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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If Tom didn’t father Shiv’s baby, who did? They can’t spring a new baby daddy character on us in the last few episodes, can they?

No, it's def Tom. Why Shiv kept looking at him and suddenly felt ambivalent about their relationship, even giving it one final go.

The show runners have confirmed in a podcast that Tom is the father. For sure for sure, no more speculation.

I think that fight makes it slightly more likely that Shiv will terminate the pregnancy because right now her choices are awful. She can try to stick it out with Tom, knowing that he believe what he said about her and also knowing that he would probably stick it out anyway just to stay in proximity to the money and power. Or she can divorce him knowing that he will have parental rights and she will have to pay him probably a huge amount in child support (in divorces like this, child support can be massive because there is an expectation that the kids have some consistency in their lives between the rich parent and the not-rich parents, which means the rich parent forks over a lot of money for housing, tutoring, activities, private schools, etc. in order to make up for the difference in resources) plus they would be in each others lives for ever.

Shiv is in her 5th or 6th month, isn’t she? I’m guessing the super-rich can always pay someone to take care of it, but still it seems like a long-shot.

Neither Shiv nor Tom would make a great parent, but Tom might be marginally better.

How on earth can Tom NOT know that she’s pregnant? She looks different and they were sleeping together. You’d think he would have noticed or suspected.

Why isn’t she telling him??????

Full confession - I have become a little obsessed with this show.

I re-watched this episode and I think Tom knows she's pregnant. During their fight when he says he doesn't think she would be a very good mother the camera zooms in on Shiv and you can tell that really hit her lunch a punch in the gut, but her reaction is a weak, "Well, that's not a very nice thing to say, is it?" I'm not trying to go down a Lost type rabbit hole here, but if you cut out that part of the fight it's at a very different pace/level than the rest. Tom makes a big pause before he says that, and then Shiv has this very weak reaction - she doesn't attack Tom, she just kind of folds. And then they move on. Call me crazy, but this was a vicious fight and when Tom says that it's a perfect opening for Shiv to go for the jugular and really insult him where he's vulnerable, and she just doesn't.

^^ "like a punch in the gut," not lunch - LOL.

I more or less agree. He can't NOT know. I think he said that as a really low blow.

The way he paused and considered before he said it- I agree, I think he suspects, and said it to be a very low blow to her. He definitely has that side of him- to be incredibly cruel while maintaining plausible deniability about how cruel he is being.

This is a very insightful point about Tom. I also think his cruelty comes from being pretty intelligent and a good observer of other people, but he rarely gets to actually express these observations in this world because he knows he's an outsider and has to suck up to everyone, including his wife. It's why he's so cruel to Greg and sometimes to other underlings at Waystar (on the rare occasion we seem him interact with them). It's his chance to let his wit, which is naturally critical and cruel, come out.

Yes. He is almost sadistically cruel sometimes. He lets it all out on greg to get it out of his system but it simmers under the surface when he interacts with Shiv, for a while I’ve noticed. Like how he asked her father for divorce advice and put all the good lawyers on retainer before she could call them- and then acted sort of innocent about it when she called him. And how he betrayed her in the first place, even when he opened up honestly about it being about the money- he could have gotten plenty of money sticking with Shiv and her brothers in their play to take over, but he backstabbed her and then tried to pretend he didn’t- I think part of him truly hates her and he wants to be cruel to her but knows he can’t be openly cruel.

This is true, but it's notable that Shiv has ALWAYS been openly cruel to him, since the beginning of the show. She was very cruel to him on their wedding night, she was cruel throughout their marriage, she was cruel to him when it looked like he might get hung up with a prison sentence over the cruise fiasco. The thing that has changed is not her behavior but Tom's response to it. He never lashed back out at her like this back on those occasions. He might have said hurtful things (I can't remember) but he didn't go for the jugular in quite the same way, he just accepted a lot of the abuse.

I think on some level that realization last season that Shiv was fine with him going to prison (not like gleeful about it, but just fine with it, didn't really affect her either way) made him realize that simply sucking up to Shiv was never going to get him what he wants, which is to be fully and firmly a member of the family with all rights and privileges. I also think he loves Shiv, but his interest in her money and status is so completely tied to that love you can't separate them.

