Anonymous wrote:

"Peanuts" redundantly being spent in state A, state B, state C, district X, district Y, district Z, a thousand flowers blooming. As the saying goes, "a couple million here, a couple million there, and pretty soon you're talking real money." And that's what was ALREADY GOING ON prior to Common Core. The reality is that what you think was "peanuts" then gets multiplied a thousandfold at the state and local level and actually ends up costing far more than Common Core. Get past your myopia and look at the big picture. One set of standards is actually cheaper, more cost-effective and provides far greater ROI than the way it had been done prior with a thousand flowers blooming.

Not true. States were not spending that much money writing standards. What is your source?

Not any state individually, but take the amount that a state was spending and multiply it by 50 to account for all 50 states each developing their standards, plus a lot of additional spending on standards that various districts within the states were also independently developing and you rapidly come up with a really big number.

Is the government in charge of everything now?

Beginning to look that way. Just added the internet this week.

Have you ever been in a public school? Doesn't sound like it. Some of them were great places before all this testing.



Right, which is why we graduated millions of kids who were at best semiliterate, unable to make change, unable to point out the Pacific Ocean on a world map, who think Abe Lincoln was one of the Founding Fathers, and that Ben Franklin was one of our first Presidents, et cetera....

Great place maybe, but education sure wasn't so great...



Wonderful that you believe all of that. I will let my students know what you think of them next time they service your car, prepare your restaurant meal and serve it, cut your hair, repair your roads, fix your plumbing, service your HVAC, draw plans for your landscaping, etc. I will ask them if they can tell you about Ben Franklin and then I will say that they are not worthy to be there working for you because you expect them to be able to point to the Pacific Ocean before they can work for you.

Millions of worthless people? You underestimate people by a long shot. Someone might not meet the standard for who Ben Franklin is, but that says absolutely nothing about what they CAN do.

I didn't say anything about "worthless." How about we let them know that our educational system shortchanged them and that they have a bleaker future now, instead they could have been doing so much better in life than being limited to working in manual labor jobs that are rapidly going away due to outsourcing and automation.

That's something that you need to come to grips with. You might know classrooms (though I am skeptical that you are actually a teacher) but I definitely think you are seriously out of touch with the challenges facing kids after they get out of school these days. I've mentored a lot of kids and helped get career and life coaching on track, I've interviewed and hired a lot of recent grads, I've served on advisory boards to colleges, I have seen a lot and I do know a thing or two about this.



Not either PP, but I am glad responder has shared her expertise with us. I hope she will explain to me how we are to outsource auto mechanics, HVAC, landscaping, service people, etc.

News flash for the poster who thinks we "shortchanged" them and that their future is so much "bleaker". Many of my students (yes I AM a teacher) actually WANT to do auto mechanics, carpentry, etc. And GUESS WHAT??? They enjoy it. And many of them are planning to go on to own their own businesses based on their trades. They tell me how they are fixing their cars and how much money they are saving by knowing how to do that. They like to know how mechanical things work. The guy who put on my new roof and owns his own company has way more money than I do, vacations in the Caribbean every year and is living in a very nice home. He is paying taxes, not on welfare or food stamps and I don't think he feels real cheated. He has excellent skills in writing and communicating and he knew how to estimate the job. My hairdresser owns a home with her sister and they take vacations twice a year to places like Europe, Alaska, Thailand, etc. I'm pretty sure she is also paying her share of taxes and not feeling horribly "cheated". These people are doing what they WANT to do and they are happy. One of my just graduated students recently went to work for a company that sells new kitchens (granite countertops, etc.). He is making $20 an hour starting and taking courses in building trades at NOVA as well. He was not a college prep kid, but he is doing fine. I could go on and on. I think there are actually more jobs in some of these areas than there are in the college degreed professions right now. Immigrants are taking most of these positions. Many of them learned English in the public schools and are thankful. The end of high school is not the end of the line by any means. It's pretty much up to the individual and their own initiative to go as far as they can. I think it's much better to let them know how much they gained in school than keep giving people the idea that they deserve more from the government and that the government is constantly "shortchanging" them. Is the government in charge of everything now?

I also have students who have gone into the military. I guess the bleakness there depends on where they are stationed. But they are doing very honorable work. Manual labor is not dishonorable. Dishonorable is doing nothing, collecting public dole, and blaming the schools for being "shortchanged".

