When JB started screaming, maybe the salvage yard guy hit her in the head since he previously told his co-worker he wanted to know what it was like to crack someone's skull. And then he and Santa, who may have not really have wanted her hurt, argued over why he did that. Maybe that's when salvage yard guy took off, leaving Santa to deal with JB alone. And maybe he couldn't physically handle getting her out alone the distance it would take and took a while to think about his options and felt he had no choice then but to finish her off so she wouldn't identify him. It probably then took him a while to go around the house finding the materials he needed. And Santa would know the house and where he could hide for a while if he needed to.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the plan was to take her out of the home. But then maybe she woke up and started kicking and screaming while they were trying to get her out the window. A six year old can be more than a handful, and then the plan may have gone awry. And then he had to kill her right then to keep from being identified. Especially if he had a cohort in the kidnapping who took off on him.

Let's say you're right. The killer could still take the body from the house when he left. If he had enough strength to kill her, he could carry her small body. Then he could still theoretically get paid because no one would know she was dead. And the cops would be missing out on crucial evidence while they searched for her.

Alternatively, if you believe the Ramsey's did it, why wouldn't they remove their child's body from the house and bury her somewhere so no one would ever know what happened? Everyone would think JB was kidnapped and never found. It doesn't make sense to go through this elaborate cover-up of using a garrote and sexually assaulting your child when they could've disposed of her body in other ways that would've left much less evidence.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you know he was with her an hour or two afterwards?

They don't know. They don't know when she was hit in the head or when she was strangled. They were speculating. They were speculating so it would fit into their bizzare theory that Patsy hit her in the head in the bathroom and then decided to stage a sexual predator scene hours later in the basement.
They made a big deal that Patsy could not be ruled out as the writer of the ransom note. But on tv the other day they said that on a scale 1-5 and 5 being absolutely did not do it- Patsy was a 4.5 or something like that. She was more likely not to have written it. Santa was never cleared of writing it and they never released what his score was. Even Steve Thomas- the lead detective said in his book that Santa could not be cleared of writing the note but he assumed he was not physically capable of the crime so therefore he could not have written that note. That is pure bias. His assumptions of one thing do not clear Santa of writing the note.

They aren't speculating. The medical evidence shows she was all very for an honest r or,two,after the head blow before she was strangled. ,the only speculation is coming from your fact free world.

Experts suggest the blood swelling in her skull post-blow indicate that the strangulation happened afterward.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you know he was with her an hour or two afterwards?

They don't know. They don't know when she was hit in the head or when she was strangled. They were speculating. They were speculating so it would fit into their bizzare theory that Patsy hit her in the head in the bathroom and then decided to stage a sexual predator scene hours later in the basement.
They made a big deal that Patsy could not be ruled out as the writer of the ransom note. But on tv the other day they said that on a scale 1-5 and 5 being absolutely did not do it- Patsy was a 4.5 or something like that. She was more likely not to have written it. Santa was never cleared of writing it and they never released what his score was. Even Steve Thomas- the lead detective said in his book that Santa could not be cleared of writing the note but he assumed he was not physically capable of the crime so therefore he could not have written that note. That is pure bias. His assumptions of one thing do not clear Santa of writing the note.

They aren't speculating. The medical evidence shows she was all very for an honest r or,two,after the head blow before she was strangled. ,the only speculation is coming from your fact free world.

Anonymous wrote:How do you know he was with her an hour or two afterwards?

They don't know. They don't know when she was hit in the head or when she was strangled. They were speculating. They were speculating so it would fit into their bizzare theory that Patsy hit her in the head in the bathroom and then decided to stage a sexual predator scene hours later in the basement.
They made a big deal that Patsy could not be ruled out as the writer of the ransom note. But on tv the other day they said that on a scale 1-5 and 5 being absolutely did not do it- Patsy was a 4.5 or something like that. She was more likely not to have written it. Santa was never cleared of writing it and they never released what his score was. Even Steve Thomas- the lead detective said in his book that Santa could not be cleared of writing the note but he assumed he was not physically capable of the crime so therefore he could not have written that note. That is pure bias. His assumptions of one thing do not clear Santa of writing the note.

How do you know he was with her an hour or two afterwards?

Anonymous wrote:I think the plan was to take her out of the home. But then maybe she woke up and started kicking and screaming while they were trying to get her out the window. A six year old can be more than a handful, and then the plan may have gone awry. And then he had to kill her right then to keep from being identified. Especially if he had a cohort in the kidnapping who took off on him.

So, he had to get out of there, so he hit her in the head, and then stayed with her in the house strangled her an hour or two later. That makes zero sense.

Oh, and if it was Santa with his post surgery heart condition inside, then it also could be he just couldn't follow through getting her out to his vehicle. He probably needed the other guy for that.

Anonymous wrote:TLC has a special on JB tonight at eight if anyone is interested.

The 20 year anniversary is really bringing more attention. Have seen commercials for CBS's three night special and also a Lifetime movie.