So he kind of snapped and now I think he simply cannot take the disrespect. He can't sit there and smile and laugh while his wife jokes that he's about to be fired and flirts with this billionaire. That thing he said about caring about his career -- I think he has come to view his career as the only valuable thing he might get out of his marriage, if he can salvage it, so it was a particularly low blow to have it tossed around as a joke at the party.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If Tom didn’t father Shiv’s baby, who did? They can’t spring a new baby daddy character on us in the last few episodes, can they?

No, it's def Tom. Why Shiv kept looking at him and suddenly felt ambivalent about their relationship, even giving it one final go.

The show runners have confirmed in a podcast that Tom is the father. For sure for sure, no more speculation.

I think that fight makes it slightly more likely that Shiv will terminate the pregnancy because right now her choices are awful. She can try to stick it out with Tom, knowing that he believe what he said about her and also knowing that he would probably stick it out anyway just to stay in proximity to the money and power. Or she can divorce him knowing that he will have parental rights and she will have to pay him probably a huge amount in child support (in divorces like this, child support can be massive because there is an expectation that the kids have some consistency in their lives between the rich parent and the not-rich parents, which means the rich parent forks over a lot of money for housing, tutoring, activities, private schools, etc. in order to make up for the difference in resources) plus they would be in each others lives for ever.

Shiv is in her 5th or 6th month, isn’t she? I’m guessing the super-rich can always pay someone to take care of it, but still it seems like a long-shot.

Neither Shiv nor Tom would make a great parent, but Tom might be marginally better.

How on earth can Tom NOT know that she’s pregnant? She looks different and they were sleeping together. You’d think he would have noticed or suspected.

Why isn’t she telling him??????

Full confession - I have become a little obsessed with this show.

I re-watched this episode and I think Tom knows she's pregnant. During their fight when he says he doesn't think she would be a very good mother the camera zooms in on Shiv and you can tell that really hit her lunch a punch in the gut, but her reaction is a weak, "Well, that's not a very nice thing to say, is it?" I'm not trying to go down a Lost type rabbit hole here, but if you cut out that part of the fight it's at a very different pace/level than the rest. Tom makes a big pause before he says that, and then Shiv has this very weak reaction - she doesn't attack Tom, she just kind of folds. And then they move on. Call me crazy, but this was a vicious fight and when Tom says that it's a perfect opening for Shiv to go for the jugular and really insult him where he's vulnerable, and she just doesn't.

^^ "like a punch in the gut," not lunch - LOL.

I more or less agree. He can't NOT know. I think he said that as a really low blow.

The way he paused and considered before he said it- I agree, I think he suspects, and said it to be a very low blow to her. He definitely has that side of him- to be incredibly cruel while maintaining plausible deniability about how cruel he is being.

This is a very insightful point about Tom. I also think his cruelty comes from being pretty intelligent and a good observer of other people, but he rarely gets to actually express these observations in this world because he knows he's an outsider and has to suck up to everyone, including his wife. It's why he's so cruel to Greg and sometimes to other underlings at Waystar (on the rare occasion we seem him interact with them). It's his chance to let his wit, which is naturally critical and cruel, come out.

Yes. He is almost sadistically cruel sometimes. He lets it all out on greg to get it out of his system but it simmers under the surface when he interacts with Shiv, for a while I’ve noticed. Like how he asked her father for divorce advice and put all the good lawyers on retainer before she could call them- and then acted sort of innocent about it when she called him. And how he betrayed her in the first place, even when he opened up honestly about it being about the money- he could have gotten plenty of money sticking with Shiv and her brothers in their play to take over, but he backstabbed her and then tried to pretend he didn’t- I think part of him truly hates her and he wants to be cruel to her but knows he can’t be openly cruel.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If Tom didn’t father Shiv’s baby, who did? They can’t spring a new baby daddy character on us in the last few episodes, can they?

No, it's def Tom. Why Shiv kept looking at him and suddenly felt ambivalent about their relationship, even giving it one final go.

The show runners have confirmed in a podcast that Tom is the father. For sure for sure, no more speculation.

