Anonymous
Post 02/24/2022 19:31     Subject: Jen Hatmaker
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Usually its' the people who most loudly and proudly proclaim their virtue and worth and excellence and amazingness and of being "worth it". They are the ones you gotta keep an eye on. Just below the surface you'll find the rot, the sneakiness, the bitterness, the corruption; the real person they need to hide from others.


“The people who pop in and say everyone here is so hateful and jealous ... I don't see anyone saying that.”

People acting like this thread isn’t full of vitriol are deluding themselves.


Maybe some snark, sure. But vitriol? Meh. Ok. Maybe some folks are just tired of the whole image of these “perfect” influencers who take humble bragging to a hall of fame level, and espouse these great lives. They’re really no different than the rest of us common folk. I’ve met Jen, even been to her house. She’s was a pleasant and nice person. But, she definitely had, even then, a bit of a way that came off a little self righteous and “I’m better than you” vibe. So, I’ll admit it, I get a bit of a chip on my shoulder when I feel put down. I know I was brought up on the other side of the tracks, but she’s no better than me or anyone else.


Me too. Jen always struck me as calculating and pompous and very very self-consumed.

Brandon was way nicer and approachable and lovely, really.

Oh, and their kids are dear.

Anonymous
Post 02/24/2022 19:00     Subject: Jen Hatmaker
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Usually its' the people who most loudly and proudly proclaim their virtue and worth and excellence and amazingness and of being "worth it". They are the ones you gotta keep an eye on. Just below the surface you'll find the rot, the sneakiness, the bitterness, the corruption; the real person they need to hide from others.


“The people who pop in and say everyone here is so hateful and jealous ... I don't see anyone saying that.”

People acting like this thread isn’t full of vitriol are deluding themselves.


Maybe some snark, sure. But vitriol? Meh. Ok. Maybe some folks are just tired of the whole image of these “perfect” influencers who take humble bragging to a hall of fame level, and espouse these great lives. They’re really no different than the rest of us common folk. I’ve met Jen, even been to her house. She’s was a pleasant and nice person. But, she definitely had, even then, a bit of a way that came off a little self righteous and “I’m better than you” vibe. So, I’ll admit it, I get a bit of a chip on my shoulder when I feel put down. I know I was brought up on the other side of the tracks, but she’s no better than me or anyone else.
Anonymous
Post 02/24/2022 14:59     Subject: Jen Hatmaker
Anonymous wrote:Usually its' the people who most loudly and proudly proclaim their virtue and worth and excellence and amazingness and of being "worth it". They are the ones you gotta keep an eye on. Just below the surface you'll find the rot, the sneakiness, the bitterness, the corruption; the real person they need to hide from others.


“The people who pop in and say everyone here is so hateful and jealous ... I don't see anyone saying that.”

People acting like this thread isn’t full of vitriol are deluding themselves.
Anonymous
Post 02/24/2022 13:58     Subject: Jen Hatmaker
Usually its' the people who most loudly and proudly proclaim their virtue and worth and excellence and amazingness and of being "worth it". They are the ones you gotta keep an eye on. Just below the surface you'll find the rot, the sneakiness, the bitterness, the corruption; the real person they need to hide from others.
Anonymous
Post 02/24/2022 13:57     Subject: Jen Hatmaker
Anonymous wrote:
Yep. I agree. Wonder why their husbands habitually cheated? I would never condone that behavior at all, but the reality is, something was broken in their respective marriages and both parties have some ownership. Maybe they don’t like sexy time, or aren’t freaky enough, or have hang-ups from their own brokenness. Instead, let’s drag the horrible ex across the coals. Very tacky and hurtful. They’re doing it to get back at their ex’s and not address their own problems.


Yikes—Hatmakers aside, this thinking is problematic and enables abusers. Great relationships take 2 people, but it only takes one person to ruin things. The actions of another aren’t the responsibility of the spouse who was wronged. This is the kind of thinking and teaching that was pervasive in the conservative evangelical communities I was raised in, but there was only grace for the husbands who strayed, were abusive, addicted, or detached. When women did these things, they were vilified—much like is what’s happening with much of the talk surrounding the Hatmakers.

If someone is reading this and in a bad situation or being treated in a way that lacks respect, dignity, or honesty — please know — it’s not you, it’s them! Holy yikes, this type of thinking is so toxic. To think that there are people out there giving men a pass for cheating because their wife wasn’t “freaky” enough. That’s sick and sad, especially because a cheater is going to cheat no matter how much you compromise your comfort, self respect, or personal boundaries.




