Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They may not have realized how close they were to hearstroke/death while they were trying to save the dog as well. Maybe if they did they would have acted differently but maybe not. Dogs have become like humans to many of us.

+1

I would never leave my dog behind to die alone.

Darwinism for dog owners.

I’d rather die with my dog than live with sh1theads like you.

Would you rather sacrifice your baby or your dog, though?

NP. I am just glad I am not trapped on a sinking boat with most of the posters on DCUM.

But you’re seriously saying if you and your baby and your dog were struggling on a hike, you wouldn’t leave your dog behind to hopefully come rescue later - because you just would never do that? Even if the result would be your baby dies? Because that’s next level crazy. You’d basically murder your baby to attempt to save your dog.

Since DCUM loves utilitarianism: The baby is of no help to me on the climb. The dog can move under its own power. The dog could potentially defend from other hazards, like snakes.

In reality, I make the same choice as the husband. I made a mistake. There is a penalty for mistakes.

The heat stroke theory makes the most sense to me. One member of the part gets in severe trouble first, there's some panic about what to do that's probably impacted by the other adult or both adults being on the way to trouble themselves and not being able to think straight or having no good options, and all of them are doomed.

Heat stroke can be really fast. If you want to see it in action, look up Caleb Reynolds on Survivor, which I think you can see on YouTube. He goes from moving around doing intense physical activity for a challenge one second, to being collapsed on the ground the next, unable to move and unresponsive and gasping for air. One of his teammates gives him water but he isn't able to drink and he was beyond that anyway. Prior to that there were zero signs that he was in any kind of trouble. The production team only managed to save his life because they were able to radio for a Medevac chopper and had a skilled medical team and supplies like chilled IV saline and oxygen to keep his vitals from tanking while they waited.

Like a PP, I also thought of the Death Valley Germans. Hopefully here we will be able to get more answers as by the time any sign of the Germans was found, 13 years had passed and most of the clues and remains were gone.

It also made me think of David and Ornella Steiner, a French couple who died at White Sands National Monument a few years ago. They went hiking on a 101-degree day on a trail that was half the length that this family apparently went on, with their 9-year-old son. Ornella started feeling ill and turned around to go back to the car, and collapsed and died on the way. David and the son continued on but then David collapsed as well and from the son's account later had been acting increasingly bizarre and confused himself. The 9-year-old didn't know what to do so stayed with the dad on the side of the trail. Unlike the couple in this story, they were hiking in an area with regular NPS patrols so while both adults died, the rangers managed to find the 9-year-old in time to save him. It turned out later that the parents had been more attentive and careful to their child's water consumption than their own which was probably why he survived.

People underestimate nature all the time and get themselves in big trouble. I think that's probably what happened here as well.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:After reading through all the information, it doesn't sound like they intended to do a day long hike. And if the dog didn't have protection for it's feet, Jonathan probably found himself trying to carry the dog AND the baby. With the scorching temperatures, he reached a point where he simply couldn't go any further. He was probably also developing heat stroke. And that's why he was found in the sitting position with the dog and baby next to him.
Then his wife was also succumbing to heat stroke. I gather they were trying to stick together as a group, but when Jonathan couldn't go any further she ventured ahead to seek help. Maybe due to her health issues she couldn't take the baby with her. By then it was too late. Soon after she also collapsed.
Very heartbreaking and tragic.

I think this is right, and I’ve been posting on this thread since the 3rd page.

At the end, sticking together is what killed them. At a certain point, you need to ditch the “fur baby” if you’re struggling to physically save yourself or a child. I know it’s terrible, but the best course of action was to leave the dog behind tied up in a shady location. That older dog with the heavy fur likely began having trouble first, either thru burned paws or heat exhaustion. I’m willing to bet money on it. They then killed themselves struggling to help the dog.

Had they managed to get back to safety and cell phone reception, they could’ve called the park service and gotten the fire gate unlocked. The rancher could then drive the fire road to rescue the dog.

I think the big story here is that people need to be a lot more careful when taking their pets on outdoor adventures. If something bad happens, you need to face the fact that you may be put in a situation where you will need to sacrifice your animal. This recently happened to a friend of mine who was involved in a sinking sailboat incident off the coast of California - his dog was left on the boat and lost at sea.

+1

I believe this too. A hurt dog and baby together is 70+ lbs of dead weight.