Have you ever done manual labor? There is still plenty of it out there despite "automation". There are some things that can't be outsourced.

https://whatiscommoncore.wordpress.com/2013/09/07/notre-dame-conference-address-of-dr-sandra-stotsky-common-cores-invalid-validation-committee/

Very interesting letter by a member of the validation committee. Now, I understand why we know nothing. It was designed to keep it all confidential.

"Peanuts" redundantly being spent in state A, state B, state C, district X, district Y, district Z, a thousand flowers blooming. As the saying goes, "a couple million here, a couple million there, and pretty soon you're talking real money." And that's what was ALREADY GOING ON prior to Common Core. The reality is that what you think was "peanuts" then gets multiplied a thousandfold at the state and local level and actually ends up costing far more than Common Core. Get past your myopia and look at the big picture. One set of standards is actually cheaper, more cost-effective and provides far greater ROI than the way it had been done prior with a thousand flowers blooming.

Not true. States were not spending that much money writing standards. What is your source?

Anonymous wrote:

Have you ever been in a public school? Doesn't sound like it. Some of them were great places before all this testing.



Right, which is why we graduated millions of kids who were at best semiliterate, unable to make change, unable to point out the Pacific Ocean on a world map, who think Abe Lincoln was one of the Founding Fathers, and that Ben Franklin was one of our first Presidents, et cetera....

Great place maybe, but education sure wasn't so great...



Wonderful that you believe all of that. I will let my students know what you think of them next time they service your car, prepare your restaurant meal and serve it, cut your hair, repair your roads, fix your plumbing, service your HVAC, draw plans for your landscaping, etc. I will ask them if they can tell you about Ben Franklin and then I will say that they are not worthy to be there working for you because you expect them to be able to point to the Pacific Ocean before they can work for you.

Millions of worthless people? You underestimate people by a long shot. Someone might not meet the standard for who Ben Franklin is, but that says absolutely nothing about what they CAN do.

I didn't say anything about "worthless." How about we let them know that our educational system shortchanged them and that they have a bleaker future now, instead they could have been doing so much better in life than being limited to working in manual labor jobs that are rapidly going away due to outsourcing and automation.

That's something that you need to come to grips with. You might know classrooms (though I am skeptical that you are actually a teacher) but I definitely think you are seriously out of touch with the challenges facing kids after they get out of school these days. I've mentored a lot of kids and helped get career and life coaching on track, I've interviewed and hired a lot of recent grads, I've served on advisory boards to colleges, I have seen a lot and I do know a thing or two about this.

Not either PP, but I am glad responder has shared her expertise with us. I hope she will explain to me how we are to outsource auto mechanics, HVAC, landscaping, service people, etc.

NP - Um, companies hire Mexicans for that work these days...

Anonymous wrote:

What's your point? Lots of money was spent on standards prior to Common Core too

Peanuts compared to this.

"Peanuts" redundantly being spent in state A, state B, state C, district X, district Y, district Z, a thousand flowers blooming. As the saying goes, "a couple million here, a couple million there, and pretty soon you're talking real money." And that's what was ALREADY GOING ON prior to Common Core. The reality is that what you think was "peanuts" then gets multiplied a thousandfold at the state and local level and actually ends up costing far more than Common Core. Get past your myopia and look at the big picture. One set of standards is actually cheaper, more cost-effective and provides far greater ROI than the way it had been done prior with a thousand flowers blooming.

Have you ever been in a public school? Doesn't sound like it. Some of them were great places before all this testing.



Right, which is why we graduated millions of kids who were at best semiliterate, unable to make change, unable to point out the Pacific Ocean on a world map, who think Abe Lincoln was one of the Founding Fathers, and that Ben Franklin was one of our first Presidents, et cetera....

Great place maybe, but education sure wasn't so great...



Wonderful that you believe all of that. I will let my students know what you think of them next time they service your car, prepare your restaurant meal and serve it, cut your hair, repair your roads, fix your plumbing, service your HVAC, draw plans for your landscaping, etc. I will ask them if they can tell you about Ben Franklin and then I will say that they are not worthy to be there working for you because you expect them to be able to point to the Pacific Ocean before they can work for you.

