Anonymous
09/22/2015 23:43
Subject: Re:HS Party with Alcohol... Death
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote: I don't disagree that a hosting parent should be held criminally liable but don't think for a second that teens won't find somewhere else to go. They told us they would- let's listen to them.
What are they telling you, you should do? Host another party?
Read the students' own words from the blog (quoted a few times and cited upthread). And stop acting like an idiot. This subject is too important to suffer fools like you.
I did read it. Did you? What's your takeaway? Keep your kid on the right track? That will probably help a lot of parents.
Yeah, I am one of your fools who has never drove drunk. Are all your friends alcoholics? Perhaps you should broaden your circle of friends if you believe everyone has broken the law with drunken driving.
I think you've had a few too many yourself.
The kids said they'd find alcohol and somewhere to drink it. That's what they said and that's the takeaway.
I'm one of the pps who said I've never driven drunk or with a drunk driver. Are you always such an ass?
Anonymous
09/22/2015 23:35
Subject: Re:HS Party with Alcohol... Death
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote: I don't disagree that a hosting parent should be held criminally liable but don't think for a second that teens won't find somewhere else to go. They told us they would- let's listen to them.
What are they telling you, you should do? Host another party?
Read the students' own words from the blog (quoted a few times and cited upthread). And stop acting like an idiot. This subject is too important to suffer fools like you.
I did read it. Did you? What's your takeaway? Keep your kid on the right track? That will probably help a lot of parents.
Yeah, I am one of your fools who has never drove drunk. Are all your friends alcoholics? Perhaps you should broaden your circle of friends if you believe everyone has broken the law with drunken driving.
Anonymous
09/22/2015 23:20
Subject: Re:HS Party with Alcohol... Death
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote: I don't disagree that a hosting parent should be held criminally liable but don't think for a second that teens won't find somewhere else to go. They told us they would- let's listen to them.
What are they telling you, you should do? Host another party?
Read the students' own words from the blog (quoted a few times and cited upthread). And stop acting like an idiot. This subject is too important to suffer fools like you.
Anonymous
09/22/2015 23:17
Subject: Re:HS Party with Alcohol... Death
Anonymous wrote: I don't disagree that a hosting parent should be held criminally liable but don't think for a second that teens won't find somewhere else to go. They told us they would- let's listen to them.
What are they telling you, you should do? Host another party?
Anonymous
09/22/2015 23:06
Subject: Re:HS Party with Alcohol... Death
I don't disagree that a hosting parent should be held criminally liable but don't think for a second that teens won't find somewhere else to go. They told us they would- let's listen to them.
Anonymous
09/22/2015 22:57
Subject: Re:HS Party with Alcohol... Death
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Parents can pat themselves on the back for the petition. But consider a response from a Wooten student:
I keep thinking about this comment. If I were not to post it, I would be holding these agitating feelings in, in addition to my immense sadness from the accident. So here it goes. This dream world that you write about is quite shallow. You are writing about one of your students parents, so how could you publicize such hatred towards the family of one of your many children because you claim your students are your children. Family does not make things worse for their own family, but they do support them no matter the mistake. Mistake may be a too easily dismissible word, but there is no other word to describe the situation. As a friend to the kids who died and a person on the inside, I know where I am coming from. You are not making this healing process any better with these messages, not only is it too soon, but Wootton students stand together, so most would not agree with your harshness towards a peer's parent even though their parent may agree with you. Therefore, you are creating more division between youth and guardians, the exact opposite of what is needed. A parent allowed or didn't allow alcohol in their house, either way alcohol was present. But with the history of the people at this high school binge drinking, if a house were not accessible with parents present, then a house would be found where the parents may be out of town, and I know this because, once again, I am on the inside. It is not about who did this because blaming people does not change anything, but it is about voicing the right message. The message to keep your own kids on track so they don't make bad decisions because natural selection is unfortunately how our world works. This may be harsh, but it is the truth.
Teens will find and drink alcohol.
So we should facilitate that?
Different poster here. This is the point. Yes, kids will find something to drink. But there's a difference when they know it's wrong and not sanctioned by adults. They drink less. When the parents act like it's all OK or even worse, supply the stuff, there's no reason for them to moderate their drinking at all.
And it's doubly important today to monitor and try to prevent underage drinking. They are all smoking pot, too, and mixing pot and alcohol does nutty stuff. Maybe they only had two drinks. Not so bad. But add the pot in the vaporizer, and it's an accident waiting to happen. And you can't smell pot in a vape pen. Much easier to smoke in secret these days. Much easier....
Anonymous
09/22/2015 22:55
Subject: Re:HS Party with Alcohol... Death
Anonymous wrote:And still, the teens drank the alcohol and the teens got into a car with an impaired driver. There's plenty of blame to go around. Personally I'd blame myself too if I were the parent of a teen in that car.
We get it. No apologies from mr lawyer. He innocently allowed his baby girl to throw a wild booze party, and watched them all get drunk and drive away. Were Mr. and Mrs. Saltzman too drunk to take the kids' car keys? Or to call 911 like any responsible parent would do? Why did he do nothing when he saw all these kids getting drunk in his house? Why? Did he call up one SINGLE parent to come get their intoxicated underaged child from his house?