Now couple that with 109 degree heat and the terrible uphill climbs. he was probably in good shape but at some point he just sat down and said "I can't go any further."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They may not have realized how close they were to hearstroke/death while they were trying to save the dog as well. Maybe if they did they would have acted differently but maybe not. Dogs have become like humans to many of us.

+1

I would never leave my dog behind to die alone.

Darwinism for dog owners.

I’d rather die with my dog than live with sh1theads like you.

You'd risk your baby's life to save a dog?

I wouldn’t leave the dog out tied up alone. Parents could split up.

Seems like they did. It didn’t work.

I don't think they did. According to reports, they have only mentioned the water on the husband. If they split up, she needed the water to finish the last 1.5 miles. Leaving him the water would be suicide.

We don’t know if they had bottled water in addition to the camelback style bladder set up the dad had. I think if we knew what food and other supplies they had with them, it would help to figure out how long they intended to be out. It also seems like the sherrif’s reported speculation that they may have tried to do the 8 mile loop may not be confirmed. If they just planned to go down part of Savage-Lundy to look for mines and then turned back, they don’t seem nearly so reckless, though I don’t think the dog or baby should have been out in that kind of heat on any length hike. I’m also curious about the extent to which the recent CA forest fires may have degraded the air quality and contributed to their struggles.

How long would the hike have been had they not done the whole loop, but explored a bit and turned back? Either way it seems like it would have taken hours, longer than people should be out with a hairy dog and a young baby in the heat.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They may not have realized how close they were to hearstroke/death while they were trying to save the dog as well. Maybe if they did they would have acted differently but maybe not. Dogs have become like humans to many of us.

+1

I would never leave my dog behind to die alone.

Darwinism for dog owners.

I’d rather die with my dog than live with sh1theads like you.

You'd risk your baby's life to save a dog?

NP but seriously! I love my dog but he is not on the same level as a human family member. Absolutely I’d save my baby and husband before my dog. The dog is an animal.

It’s entirely conjecture that the dog is the one who slowed them up regardless. One or both of the grown humans who died are the ones responsible for the deaths. No one else.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They may not have realized how close they were to hearstroke/death while they were trying to save the dog as well. Maybe if they did they would have acted differently but maybe not. Dogs have become like humans to many of us.

+1

I would never leave my dog behind to die alone.

Darwinism for dog owners.

I’d rather die with my dog than live with sh1theads like you.

You'd risk your baby's life to save a dog?

I wouldn’t leave the dog out tied up alone. Parents could split up.

Seems like they did. It didn’t work.

I don't think they did. According to reports, they have only mentioned the water on the husband. If they split up, she needed the water to finish the last 1.5 miles. Leaving him the water would be suicide.

We don’t know if they had bottled water in addition to the camelback style bladder set up the dad had. I think if we knew what food and other supplies they had with them, it would help to figure out how long they intended to be out. It also seems like the sherrif’s reported speculation that they may have tried to do the 8 mile loop may not be confirmed. If they just planned to go down part of Savage-Lundy to look for mines and then turned back, they don’t seem nearly so reckless, though I don’t think the dog or baby should have been out in that kind of heat on any length hike. I’m also curious about the extent to which the recent CA forest fires may have degraded the air quality and contributed to their struggles.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They may not have realized how close they were to hearstroke/death while they were trying to save the dog as well. Maybe if they did they would have acted differently but maybe not. Dogs have become like humans to many of us.

+1

I would never leave my dog behind to die alone.

Darwinism for dog owners.

I’d rather die with my dog than live with sh1theads like you.

Would you rather sacrifice your baby or your dog, though?

NP. I am just glad I am not trapped on a sinking boat with most of the posters on DCUM.

But you’re seriously saying if you and your baby and your dog were struggling on a hike, you wouldn’t leave your dog behind to hopefully come rescue later - because you just would never do that? Even if the result would be your baby dies? Because that’s next level crazy. You’d basically murder your baby to attempt to save your dog.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They may not have realized how close they were to hearstroke/death while they were trying to save the dog as well. Maybe if they did they would have acted differently but maybe not. Dogs have become like humans to many of us.

+1

I would never leave my dog behind to die alone.

Darwinism for dog owners.

I’d rather die with my dog than live with sh1theads like you.

You'd risk your baby's life to save a dog?

I wouldn’t leave the dog out tied up alone. Parents could split up.