I think that fight makes it slightly more likely that Shiv will terminate the pregnancy because right now her choices are awful. She can try to stick it out with Tom, knowing that he believe what he said about her and also knowing that he would probably stick it out anyway just to stay in proximity to the money and power. Or she can divorce him knowing that he will have parental rights and she will have to pay him probably a huge amount in child support (in divorces like this, child support can be massive because there is an expectation that the kids have some consistency in their lives between the rich parent and the not-rich parents, which means the rich parent forks over a lot of money for housing, tutoring, activities, private schools, etc. in order to make up for the difference in resources) plus they would be in each others lives for ever.

Shiv is in her 5th or 6th month, isn’t she? I’m guessing the super-rich can always pay someone to take care of it, but still it seems like a long-shot.

Neither Shiv nor Tom would make a great parent, but Tom might be marginally better.

How on earth can Tom NOT know that she’s pregnant? She looks different and they were sleeping together. You’d think he would have noticed or suspected.

Why isn’t she telling him??????

Full confession - I have become a little obsessed with this show.

I re-watched this episode and I think Tom knows she's pregnant. During their fight when he says he doesn't think she would be a very good mother the camera zooms in on Shiv and you can tell that really hit her lunch a punch in the gut, but her reaction is a weak, "Well, that's not a very nice thing to say, is it?" I'm not trying to go down a Lost type rabbit hole here, but if you cut out that part of the fight it's at a very different pace/level than the rest. Tom makes a big pause before he says that, and then Shiv has this very weak reaction - she doesn't attack Tom, she just kind of folds. And then they move on. Call me crazy, but this was a vicious fight and when Tom says that it's a perfect opening for Shiv to go for the jugular and really insult him where he's vulnerable, and she just doesn't.

^^ "like a punch in the gut," not lunch - LOL.

I more or less agree. He can't NOT know. I think he said that as a really low blow.

The way he paused and considered before he said it- I agree, I think he suspects, and said it to be a very low blow to her. He definitely has that side of him- to be incredibly cruel while maintaining plausible deniability about how cruel he is being.

This is a very insightful point about Tom. I also think his cruelty comes from being pretty intelligent and a good observer of other people, but he rarely gets to actually express these observations in this world because he knows he's an outsider and has to suck up to everyone, including his wife. It's why he's so cruel to Greg and sometimes to other underlings at Waystar (on the rare occasion we seem him interact with them). It's his chance to let his wit, which is naturally critical and cruel, come out.

Yes. He is almost sadistically cruel sometimes. He lets it all out on greg to get it out of his system but it simmers under the surface when he interacts with Shiv, for a while I’ve noticed. Like how he asked her father for divorce advice and put all the good lawyers on retainer before she could call them- and then acted sort of innocent about it when she called him. And how he betrayed her in the first place, even when he opened up honestly about it being about the money- he could have gotten plenty of money sticking with Shiv and her brothers in their play to take over, but he backstabbed her and then tried to pretend he didn’t- I think part of him truly hates her and he wants to be cruel to her but knows he can’t be openly cruel.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If Tom didn’t father Shiv’s baby, who did? They can’t spring a new baby daddy character on us in the last few episodes, can they?

No, it's def Tom. Why Shiv kept looking at him and suddenly felt ambivalent about their relationship, even giving it one final go.

The show runners have confirmed in a podcast that Tom is the father. For sure for sure, no more speculation.

I think that fight makes it slightly more likely that Shiv will terminate the pregnancy because right now her choices are awful. She can try to stick it out with Tom, knowing that he believe what he said about her and also knowing that he would probably stick it out anyway just to stay in proximity to the money and power. Or she can divorce him knowing that he will have parental rights and she will have to pay him probably a huge amount in child support (in divorces like this, child support can be massive because there is an expectation that the kids have some consistency in their lives between the rich parent and the not-rich parents, which means the rich parent forks over a lot of money for housing, tutoring, activities, private schools, etc. in order to make up for the difference in resources) plus they would be in each others lives for ever.

Shiv is in her 5th or 6th month, isn’t she? I’m guessing the super-rich can always pay someone to take care of it, but still it seems like a long-shot.

Neither Shiv nor Tom would make a great parent, but Tom might be marginally better.

How on earth can Tom NOT know that she’s pregnant? She looks different and they were sleeping together. You’d think he would have noticed or suspected.

