, then maybe he should tell his pal Larson to take the damn letter out of her story. Then it would quite literally be over.


Agreed. I know people in real life who are friends with Chee. They seem to find him a wonderful person, but I admit his social media presence irritates me. He's a little too self-righteous or something.

I think he doesn't want people discussing this story because it throws too much light on how literary cliques work.


And these are his friends.

How to Be a Writer on Social Media: Advice from Roxane Gay, Alexander Chee, Celeste Ng, and Adam M. Grant
https://lithub.com/how-to-be-a-writer-on-social-media-advice-from-roxane-gay-alexander-chee-celeste-ng-and-adam-m-grant/

GrubStreet conference organized by SL, featuring Alexander Chee (and Jennifer DeLeon)
https://www.harvardmagazine.com/2021/03/h2-write-it

Alexander Chee Praises Everything I Never Told You in The New York Times Book Review
https://www.penguin.com/newsroom/alexander-chee-praises-everything-never-told-new-york-times-book-review/

Writers of Color Roundtable: With Alexander Chee, Jennifer De Leon, Kaitlyn Greenidge, Mira Jacob, Celeste Ng, Regina Brooks, & Emi Ikkanda. At GrubStreet’s Muse & the Marketplace 2016 literary conference, Boston
https://larsonya.com/media/

This is a very tight community. They are annoyed this "scandal" has not blown over by now.


It's far from over, I think. GrubStreet has a lot of cleanup work to do, and I don't see how any of these people (links below) stand to keep their jobs. I think Castellani is definitely out, with the whole threat-making, and Alison Murphy should definitely be gone. Sonya Larson, I just don't know how she even still has a job with blatant proof of plagiarism. Who would want to take classes there, knowing that a director-level person will lift your work as they see fit? Plus, the apology that Becky Tuch wrote, while appreciated that she took the effort, just seems lacking.

https://piperbookblog.com/bad-art-friend-author-becky-tuch-apologizes-and-leaves-chunky-monkeys-writing-group/
https://piperbookblog.com/bad-art-friend-alison-murphy-chunky-monkeys-member-is-a-big-problem-for-grubstreet-writers-organization/
https://piperbookblog.com/author-christopher-castellani-vows-to-exact-revenge-on-fellow-writer-and-grubstreet-instructor/
Anonymous
Post 10/15/2021 17:23     Subject: Re:Bad Art Friend
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Man, den of vipers sounds about right:



He's been mass blocking kidneygate account followers, which now includes a number of journos and nonfiction writers but the litfic crowd is almost uniformly steering clear of the evidence.


It is totally nuts to me how the lit fic crowd is completely ignoring hard evidence. Like, the facts aren't in question here! Why are you pretending they are?
Anonymous
Post 10/15/2021 17:10     Subject: Re:Bad Art Friend
Anonymous wrote:


Anyone want to tell her that it's not just a black person being singled out? White people are calling out the actions of white people, too. This Piper blog is nailing them all. And it has nothing to do about race.

https://piperbookblog.com/bad-art-friend-author-becky-tuch-apologizes-and-leaves-chunky-monkeys-writing-group/
https://piperbookblog.com/bad-art-friend-alison-murphy-chunky-monkeys-member-is-a-big-problem-for-grubstreet-writers-organization/
https://piperbookblog.com/author-christopher-castellani-vows-to-exact-revenge-on-fellow-writer-and-grubstreet-instructor/
Anonymous
Post 10/15/2021 17:01     Subject: Re:Bad Art Friend
Anonymous
Post 10/15/2021 16:50     Subject: Re:Bad Art Friend
Anonymous wrote:Man, den of vipers sounds about right:



He's been mass blocking kidneygate account followers, which now includes a number of journos and nonfiction writers but the litfic crowd is almost uniformly steering clear of the evidence.