Seems like they did. It didn’t work.

I don't think they did. According to reports, they have only mentioned the water on the husband. If they split up, she needed the water to finish the last 1.5 miles. Leaving him the water would be suicide.

But he had the dog and baby though. Maybe the plan was he would slowly do what he could and/or rest and she would try to quickly and lightly go for help. I just don’t get why only got a half a football field away.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They may not have realized how close they were to hearstroke/death while they were trying to save the dog as well. Maybe if they did they would have acted differently but maybe not. Dogs have become like humans to many of us.

+1

I would never leave my dog behind to die alone.

Darwinism for dog owners.

I’d rather die with my dog than live with sh1theads like you.

You'd risk your baby's life to save a dog?

I wouldn’t leave the dog out tied up alone. Parents could split up.

Seems like they did. It didn’t work.

I don't think they did. According to reports, they have only mentioned the water on the husband. If they split up, she needed the water to finish the last 1.5 miles. Leaving him the water would be suicide.

Well, judging by the results….

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They may not have realized how close they were to hearstroke/death while they were trying to save the dog as well. Maybe if they did they would have acted differently but maybe not. Dogs have become like humans to many of us.

+1

I would never leave my dog behind to die alone.

Darwinism for dog owners.

I’d rather die with my dog than live with sh1theads like you.

Would you rather sacrifice your baby or your dog, though?

NP. I am just glad I am not trapped on a sinking boat with most of the posters on DCUM.

I hope we can get this thread back on track to the Gerrish/Chung family. Not that other heatstroke/hiking incidents aren't useful parallels to consider, but going to probe/analyze details of the other case (Didzar/Tramonte) is a distraction of this thread, and it's already hard for people to keep up with since it's nearly 80 pages. As it gets longer and longer, people might jump into the thread to at the point where they see the posts about the other case and not realize that the details being discussed are for a separate case...then they will post things like, 'wait, I thought they started the hike at 7:45 am, not 10 am,' etc.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They may not have realized how close they were to hearstroke/death while they were trying to save the dog as well. Maybe if they did they would have acted differently but maybe not. Dogs have become like humans to many of us.

+1

I would never leave my dog behind to die alone.

Darwinism for dog owners.

I’d rather die with my dog than live with sh1theads like you.

You'd risk your baby's life to save a dog?

I wouldn’t leave the dog out tied up alone. Parents could split up.

Seems like they did. It didn’t work.

I don't think they did. According to reports, they have only mentioned the water on the husband. If they split up, she needed the water to finish the last 1.5 miles. Leaving him the water would be suicide.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They may not have realized how close they were to hearstroke/death while they were trying to save the dog as well. Maybe if they did they would have acted differently but maybe not. Dogs have become like humans to many of us.

+1

I would never leave my dog behind to die alone.

Darwinism for dog owners.

I’d rather die with my dog than live with sh1theads like you.

Would you rather sacrifice your baby or your dog, though?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would a sat phone have helped them to get connected to search and rescue?

Probably. They probably had GPS as well, but no way to download maps for the area on the cell phone. Not that it would help much knowing exactly where you are.

I read an article from a local news publication that the search & rescue crew could not use their satellite phones where the bodies were located. The crew had to hike uphill some distance to get satellite phone service.

Of course this is all dependent on where the satellite is physically located during a specific time of day in relation to your position. But generally you need to get to a line of sight with the satellite. In a canyon, you’ll only have direct line of sight to the satellite during certain times of the day/night,

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Exact same temperatures and terrain (no tree coverage and rocky) as the California family too.



Brubaker said he remembered seeing Tramonte earlier, and asked how she was doing when they passed on the trail. Tramonte responded, “‘It’s too freaking hot, I’m turning around … We didn’t bring any water today,'” Brubaker said. He also said Tramonte did not appear to be in serious trouble and was in relatively good spirits. She did not ask for any water or help, he said.

This is so weird. Did the cop give her the car keys to cool off? Seems like all her belongings except phone were in the car, they didn’t have any water… if he was doing this hike all the time why didn’t they bring water?

And what was the plan when she had hiked alone back down to the locked car? Bake in the heat until he finished the climb and came back down to unlock the car?

Re your last questions - I had the same concerns. Maybe she was going to call an Uber to take her back to her hotel. She had flown in from Boston for the first-date and wasn't staying with him.