Why isn’t she telling him??????

Full confession - I have become a little obsessed with this show.

I re-watched this episode and I think Tom knows she's pregnant. During their fight when he says he doesn't think she would be a very good mother the camera zooms in on Shiv and you can tell that really hit her lunch a punch in the gut, but her reaction is a weak, "Well, that's not a very nice thing to say, is it?" I'm not trying to go down a Lost type rabbit hole here, but if you cut out that part of the fight it's at a very different pace/level than the rest. Tom makes a big pause before he says that, and then Shiv has this very weak reaction - she doesn't attack Tom, she just kind of folds. And then they move on. Call me crazy, but this was a vicious fight and when Tom says that it's a perfect opening for Shiv to go for the jugular and really insult him where he's vulnerable, and she just doesn't.

^^ "like a punch in the gut," not lunch - LOL.

I more or less agree. He can't NOT know. I think he said that as a really low blow.

The way he paused and considered before he said it- I agree, I think he suspects, and said it to be a very low blow to her. He definitely has that side of him- to be incredibly cruel while maintaining plausible deniability about how cruel he is being.

This is a very insightful point about Tom. I also think his cruelty comes from being pretty intelligent and a good observer of other people, but he rarely gets to actually express these observations in this world because he knows he's an outsider and has to suck up to everyone, including his wife. It's why he's so cruel to Greg and sometimes to other underlings at Waystar (on the rare occasion we seem him interact with them). It's his chance to let his wit, which is naturally critical and cruel, come out.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If Tom didn’t father Shiv’s baby, who did? They can’t spring a new baby daddy character on us in the last few episodes, can they?

No, it's def Tom. Why Shiv kept looking at him and suddenly felt ambivalent about their relationship, even giving it one final go.

The show runners have confirmed in a podcast that Tom is the father. For sure for sure, no more speculation.

I think that fight makes it slightly more likely that Shiv will terminate the pregnancy because right now her choices are awful. She can try to stick it out with Tom, knowing that he believe what he said about her and also knowing that he would probably stick it out anyway just to stay in proximity to the money and power. Or she can divorce him knowing that he will have parental rights and she will have to pay him probably a huge amount in child support (in divorces like this, child support can be massive because there is an expectation that the kids have some consistency in their lives between the rich parent and the not-rich parents, which means the rich parent forks over a lot of money for housing, tutoring, activities, private schools, etc. in order to make up for the difference in resources) plus they would be in each others lives for ever.

Shiv is in her 5th or 6th month, isn’t she? I’m guessing the super-rich can always pay someone to take care of it, but still it seems like a long-shot.

Neither Shiv nor Tom would make a great parent, but Tom might be marginally better.

How on earth can Tom NOT know that she’s pregnant? She looks different and they were sleeping together. You’d think he would have noticed or suspected.

Why isn’t she telling him??????

Full confession - I have become a little obsessed with this show.

I re-watched this episode and I think Tom knows she's pregnant. During their fight when he says he doesn't think she would be a very good mother the camera zooms in on Shiv and you can tell that really hit her lunch a punch in the gut, but her reaction is a weak, "Well, that's not a very nice thing to say, is it?" I'm not trying to go down a Lost type rabbit hole here, but if you cut out that part of the fight it's at a very different pace/level than the rest. Tom makes a big pause before he says that, and then Shiv has this very weak reaction - she doesn't attack Tom, she just kind of folds. And then they move on. Call me crazy, but this was a vicious fight and when Tom says that it's a perfect opening for Shiv to go for the jugular and really insult him where he's vulnerable, and she just doesn't.

^^ "like a punch in the gut," not lunch - LOL.

I more or less agree. He can't NOT know. I think he said that as a really low blow.

The way he paused and considered before he said it- I agree, I think he suspects, and said it to be a very low blow to her. He definitely has that side of him- to be incredibly cruel while maintaining plausible deniability about how cruel he is being.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If Tom didn’t father Shiv’s baby, who did? They can’t spring a new baby daddy character on us in the last few episodes, can they?

No, it's def Tom. Why Shiv kept looking at him and suddenly felt ambivalent about their relationship, even giving it one final go.