Thanks, PP!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the plan was to take her out of the home. But then maybe she woke up and started kicking and screaming while they were trying to get her out the window. A six year old can be more than a handful, and then the plan may have gone awry. And then he had to kill her right then to keep from being identified. Especially if he had a cohort in the kidnapping who took off on him.

Let's say you're right. The killer could still take the body from the house when he left. If he had enough strength to kill her, he could carry her small body. Then he could still theoretically get paid because no one would know she was dead. And the cops would be missing out on crucial evidence while they searched for her.

It's possible they both panicked and weren't thinking things through because they didn't have a plan at that point. The note and "the mission" was probably forgotten because they were so focused on dealing with what actually happened and getting away. They were likely amateurs at this -- hard to plan for every contingency. The house was so big, it's been reported that you couldn't hear the commotion in the basement upstairs.

I think it may be that one guy was outside waiting to take JB and one guy was inside trying to get her out. I think JB woke up and then he he couldn't get her out, and then the outside guy may have left. He may have been more skittish and worried about JB's screams being heard by neighbors and the cops showing up.

I think the intruder had been planning to attack JB for a while. He knew her, the family, and the house. The movie Ransom had recently been playing and the movie Nick of Time was on cable in Boulder that night. There were also references from other movies. I think the killer was obsessed with JB but liked watching kidnapping movies. I think the killer broke in and then hid. He would not run upstairs to her room immediately because he would want to make sure that no one saw him go into the house and no one woke up. He did not want to get caught because people would know he was a child predator- something he tried to hide. I think while he was waiting and listening he worried that once he got JB he needed something to distract the parents if they woke up while he was doing his sick fantasy. I think he was lurking by the spiral staircase and saw the pad of paper and decided to write the note. The entire first two pages is the killer trying to gain control of John and threaten him over and over that if he calls the police the girl will die. Two pages of threats (from movies). I think he had seen John's paycheck and saw the bonus. He assumed that amount would be easy for John to get so there would be more of a possibility John would be so scared that if he did the wrong thing and called the police JB would die. The killer wanted to control John's actions if he woke up while the killer was in the basement assaulting JB. He also wanted time to get from the Ramsey house back to his house before the police were called. The last part of the note is where the killer mocks John. The killer did not use Patsy's name at all. Patsy was really nice to Santa.
The letter the McReynolds wrote to the Daily Camera long after the crime sounded like the ransom note. It started off by saying "We.." He used the word scrutiny. It was wordy and used commas. It was demanding. He also praised Steve Thomas- the detective that dismissed the idea Santa could do it and was only focused on the Ramseys. He ended that note with "Wake up people.. She did not commit suicide" At this point Santa had moved to Massachusetts supposedly to get away from people hounding him. But he can't help himself and interjects himself again by writing that letter.

Anonymous wrote:I think the plan was to take her out of the home. But then maybe she woke up and started kicking and screaming while they were trying to get her out the window. A six year old can be more than a handful, and then the plan may have gone awry. And then he had to kill her right then to keep from being identified. Especially if he had a cohort in the kidnapping who took off on him.

Let's say you're right. The killer could still take the body from the house when he left. If he had enough strength to kill her, he could carry her small body. Then he could still theoretically get paid because no one would know she was dead. And the cops would be missing out on crucial evidence while they searched for her.

Anonymous wrote:I think the plan was to take her out of the home. But then maybe she woke up and started kicking and screaming while they were trying to get her out the window. A six year old can be more than a handful, and then the plan may have gone awry. And then he had to kill her right then to keep from being identified. Especially if he had a cohort in the kidnapping who took off on him.

If she screamed, why didn't anyone in the house wake-up? Maybe Patsy and John are drunk, but Burke wasn't.

TLC has a special on JB tonight at eight if anyone is interested.

The 20 year anniversary is really bringing more attention. Have seen commercials for CBS's three night special and also a Lifetime movie.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe Santa needed the money to pay all his medical bills and the trip to Europe, and got the guy working at the salvage yard to be his elf helper that night for half the take.

What was Santa's background?

The take of what? Dear lord, some of you PPs are far afield.

The ransom money. Why is it far out to think someone wanted to do this for money? Some people do think that's a lot of money, like the guy in the mansion murders in DC. He brutally killed 4 people for all for $40K.

How is the killer going to get paid off if he left the dead body in the home? If you want money, you have to get it before there is murder/evidence of murder. If the goal was money, the perpetrator would've taken her from the house immediately. (He can still rape and kill her outside the house if that's a secondary MO.)

If it was the guy who owned the salvage yard, it was an amateur kidnapping that went bad. He hit the girl with the flashlight to knock her unconscious. He thinks she is dead. He panics and arranges the scene to look like a molestation in the home.

The trouble with all that is that he left the note anyway, and all of the objects were from the home, and he would have to be there for two hours, and why did he have a woman right the note anyway?