I agree with you…but I think the point made was that, generally, it does take to to make the marriage work. And that includes being 100% into the 50% of the marriage. Certainly no one deserves to be cheated on… at all. And it’s poor thinking to think “you’re gonna fix or change your partner.” But, at the same time, is the other spouse completely invested in the marriage too? These women don’t seem to take any responsibility for the unraveling of their marriages— and I believe, having experienced marriage counseling, that both parties are in someway responsible. I’m other words, no one is perfect. But I do agree wholeheartedly, that abuse or infidelity etc are never ok.


It takes two invested partners to have a healthy marriage, however the poster listed very unhealthy suggestions that women should be doing to keep a man from cheating. “Maybe they don’t like sexy time, or aren’t freaky enough, or have hang-ups from their own brokenness.” Is there a similar list of things a man should be doing to keep a woman from cheating? Things that if he didn’t do or perform, she would be given a pass for cheating? In the evangelical world, this is a one way street, and it’s harmful and used to keep women “submissive” and in abusive or otherwise unhealthy situations. It absolutely takes two people to have a strong relationship, but it doesn’t always take two people to have problems in a relationship. When someone cheats or is abusive or has an addiction, we should be looking at them and holding them accountable, not questioning what their partner did to “cause” such behavior.


I agree with you. But the way these women came off on the podcast was weird. It just was.
Anonymous
Post 02/24/2022 13:11     Subject: Jen Hatmaker
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:4000 gushy comments. Did anyone push back?


There’s a little pushing back on how she responded to Tyler’s comment on her post. She described him as “6’2” black types with dreads.” There were a few thoughtful comments pushing back on how problematic that description is. So far, they haven’t been deleted or directly responded to by Jen or Tyler.


If she ever educated herself on blackness and especially black hair you’d know that the use of “dreads” is highly controversial. Second, her description reeks of white woman fetishization. What, Jen, is “black types”? You’re so proud of being a whole person that you reduced your partner to his hair and body?


Jen has appropriated Black culture for years. She appears to think she gets a pass to do so because she adopted two Black children from Ethiopia. It has grated on me for a long time. Even I knew not to refer to them as "dreads" and not to fetishize Black men the way she did in a comment about her own partner. (And I'm a white, middle-aged non-famous person from the Midwest).



how so?
Anonymous
Post 02/24/2022 11:43     Subject: Jen Hatmaker
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:4000 gushy comments. Did anyone push back?


There’s a little pushing back on how she responded to Tyler’s comment on her post. She described him as “6’2” black types with dreads.” There were a few thoughtful comments pushing back on how problematic that description is. So far, they haven’t been deleted or directly responded to by Jen or Tyler.


If she ever educated herself on blackness and especially black hair you’d know that the use of “dreads” is highly controversial. Second, her description reeks of white woman fetishization. What, Jen, is “black types”? You’re so proud of being a whole person that you reduced your partner to his hair and body?


Jen has appropriated Black culture for years. She appears to think she gets a pass to do so because she adopted two Black children from Ethiopia. It has grated on me for a long time. Even I knew not to refer to them as "dreads" and not to fetishize Black men the way she did in a comment about her own partner. (And I'm a white, middle-aged non-famous person from the Midwest).

Anonymous
Post 02/24/2022 10:51     Subject: Jen Hatmaker
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:


NEWSFLASH: every marriage is different. So much of the time the person cheats because of childhood trauma, addiction issues, midlife, etc. that have nothing at all to do with the spouse. Nothing. A bipolar person is not the fault of the spouse, nor is anyone with mental illness or unaddressed baggage/trauma from their childhood. The spouse can be Mother efffing Theresa, look like Angelina Jolie, be June M-effing Cleaver, and Jenna Jameson in the bedroom...and, you know what?, someone disordered will still cheat.
Anonymous
Post 02/24/2022 10:14     Subject: Jen Hatmaker
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:This recent Jen Hatmaker/Kristen Howerton/Jamie Wright Ny Ex Is A Monster And I Was A Perfect Saint In My Marriage podcast is so bad that if they were still famous enough, if it went viral, would provoke a furious backlash.

Jen would have to take it down and post a bunch of apologetic word salad posts about how “she’s still hurting” and “wasn’t fair to ex husbands everywhere” and that “she’s still trying to find the tools of living through divorce”, etc.


Yep. I agree. Wonder why their husbands habitually cheated? I would never condone that behavior at all, but the reality is, something was broken in their respective marriages and both parties have some ownership. Maybe they don’t like sexy time, or aren’t freaky enough, or have hang-ups from their own brokenness. Instead, let’s drag the horrible ex across the coals. Very tacky and hurtful. They’re doing it to get back at their ex’s and not address their own problems.


Yikes—Hatmakers aside, this thinking is problematic and enables abusers. Great relationships take 2 people, but it only takes one person to ruin things. The actions of another aren’t the responsibility of the spouse who was wronged. This is the kind of thinking and teaching that was pervasive in the conservative evangelical communities I was raised in, but there was only grace for the husbands who strayed, were abusive, addicted, or detached. When women did these things, they were vilified—much like is what’s happening with much of the talk surrounding the Hatmakers.