The show runners have confirmed in a podcast that Tom is the father. For sure for sure, no more speculation.

I think that fight makes it slightly more likely that Shiv will terminate the pregnancy because right now her choices are awful. She can try to stick it out with Tom, knowing that he believe what he said about her and also knowing that he would probably stick it out anyway just to stay in proximity to the money and power. Or she can divorce him knowing that he will have parental rights and she will have to pay him probably a huge amount in child support (in divorces like this, child support can be massive because there is an expectation that the kids have some consistency in their lives between the rich parent and the not-rich parents, which means the rich parent forks over a lot of money for housing, tutoring, activities, private schools, etc. in order to make up for the difference in resources) plus they would be in each others lives for ever.

Shiv is in her 5th or 6th month, isn’t she? I’m guessing the super-rich can always pay someone to take care of it, but still it seems like a long-shot.

Neither Shiv nor Tom would make a great parent, but Tom might be marginally better.

How on earth can Tom NOT know that she’s pregnant? She looks different and they were sleeping together. You’d think he would have noticed or suspected.

Why isn’t she telling him??????

Full confession - I have become a little obsessed with this show.

I re-watched this episode and I think Tom knows she's pregnant. During their fight when he says he doesn't think she would be a very good mother the camera zooms in on Shiv and you can tell that really hit her lunch a punch in the gut, but her reaction is a weak, "Well, that's not a very nice thing to say, is it?" I'm not trying to go down a Lost type rabbit hole here, but if you cut out that part of the fight it's at a very different pace/level than the rest. Tom makes a big pause before he says that, and then Shiv has this very weak reaction - she doesn't attack Tom, she just kind of folds. And then they move on. Call me crazy, but this was a vicious fight and when Tom says that it's a perfect opening for Shiv to go for the jugular and really insult him where he's vulnerable, and she just doesn't.

^^ "like a punch in the gut," not lunch - LOL.

I more or less agree. He can't NOT know. I think he said that as a really low blow.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If Tom didn’t father Shiv’s baby, who did? They can’t spring a new baby daddy character on us in the last few episodes, can they?

No, it's def Tom. Why Shiv kept looking at him and suddenly felt ambivalent about their relationship, even giving it one final go.

The show runners have confirmed in a podcast that Tom is the father. For sure for sure, no more speculation.

I think that fight makes it slightly more likely that Shiv will terminate the pregnancy because right now her choices are awful. She can try to stick it out with Tom, knowing that he believe what he said about her and also knowing that he would probably stick it out anyway just to stay in proximity to the money and power. Or she can divorce him knowing that he will have parental rights and she will have to pay him probably a huge amount in child support (in divorces like this, child support can be massive because there is an expectation that the kids have some consistency in their lives between the rich parent and the not-rich parents, which means the rich parent forks over a lot of money for housing, tutoring, activities, private schools, etc. in order to make up for the difference in resources) plus they would be in each others lives for ever.

Shiv is in her 5th or 6th month, isn’t she? I’m guessing the super-rich can always pay someone to take care of it, but still it seems like a long-shot.

Neither Shiv nor Tom would make a great parent, but Tom might be marginally better.

How on earth can Tom NOT know that she’s pregnant? She looks different and they were sleeping together. You’d think he would have noticed or suspected.

Why isn’t she telling him??????

Full confession - I have become a little obsessed with this show.

I re-watched this episode and I think Tom knows she's pregnant. During their fight when he says he doesn't think she would be a very good mother the camera zooms in on Shiv and you can tell that really hit her lunch a punch in the gut, but her reaction is a weak, "Well, that's not a very nice thing to say, is it?" I'm not trying to go down a Lost type rabbit hole here, but if you cut out that part of the fight it's at a very different pace/level than the rest. Tom makes a big pause before he says that, and then Shiv has this very weak reaction - she doesn't attack Tom, she just kind of folds. And then they move on. Call me crazy, but this was a vicious fight and when Tom says that it's a perfect opening for Shiv to go for the jugular and really insult him where he's vulnerable, and she just doesn't.

Yeah, I wondered about this too. It seems like he might at least suspect? It's hard to imagine that he is seeing her totally naked at 20+ weeks and not realizing that she's pregnant. But then, it seems like despite all their problems he would be over the moon about having a baby with Shiv and would not want her to terminate. And he was so harsh about it, which he has to know would push her in that direction.

