Anonymous
08/08/2023 22:30
Subject: Re:College Football--Big Ten Expansion
Anonymous wrote:The ACC is spooked and a bit panicked by the words and actions of FSU in light of the collapse of the Pac-12.
SMU wants in a Power 4 Conference and is willing to fund itself for the first several years of membership.
Cal & Stanford are desperate, in a state of shock, and fighting for the survival of their athletics programs.
All this suggests that the ACC will do everything that it can to facilitate expansion of its football partners.
Travelling cross country will be too much for the non-football sports at Cal & Stanford so these schools will have to strip away those non-revenue sports (and maybe basketball as well) and get the non-revenue sports with weekday game schedules affiliated with schools not in the cross country ACC.
Has the Big Ten Conference thought this through ? Or do the Big Ten members believe that time & patience is on their side ? meaning that Stanford & Cal football will be available a year or two later if desired by the Big Ten because the geographical separation/travel distance to ACC country will be too much of a burden.
Maybe the Big Ten Conference only wants the value of big time college football programs such as Notre Dame, FSU, U Miami, and UNC or even Georgia Tech or Virginia.
Both the SEC & the Big Ten Conference can afford to wait and both can afford to do nothing as both have their hands full with incoming expansion teams next year.
Have heard this is an option from someone who is well connected in college AD circles.
Anonymous
08/08/2023 22:09
Subject: Re:College Football--Big Ten Expansion
Still missing would be a foothold in the state of Texas for the Big Ten Conference.
Anonymous
08/08/2023 22:07
Subject: Re:College Football--Big Ten Expansion
Notre Dame has a new athletic director. I wonder if he is as set on independence as is/was the outgoing AD.
Maybe wishful thinking, but I suspect that the Big Ten Conference and Notre Dame are closely watching and waiting out the current round of panicked realignment moves generated by the collapse of the Pac-12.
If Notre Dame and the Big Ten Conference decide to marry, it will be a long and fruitful marriage.
Will the Big Ten Conference stop expansion at 20 teams from its current 18 member roster ? If so, must one of those teams be Notre Dame ?
Or will the Big Ten Conference march on to become a 24 team conference if the ACC splits up ?
The Big Ten Conference would definitely offer Notre Dame (standing offer), UNC, Virginia, U Miami, Georgia Tech, and, possibly, FSU. That is six teams. Back-ups could be Stanford, NC State, and maybe Duke.
Maybe wishful thinking, but I suspect that the Big Ten Conference and Notre Dame are closely watching and waiting out the current round of panicked realignment moves generated by the collapse of the Pac-12.
If Notre Dame and the Big Ten Conference decide to marry, it will be a long and fruitful marriage.
Will the Big Ten Conference stop expansion at 20 teams from its current 18 member roster ? If so, must one of those teams be Notre Dame ?
Or will the Big Ten Conference march on to become a 24 team conference if the ACC splits up ?
The Big Ten Conference would definitely offer Notre Dame (standing offer), UNC, Virginia, U Miami, Georgia Tech, and, possibly, FSU. That is six teams. Back-ups could be Stanford, NC State, and maybe Duke.
Anonymous
08/08/2023 21:44
Subject: Re:College Football--Big Ten Expansion
The ACC is spooked and a bit panicked by the words and actions of FSU in light of the collapse of the Pac-12.
SMU wants in a Power 4 Conference and is willing to fund itself for the first several years of membership.
Cal & Stanford are desperate, in a state of shock, and fighting for the survival of their athletics programs.
All this suggests that the ACC will do everything that it can to facilitate expansion of its football partners.
Travelling cross country will be too much for the non-football sports at Cal & Stanford so these schools will have to strip away those non-revenue sports (and maybe basketball as well) and get the non-revenue sports with weekday game schedules affiliated with schools not in the cross country ACC.
Has the Big Ten Conference thought this through ? Or do the Big Ten members believe that time & patience is on their side ? meaning that Stanford & Cal football will be available a year or two later if desired by the Big Ten because the geographical separation/travel distance to ACC country will be too much of a burden.
Maybe the Big Ten Conference only wants the value of big time college football programs such as Notre Dame, FSU, U Miami, and UNC or even Georgia Tech or Virginia.
Both the SEC & the Big Ten Conference can afford to wait and both can afford to do nothing as both have their hands full with incoming expansion teams next year.
SMU wants in a Power 4 Conference and is willing to fund itself for the first several years of membership.
Cal & Stanford are desperate, in a state of shock, and fighting for the survival of their athletics programs.
All this suggests that the ACC will do everything that it can to facilitate expansion of its football partners.
Travelling cross country will be too much for the non-football sports at Cal & Stanford so these schools will have to strip away those non-revenue sports (and maybe basketball as well) and get the non-revenue sports with weekday game schedules affiliated with schools not in the cross country ACC.
Has the Big Ten Conference thought this through ? Or do the Big Ten members believe that time & patience is on their side ? meaning that Stanford & Cal football will be available a year or two later if desired by the Big Ten because the geographical separation/travel distance to ACC country will be too much of a burden.