F'ing NO. His egregious neglect that night was criminal.
And this man is allowed to practice LAW??? That needs to STOP.
Anonymous
09/22/2015 22:50
Subject: Re:HS Party with Alcohol... Death
Anonymous wrote:And still, the teens drank the alcohol and the teens got into a car with an impaired driver. There's plenty of blame to go around. Personally I'd blame myself too if I were the parent of a teen in that car.
But for the dad's negligence, they might not have done that. He gave them the opportunity and encouraged them - inexperienced, underage drinkers - to drink. And drive.
Sure, they made bad choices. But as a functioning responsible adult with a fully-developed brain, he should have known better. I hold him far more responsible.
Anonymous
09/22/2015 22:45
Subject: Re:HS Party with Alcohol... Death
Anonymous wrote:And still, the teens drank the alcohol and the teens got into a car with an impaired driver. There's plenty of blame to go around. Personally I'd blame myself too if I were the parent of a teen in that car.
+1 on that.
Anonymous
09/22/2015 22:38
Subject: Re:HS Party with Alcohol... Death
And add me to the pp's who have never driven drunk or with a drunk driver. And don't call me sanctimony: I know my teens drink.
Anonymous
09/22/2015 22:36
Subject: Re:HS Party with Alcohol... Death
And still, the teens drank the alcohol and the teens got into a car with an impaired driver. There's plenty of blame to go around. Personally I'd blame myself too if I were the parent of a teen in that car.
Anonymous
09/22/2015 22:32
Subject: HS Party with Alcohol... Death
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
1. How long do you think Kenny Saltzman should sit in the slammer for what he did to those kids, both those who survived and those who didn't?
2. I have never been driven by a drunk driver.
3. I have never driven a car after consuming alcohol.
So please take your sanctimonious bullshit defense someplace else.
What he did to those kids? Owned a house that there was a party with alcohol in, saw that there was a party with alcohol in it, and didn't shut the party down?
Morally, he should have acted differently. Legally, his actions were probably illegal (that's up to the prosecutor and judge/jury to decide). But he didn't do anything to those kids. What they did, they did to themselves.
He knowingly permitted them, underage teens, to consume alcohol - large quantities of it - in his home. In fact, he made a joking comment to one of them about the large amount of alcohol he was carrying into the house. He negligently and knowingly allowed teens to drink in his home, and then drive under the influence.
That is what he did to those kids.
Anonymous
09/22/2015 22:29
Subject: HS Party with Alcohol... Death
Anonymous wrote:Look. This whole thing comes down to bad luck.
I am sure there is not ONE poster here who has not A. Driven at our above the legal limit at some point in their lives and/or B. Gotten into a car with a driver who was at our above the legal limit. The sanctimonious attitude on here is laughable. The sooner you admit your own shortcomings, the sooner people can come together and fix what is wrong. Taking a holier-than-thou approach just makes you look like an asshole.
That said, I think Sam should go to jail for a long time as should Saltzman. I don't think the Murks owe it to anyone to talk about the mistakes their son made that night. You don't think that they are angry with their son's decisions that evening? Come on.
The Murks are right, laws need to change and parents need to wake up.
I am the PP who calls my kids' friends' parents before allowing them to attend parties.
I have never driven over the legal limit. Nor have I been in a car driven by a driver over the legal limit.
Some, maybe many of us just don't do these things.
Anonymous
09/22/2015 22:29
Subject: HS Party with Alcohol... Death
Anonymous wrote:Look. This whole thing comes down to bad luck.
I am sure there is not ONE poster here who has not A. Driven at our above the legal limit at some point in their lives and/or B. Gotten into a car with a driver who was at our above the legal limit. The sanctimonious attitude on here is laughable. The sooner you admit your own shortcomings, the sooner people can come together and fix what is wrong. Taking a holier-than-thou approach just makes you look like an asshole.
That said, I think Sam should go to jail for a long time as should Saltzman. I don't think the Murks owe it to anyone to talk about the mistakes their son made that night. You don't think that they are angry with their son's decisions that evening? Come on.
The Murks are right, laws need to change and parents need to wake up.
I disagree with most evey word you've said. Except I agree that parents need to wake up.
Anonymous
09/22/2015 22:26
Subject: HS Party with Alcohol... Death
Anonymous wrote:
1. How long do you think Kenny Saltzman should sit in the slammer for what he did to those kids, both those who survived and those who didn't?
2. I have never been driven by a drunk driver.
3. I have never driven a car after consuming alcohol.
So please take your sanctimonious bullshit defense someplace else.
What he did to those kids? Owned a house that there was a party with alcohol in, saw that there was a party with alcohol in it, and didn't shut the party down?
Morally, he should have acted differently. Legally, his actions were probably illegal (that's up to the prosecutor and judge/jury to decide). But he didn't do anything to those kids. What they did, they did to themselves.