Anonymous wrote:The Shiv actor was asked on the Succession podcast why she hadn't told Tom yet and she said events (like her father's death) just got in the way. It hasn't been very long since the death.

Listening to her on the podcast, it kind of sounds like she wins the company from Ronan and Kendall. I think she is definitely going to use Kendall's murder against him to come out ahead.

Here's my idea: Tom stays up all night soul searching how to come out ahead. He talks to Shiv in the morning: They have their differences but let's figure the company out first. I'm going to go over with Kendall and Roman and will report back to you without telling them. Meanwhile Shiv works with the Swede to get the company for him. Then something something something, and Shiv uses Kendall's murder to get him out of the #1 spot.

Not sure Tom going back to work with Shiv is plausible now but it would be entertaining.

Not sure whether Kendall's plan to pillage the village works in the meanwhile.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If Tom didn’t father Shiv’s baby, who did? They can’t spring a new baby daddy character on us in the last few episodes, can they?

No, it's def Tom. Why Shiv kept looking at him and suddenly felt ambivalent about their relationship, even giving it one final go.

The show runners have confirmed in a podcast that Tom is the father. For sure for sure, no more speculation.

I think that fight makes it slightly more likely that Shiv will terminate the pregnancy because right now her choices are awful. She can try to stick it out with Tom, knowing that he believe what he said about her and also knowing that he would probably stick it out anyway just to stay in proximity to the money and power. Or she can divorce him knowing that he will have parental rights and she will have to pay him probably a huge amount in child support (in divorces like this, child support can be massive because there is an expectation that the kids have some consistency in their lives between the rich parent and the not-rich parents, which means the rich parent forks over a lot of money for housing, tutoring, activities, private schools, etc. in order to make up for the difference in resources) plus they would be in each others lives for ever.

Shiv is in her 5th or 6th month, isn’t she? I’m guessing the super-rich can always pay someone to take care of it, but still it seems like a long-shot.

Neither Shiv nor Tom would make a great parent, but Tom might be marginally better.

How on earth can Tom NOT know that she’s pregnant? She looks different and they were sleeping together. You’d think he would have noticed or suspected.

Why isn’t she telling him??????

Full confession - I have become a little obsessed with this show.

I re-watched this episode and I think Tom knows she's pregnant. During their fight when he says he doesn't think she would be a very good mother the camera zooms in on Shiv and you can tell that really hit her lunch a punch in the gut, but her reaction is a weak, "Well, that's not a very nice thing to say, is it?" I'm not trying to go down a Lost type rabbit hole here, but if you cut out that part of the fight it's at a very different pace/level than the rest. Tom makes a big pause before he says that, and then Shiv has this very weak reaction - she doesn't attack Tom, she just kind of folds. And then they move on. Call me crazy, but this was a vicious fight and when Tom says that it's a perfect opening for Shiv to go for the jugular and really insult him where he's vulnerable, and she just doesn't.

^^ "like a punch in the gut," not lunch - LOL.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If Tom didn’t father Shiv’s baby, who did? They can’t spring a new baby daddy character on us in the last few episodes, can they?

No, it's def Tom. Why Shiv kept looking at him and suddenly felt ambivalent about their relationship, even giving it one final go.

The show runners have confirmed in a podcast that Tom is the father. For sure for sure, no more speculation.

I think that fight makes it slightly more likely that Shiv will terminate the pregnancy because right now her choices are awful. She can try to stick it out with Tom, knowing that he believe what he said about her and also knowing that he would probably stick it out anyway just to stay in proximity to the money and power. Or she can divorce him knowing that he will have parental rights and she will have to pay him probably a huge amount in child support (in divorces like this, child support can be massive because there is an expectation that the kids have some consistency in their lives between the rich parent and the not-rich parents, which means the rich parent forks over a lot of money for housing, tutoring, activities, private schools, etc. in order to make up for the difference in resources) plus they would be in each others lives for ever.

Shiv is in her 5th or 6th month, isn’t she? I’m guessing the super-rich can always pay someone to take care of it, but still it seems like a long-shot.