Millions of worthless people? You underestimate people by a long shot. Someone might not meet the standard for who Ben Franklin is, but that says absolutely nothing about what they CAN do.

I didn't say anything about "worthless." How about we let them know that our educational system shortchanged them and that they have a bleaker future now, instead they could have been doing so much better in life than being limited to working in manual labor jobs that are rapidly going away due to outsourcing and automation.

That's something that you need to come to grips with. You might know classrooms (though I am skeptical that you are actually a teacher) but I definitely think you are seriously out of touch with the challenges facing kids after they get out of school these days. I've mentored a lot of kids and helped get career and life coaching on track, I've interviewed and hired a lot of recent grads, I've served on advisory boards to colleges, I have seen a lot and I do know a thing or two about this.

Not either PP, but I am glad responder has shared her expertise with us. I hope she will explain to me how we are to outsource auto mechanics, HVAC, landscaping, service people, etc.

because we've spent money on standards many times in the past.

Sure we have.

Anonymous wrote:

Nobody said nothing was happening before Common Core came along... standards have been evolving for decades - but the anti-CC folks sure seem to act as though this were all new, unfounded and bizarre...


Please tell me if it is not new--why in the world are we spending so much money on it?



What's your point? Lots of money was spent on standards prior to Common Core too. And lots of money gets spent, squandered and wasted in many other areas of public education having nothing to do with standards and testing.

You seriously don't get the point? The first poster said that this is nothing new. You really don't get it?

Yes, it's nothing new, which defeats the outrage that we're spending money on it, because we've spent money on standards many times in the past.

What's your point? Lots of money was spent on standards prior to Common Core too

Peanuts compared to this.

Nobody said nothing was happening before Common Core came along... standards have been evolving for decades - but the anti-CC folks sure seem to act as though this were all new, unfounded and bizarre...


Please tell me if it is not new--why in the world are we spending so much money on it?



What's your point? Lots of money was spent on standards prior to Common Core too. And lots of money gets spent, squandered and wasted in many other areas of public education having nothing to do with standards and testing.

You seriously don't get the point? The first poster said that this is nothing new. You really don't get it?

Anonymous wrote:

Nobody said nothing was happening before Common Core came along... standards have been evolving for decades - but the anti-CC folks sure seem to act as though this were all new, unfounded and bizarre...

Please tell me if it is not new--why in the world are we spending so much money on it?

What's your point? Lots of money was spent on standards prior to Common Core too. And lots of money gets spent, squandered and wasted in many other areas of public education having nothing to do with standards and testing.

Anonymous wrote:

Have you ever been in a public school? Doesn't sound like it. Some of them were great places before all this testing.



Right, which is why we graduated millions of kids who were at best semiliterate, unable to make change, unable to point out the Pacific Ocean on a world map, who think Abe Lincoln was one of the Founding Fathers, and that Ben Franklin was one of our first Presidents, et cetera....

Great place maybe, but education sure wasn't so great...

Wonderful that you believe all of that. I will let my students know what you think of them next time they service your car, prepare your restaurant meal and serve it, cut your hair, repair your roads, fix your plumbing, service your HVAC, draw plans for your landscaping, etc. I will ask them if they can tell you about Ben Franklin and then I will say that they are not worthy to be there working for you because you expect them to be able to point to the Pacific Ocean before they can work for you.

Millions of worthless people? You underestimate people by a long shot. Someone might not meet the standard for who Ben Franklin is, but that says absolutely nothing about what they CAN do.

I didn't say anything about "worthless." How about we let them know that our educational system shortchanged them and that they have a bleaker future now, instead they could have been doing so much better in life than being limited to working in manual labor jobs that are rapidly going away due to outsourcing and automation.

That's something that you need to come to grips with. You might know classrooms (though I am skeptical that you are actually a teacher) but I definitely think you are seriously out of touch with the challenges facing kids after they get out of school these days. I've mentored a lot of kids and helped get career and life coaching on track, I've interviewed and hired a lot of recent grads, I've served on advisory boards to colleges, I have seen a lot and I do know a thing or two about this.

Nobody said nothing was happening before Common Core came along... standards have been evolving for decades - but the anti-CC folks sure seem to act as though this were all new, unfounded and bizarre...

Please tell me if it is not new--why in the world are we spending so much money on it?