Maybe the Big Ten Conference only wants the value of big time college football programs such as Notre Dame, FSU, U Miami, and UNC or even Georgia Tech or Virginia.
Both the SEC & the Big Ten Conference can afford to wait and both can afford to do nothing as both have their hands full with incoming expansion teams next year.
Anonymous
08/08/2023 19:58
Subject: College Football--Big Ten Expansion
Anonymous
08/08/2023 19:30
Subject: College Football--Big Ten Expansion
“Sure but you are going the wrong way. They could care less how many people are in the seats. It is who watches on TV.”
First, I appreciate that you didn’t call me a moron like so many others here feel compelled to do when they disagree with somebody.
Second, excellent point about TV viewership being most important.
Third, I still think it’s going to be a bit of a problem when TV cameras show tons of empty seats in the stadia…I know I feel a bit deflated when a game I’m watching on TV doesn’t even attract many locals. Few fan bases are as loyal as the Nebraska fans that another poster referenced (and in addition to Nebraska’s fans IN their stadium there are thousands in bars very close to the stadium).
First, I appreciate that you didn’t call me a moron like so many others here feel compelled to do when they disagree with somebody.
Second, excellent point about TV viewership being most important.
Third, I still think it’s going to be a bit of a problem when TV cameras show tons of empty seats in the stadia…I know I feel a bit deflated when a game I’m watching on TV doesn’t even attract many locals. Few fan bases are as loyal as the Nebraska fans that another poster referenced (and in addition to Nebraska’s fans IN their stadium there are thousands in bars very close to the stadium).
Anonymous
08/08/2023 19:15
Subject: Re:College Football--Big Ten Expansion
The UCLA home games will probably look like many of the Maryland ones in the B1G. Decent attendance because almost half the fans are cheering for the visitors!
Anonymous
08/08/2023 19:13
Subject: College Football--Big Ten Expansion
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think in this thread there is a lack of understanding about what is important to the high academic schools.
Stanford does not recruit against Cal. Much like ND their base is national.
And it is smart. Will they dip to a solid B student who as no chance of getting in otherwise but is solid as a student and a great receiver-- yes. A few recruits. Most of the rest are A students. They are going to Stanford because they are smart and because they are really good at football. There are maybe 5 kids that would be recruited by both Stanford and Alabama.
What is important to Stanford as a university is to play good games against good teams so that the rest of the student body has a break from learning to change the universe. National Title run? Great. But it is a adjunct to the school, the tail not the dog.
That is what they care about.
Duke and BC are somewhat similar even if lower ranked by USNWS. BC is not taking C students on their teams. It is what has killed them in basketball. Duke makes exceptions for basketball and only a little for football.
In football neither wants to compete for a national championship. If they got one, great. But that is not the goal. They want games against Clemson, Miami, FSU that they win or lose but that students and alums like. For BC it is ok to beat FSU only once in a while so the kids can storm the field.
Those schools want a top conference for the games.
These schools (and Wake most likely) have different motivations.
That is why this is difficult. If everyone wanted just football glory or money this would be easy. But there is more of an agenda here for a number of the schools.
Oh please. Of course Stanford competes for top recruits in football. The vast majority of “qualified” recruits are not in the slightest bit interested in playing for a mediocre program with limited television exposure. Their base is National like ND? You can’t be serious. Almost nobody cares about Stanford football nationally. You’re conflating high quality academics with major athletics. Stanford excels in academics of course and in the esoteric sports that draw little interest from the vast majority of the country.
Duke makes huge concessions for basketball. Notre Dame makes large concessions for football as well. You make it sound like all of these schools are so much more concerned about all of their athletes being top student in academics than other top schools who do compete. It’s simply not true.
Not ND and not Duke in basketball but Stanford cares about it a lot.
Stanford recruits well nationally in football and basketball. They have minimal academic thresholds higher than the ND and Duke but also make major admissions concessions. In basketball they have a McDonald's All American coming in this year and have had 2 one-and-done players in the last few years. In football, since 2010, Stanford went to 3 Rose bowls, a Fiesta Bowl, and an Orange Bowl. They've had a few down seasons but the quality of the product is generally pretty good. The lack of campus support, alumni following, and Bay Area interest are the issue. Maybe Phil Knight will step up and help his other alma mater a little more!
Anonymous
08/08/2023 18:42
Subject: Re:College Football--Big Ten Expansion
Anonymous wrote:It will be a mess if Cal & Stanford join the ACC. The travel will be too much & too expensive.
Reports share that the ACC was considering adding 5 Pac-12 teams. This suggests to me that the ACC was thinking about a western division of the ACC. Would probably need 6 or 7 teams to form 3 divisions in the ACC.
I agree it will be tough for the non-football sports. Not so much for football.
Anonymous
08/08/2023 18:41
Subject: College Football--Big Ten Expansion
Anonymous wrote:What if all this realignment stuff only serves to highlight the need for meaningful competitions and rivalries to involve more than just being in the same conference?