If someone is reading this and in a bad situation or being treated in a way that lacks respect, dignity, or honesty — please know — it’s not you, it’s them! Holy yikes, this type of thinking is so toxic. To think that there are people out there giving men a pass for cheating because their wife wasn’t “freaky” enough. That’s sick and sad, especially because a cheater is going to cheat no matter how much you compromise your comfort, self respect, or personal boundaries.


I agree with you…but I think the point made was that, generally, it does take to to make the marriage work. And that includes being 100% into the 50% of the marriage. Certainly no one deserves to be cheated on… at all. And it’s poor thinking to think “you’re gonna fix or change your partner.” But, at the same time, is the other spouse completely invested in the marriage too? These women don’t seem to take any responsibility for the unraveling of their marriages— and I believe, having experienced marriage counseling, that both parties are in someway responsible. I’m other words, no one is perfect. But I do agree wholeheartedly, that abuse or infidelity etc are never ok.


NEWSFLASH: every marriage is different. So much of the time the person cheats because of childhood trauma, addiction issues, midlife, etc. that have nothing at all to do with the spouse. Nothing. A bipolar person is not the fault of the spouse, nor is anyone with mental illness or unaddressed baggage/trauma from their childhood. The spouse can be Mother efffing Theresa, look like Angelina Jolie, be June M-effing Cleaver, and Jenna Jameson in the bedroom...and, you know what?, someone disordered will still cheat.
Anonymous
Post 02/24/2022 09:39     Subject: Jen Hatmaker

Yep. I agree. Wonder why their husbands habitually cheated? I would never condone that behavior at all, but the reality is, something was broken in their respective marriages and both parties have some ownership. Maybe they don’t like sexy time, or aren’t freaky enough, or have hang-ups from their own brokenness. Instead, let’s drag the horrible ex across the coals. Very tacky and hurtful. They’re doing it to get back at their ex’s and not address their own problems.


Yikes—Hatmakers aside, this thinking is problematic and enables abusers. Great relationships take 2 people, but it only takes one person to ruin things. The actions of another aren’t the responsibility of the spouse who was wronged. This is the kind of thinking and teaching that was pervasive in the conservative evangelical communities I was raised in, but there was only grace for the husbands who strayed, were abusive, addicted, or detached. When women did these things, they were vilified—much like is what’s happening with much of the talk surrounding the Hatmakers.

If someone is reading this and in a bad situation or being treated in a way that lacks respect, dignity, or honesty — please know — it’s not you, it’s them! Holy yikes, this type of thinking is so toxic. To think that there are people out there giving men a pass for cheating because their wife wasn’t “freaky” enough. That’s sick and sad, especially because a cheater is going to cheat no matter how much you compromise your comfort, self respect, or personal boundaries.


I agree with you…but I think the point made was that, generally, it does take to to make the marriage work. And that includes being 100% into the 50% of the marriage. Certainly no one deserves to be cheated on… at all. And it’s poor thinking to think “you’re gonna fix or change your partner.” But, at the same time, is the other spouse completely invested in the marriage too? These women don’t seem to take any responsibility for the unraveling of their marriages— and I believe, having experienced marriage counseling, that both parties are in someway responsible. I’m other words, no one is perfect. But I do agree wholeheartedly, that abuse or infidelity etc are never ok.


It takes two invested partners to have a healthy marriage, however the poster listed very unhealthy suggestions that women should be doing to keep a man from cheating. “Maybe they don’t like sexy time, or aren’t freaky enough, or have hang-ups from their own brokenness.” Is there a similar list of things a man should be doing to keep a woman from cheating? Things that if he didn’t do or perform, she would be given a pass for cheating? In the evangelical world, this is a one way street, and it’s harmful and used to keep women “submissive” and in abusive or otherwise unhealthy situations. It absolutely takes two people to have a strong relationship, but it doesn’t always take two people to have problems in a relationship. When someone cheats or is abusive or has an addiction, we should be looking at them and holding them accountable, not questioning what their partner did to “cause” such behavior.
Anonymous
Post 02/24/2022 04:20     Subject: Jen Hatmaker
Lots of similar sentiments about Jen’s trajectory and her change of course. I’m glad I’m not the only one who has felt this way. Equally, too, is the feeling that she is just sooo over the top and hyperbolic. It’s like drinking syrup straight from the bottle when you were a kid…. The first taste is so good, but it doesn’t take long to figure out that it’s way too sweet and quickly turns to a belly ache, and your 10 yr old self learns that it’s not a good idea to do. Don’t ask me how I know. It’s better to temper that sweetness with some pancakes or waffles…. Is IHOP open?
Anonymous
Post 02/24/2022 04:11     Subject: Jen Hatmaker
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:This recent Jen Hatmaker/Kristen Howerton/Jamie Wright Ny Ex Is A Monster And I Was A Perfect Saint In My Marriage podcast is so bad that if they were still famous enough, if it went viral, would provoke a furious backlash.