Neither Shiv nor Tom would make a great parent, but Tom might be marginally better.

How on earth can Tom NOT know that she’s pregnant? She looks different and they were sleeping together. You’d think he would have noticed or suspected.

Why isn’t she telling him??????

Full confession - I have become a little obsessed with this show.

I re-watched this episode and I think Tom knows she's pregnant. During their fight when he says he doesn't think she would be a very good mother the camera zooms in on Shiv and you can tell that really hit her lunch a punch in the gut, but her reaction is a weak, "Well, that's not a very nice thing to say, is it?" I'm not trying to go down a Lost type rabbit hole here, but if you cut out that part of the fight it's at a very different pace/level than the rest. Tom makes a big pause before he says that, and then Shiv has this very weak reaction - she doesn't attack Tom, she just kind of folds. And then they move on. Call me crazy, but this was a vicious fight and when Tom says that it's a perfect opening for Shiv to go for the jugular and really insult him where he's vulnerable, and she just doesn't.

Yeah, I wondered about this too. It seems like he might at least suspect? It's hard to imagine that he is seeing her totally naked at 20+ weeks and not realizing that she's pregnant. But then, it seems like despite all their problems he would be over the moon about having a baby with Shiv and would not want her to terminate. And he was so harsh about it, which he has to know would push her in that direction.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If Tom didn’t father Shiv’s baby, who did? They can’t spring a new baby daddy character on us in the last few episodes, can they?

No, it's def Tom. Why Shiv kept looking at him and suddenly felt ambivalent about their relationship, even giving it one final go.

The show runners have confirmed in a podcast that Tom is the father. For sure for sure, no more speculation.

I think that fight makes it slightly more likely that Shiv will terminate the pregnancy because right now her choices are awful. She can try to stick it out with Tom, knowing that he believe what he said about her and also knowing that he would probably stick it out anyway just to stay in proximity to the money and power. Or she can divorce him knowing that he will have parental rights and she will have to pay him probably a huge amount in child support (in divorces like this, child support can be massive because there is an expectation that the kids have some consistency in their lives between the rich parent and the not-rich parents, which means the rich parent forks over a lot of money for housing, tutoring, activities, private schools, etc. in order to make up for the difference in resources) plus they would be in each others lives for ever.

Shiv is in her 5th or 6th month, isn’t she? I’m guessing the super-rich can always pay someone to take care of it, but still it seems like a long-shot.

Neither Shiv nor Tom would make a great parent, but Tom might be marginally better.

How on earth can Tom NOT know that she’s pregnant? She looks different and they were sleeping together. You’d think he would have noticed or suspected.

Why isn’t she telling him??????

Full confession - I have become a little obsessed with this show.

I re-watched this episode and I think Tom knows she's pregnant. During their fight when he says he doesn't think she would be a very good mother the camera zooms in on Shiv and you can tell that really hit her lunch a punch in the gut, but her reaction is a weak, "Well, that's not a very nice thing to say, is it?" I'm not trying to go down a Lost type rabbit hole here, but if you cut out that part of the fight it's at a very different pace/level than the rest. Tom makes a big pause before he says that, and then Shiv has this very weak reaction - she doesn't attack Tom, she just kind of folds. And then they move on. Call me crazy, but this was a vicious fight and when Tom says that it's a perfect opening for Shiv to go for the jugular and really insult him where he's vulnerable, and she just doesn't.

Anonymous wrote:The Shiv actor was asked on the Succession podcast why she hadn't told Tom yet and she said events (like her father's death) just got in the way. It hasn't been very long since the death.

Listening to her on the podcast, it kind of sounds like she wins the company from Ronan and Kendall. I think she is definitely going to use Kendall's murder against him to come out ahead.

Here's my idea: Tom stays up all night soul searching how to come out ahead. He talks to Shiv in the morning: They have their differences but let's figure the company out first. I'm going to go over with Kendall and Roman and will report back to you without telling them. Meanwhile Shiv works with the Swede to get the company for him. Then something something something, and Shiv uses Kendall's murder to get him out of the #1 spot.

Not sure Tom going back to work with Shiv is plausible now but it would be entertaining.

Not sure whether Kendall's plan to pillage the village works in the meanwhile.