For years they have been trying to cultivate a rivalry between Penn State and Michigan State, but it never materializes because there is no history, no shared border, no population center where their graduates work side-by-side, etc.
UCLA’s s schedule is likely to include games against Iowa, Nebraska, Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Illinois. How many of those games are going to get fans on either side excited?
I wonder if the Stanford administrators are thinking about this when they consider the ACC. If they couldn’t fill their stadium when they played USC last year, how many will show up to see them face off against Louisville? Can’t wait to see the “Cardinal vs Cardinals!” hype draw 20k fans.
Sure but you are going the wrong way. They could care less how many people are in the seats. It is who watches on TV.
Anonymous
08/08/2023 18:29
Subject: College Football--Big Ten Expansion
Anonymous wrote:What if all this realignment stuff only serves to highlight the need for meaningful competitions and rivalries to involve more than just being in the same conference?
For years they have been trying to cultivate a rivalry between Penn State and Michigan State, but it never materializes because there is no history, no shared border, no population center where their graduates work side-by-side, etc.
UCLA’s s schedule is likely to include games against Iowa, Nebraska, Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Illinois. How many of those games are going to get fans on either side excited?
I wonder if the Stanford administrators are thinking about this when they consider the ACC. If they couldn’t fill their stadium when they played USC last year, how many will show up to see them face off against Louisville? Can’t wait to see the “Cardinal vs Cardinals!” hype draw 20k fans.
Nebraska always sells out. Most loyal fans in college football.
Anonymous
08/08/2023 18:18
Subject: College Football--Big Ten Expansion
What if all this realignment stuff only serves to highlight the need for meaningful competitions and rivalries to involve more than just being in the same conference?
For years they have been trying to cultivate a rivalry between Penn State and Michigan State, but it never materializes because there is no history, no shared border, no population center where their graduates work side-by-side, etc.
UCLA’s s schedule is likely to include games against Iowa, Nebraska, Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Illinois. How many of those games are going to get fans on either side excited?
I wonder if the Stanford administrators are thinking about this when they consider the ACC. If they couldn’t fill their stadium when they played USC last year, how many will show up to see them face off against Louisville? Can’t wait to see the “Cardinal vs Cardinals!” hype draw 20k fans.
For years they have been trying to cultivate a rivalry between Penn State and Michigan State, but it never materializes because there is no history, no shared border, no population center where their graduates work side-by-side, etc.
UCLA’s s schedule is likely to include games against Iowa, Nebraska, Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Illinois. How many of those games are going to get fans on either side excited?
I wonder if the Stanford administrators are thinking about this when they consider the ACC. If they couldn’t fill their stadium when they played USC last year, how many will show up to see them face off against Louisville? Can’t wait to see the “Cardinal vs Cardinals!” hype draw 20k fans.
Anonymous
08/08/2023 18:11
Subject: Re:College Football--Big Ten Expansion
It will be a mess if Cal & Stanford join the ACC. The travel will be too much & too expensive.
Reports share that the ACC was considering adding 5 Pac-12 teams. This suggests to me that the ACC was thinking about a western division of the ACC. Would probably need 6 or 7 teams to form 3 divisions in the ACC.
Reports share that the ACC was considering adding 5 Pac-12 teams. This suggests to me that the ACC was thinking about a western division of the ACC. Would probably need 6 or 7 teams to form 3 divisions in the ACC.
Anonymous
08/08/2023 17:56
Subject: College Football--Big Ten Expansion
Anonymous wrote:Yahoo sports is reporting that ACC looking at Cal, Stanford, and SMU.
In the same article it said that there is a provision in the ACC/ESPN deal that requires ESPN to increase the payout if there are new members so that all members are paid the same.
Not sure what that means in practice.
https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-acc-considering-smu-in-addition-to-cal-and-stanford-in-expansion-talks-205526422.html
(OP here)
I read the article. Somewhere around paragraph #8 & paragraph #9, the article seems to present contradictory material regarding whether CAl & Stanford need to be paid an equal amount or will need to take partial shares.
SMU is willing to forego any payout for several years according to the yahoo article.
Anonymous
08/08/2023 17:50
Subject: Re:College Football--Big Ten Expansion
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It's too quiet. Something is going on at FSU. The school is serious about leaving the ACC. Hired fancy inverstment bank and brought in a top private equity firm.
DEADLINE to inform the ACC of intention to leave is in one week from today--August 15, 2023.
They are going nowhere this year. It is quiet because it is.
(OP here)
We will all know within 7 days as the deadline is August 15, 2023.
My best guess is that FSU will notify the ACC next week that it intends to leave the conference. Could be a negotiating tactic, could be serious, could be both.
We will find out!
But they cannot go anywhere. With the GOR no one would make them an offer. FSU is stuck
In addition to the fancy investment bank & fancy private equity firm, FSU has a bevy of fancy lawyers.
That is not going to help here as has been discussed in this thread. Unless there is an agreed exit they can leave but no one would take them. If an actual negotiated deal fine. But if they just say they are leaving they will have no home until the litigation ends.
You haven't kept an open mind when reading this thread. You simply believe that all others agree with you. You are wrong.