Jen would have to take it down and post a bunch of apologetic word salad posts about how “she’s still hurting” and “wasn’t fair to ex husbands everywhere” and that “she’s still trying to find the tools of living through divorce”, etc.


Yep. I agree. Wonder why their husbands habitually cheated? I would never condone that behavior at all, but the reality is, something was broken in their respective marriages and both parties have some ownership. Maybe they don’t like sexy time, or aren’t freaky enough, or have hang-ups from their own brokenness. Instead, let’s drag the horrible ex across the coals. Very tacky and hurtful. They’re doing it to get back at their ex’s and not address their own problems.


Yikes—Hatmakers aside, this thinking is problematic and enables abusers. Great relationships take 2 people, but it only takes one person to ruin things. The actions of another aren’t the responsibility of the spouse who was wronged. This is the kind of thinking and teaching that was pervasive in the conservative evangelical communities I was raised in, but there was only grace for the husbands who strayed, were abusive, addicted, or detached. When women did these things, they were vilified—much like is what’s happening with much of the talk surrounding the Hatmakers.

If someone is reading this and in a bad situation or being treated in a way that lacks respect, dignity, or honesty — please know — it’s not you, it’s them! Holy yikes, this type of thinking is so toxic. To think that there are people out there giving men a pass for cheating because their wife wasn’t “freaky” enough. That’s sick and sad, especially because a cheater is going to cheat no matter how much you compromise your comfort, self respect, or personal boundaries.


I agree with you…but I think the point made was that, generally, it does take to to make the marriage work. And that includes being 100% into the 50% of the marriage. Certainly no one deserves to be cheated on… at all. And it’s poor thinking to think “you’re gonna fix or change your partner.” But, at the same time, is the other spouse completely invested in the marriage too? These women don’t seem to take any responsibility for the unraveling of their marriages— and I believe, having experienced marriage counseling, that both parties are in someway responsible. I’m other words, no one is perfect. But I do agree wholeheartedly, that abuse or infidelity etc are never ok.
Anonymous
Post 02/23/2022 20:50     Subject: Jen Hatmaker
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:4000 gushy comments. Did anyone push back?


There’s a little pushing back on how she responded to Tyler’s comment on her post. She described him as “6’2” black types with dreads.” There were a few thoughtful comments pushing back on how problematic that description is. So far, they haven’t been deleted or directly responded to by Jen or Tyler.


If she ever educated herself on blackness and especially black hair you’d know that the use of “dreads” is highly controversial. Second, her description reeks of white woman fetishization. What, Jen, is “black types”? You’re so proud of being a whole person that you reduced your partner to his hair and body?
Anonymous
Post 02/23/2022 19:15     Subject: Jen Hatmaker
.


it's that she announced it in the most dramatic, over the top way possible, with seemingly very little insight



That’s how she does everything. She’s consistent.
Anonymous
Post 02/23/2022 18:36     Subject: Jen Hatmaker
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I agree with Jen’s politics and her shift in faith to be the voice of the marginalized and downtrodden. It’s literally the message of Jesus so yay her for getting it right. I know it came at a cost so even more yay for her for planting her flag there. Great.

I’m not jealous or hating on her or her life. My issues stem from the shift from speaking up for women in faith and women living a Jesus life in the midst of marriage, parenting, culture, hardships etc to a voice speaking about literal nothingness except self promotion and vague but well written pronouncements about *gestures around* whatever.

She’s a talented writer. Instead of doing the laborious work of using that talent to say something of import and move the ball forward in any sort of substantive way, we get long fb posts about whatever struck her fancy that day. And 85% of her posts are me centered and using that talent to not so subtly line her pockets with very little actual work.

She’s become another influencer. She took a decent platform that she earned into a promo code barrage and saying very little of value.

It’s disappointing and transparent. That’s the issue for me.


I agree with this—her shift in strategy has not been appealing to me. It does seem directly related to her divorce and like she’s needing to make additional income. She has a platform for what she’s doing and it seems to make sense for her current needs/wants. It’s not for me, but I’m not mad about it.



I agree. I think the divorce combined with Covid and the resulting lack of speaking engagements, book tours, etc led her to look for other income streams, and this is probably a pretty easy one. I also attribute a lot of her changes to the "divorce crazies". I've seen many, many of my friends go through the crazies. I've been through the crazies. It's not pretty. It takes many forms, but a sudden obsession with looks, clothes, travel and exciting new adventures is fairly standard. Add in an ex who moves on somewhat quickly with a very attractive person, and it explodes.