Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Facts matter. The right has "won" again on this thanks to a corrupt court and the Federalist Society that has perfected gaming the system.

Is it your belief that no Asian Americans feel aggrieved by the recent admissions practices at elite colleges and universities?

These schools have single digit admit rates. No one is entitled to gain acceptance. The fact is, the Asian population makes up X percent of the US population. Asian students make up X+++ at these elite schools. They are already oversampled. Do you think the student bodies should just be all Asian students?

You didn't answer my question.

To answer yours, no.

By your logic, African-Americas are also "oversampled" in the Harvard student body. Weird.

Yes, I believe there are Asian-Americans who feel aggrieved. There are also whites, blacks, women, gays, lesbians and others who feel aggrieved too. Tons of kids who worked their tails off and were certainly qualified to be considered for schools like Harvard. But a manufactured lawsuit that complains about a fictional "less deserving black student" over the more deserving Asian student is ridiculous.

So a black son of a biglaw partner from from McClean is more deserving than an Asian daughter of poor, recent immigrants with better stats?

These policies were on a path toward creating a class within a class wherein privileged black kids had their places essentially secured at these elite schools by dint of their privilege with numbers that were incomparable to their similarly (though not exactly the same) privileged peers. Similarly enough, these educated professional class types were also the chief beneficiaries reaping the largess flowing from BLM and DEI initiatives while leaving everybody in the hood still poor and downtrodden and settling in their wealthy enclaves with other elites.

These institutions wanted to have their cake and eat it too. Wanted to keep "acceptable" diversity figures, while keeping a sufficient quotient of full-pay students and keeping minority retention/attrition rates from looking like a complete mockery AND pretending that they are doing the lord's work by throwing a kid from the trenches a scholarship every now and then. They should just own that they are instruments for the perpetuation of generational privilege and keep the song and dance.

Surely these games are not the answer.

You all keep citing this one example. My response, I don't know, I am not in the admissions office and not responsible for the composition of a class of incoming students. What I do know, having two kids very recently gone through the college admissions process, is that the schools weigh many factors into each applicant - can they do the work, what in their background makes them a unique applicant, what will they study? What does our school need in terms of students who will contribute to the school community, be it as a writer for a student newspaper, an actor, a musician, an athlete, whatever. So I don't know anything beyond what you have posted that is bolded. Assuming both students scored well enough (your scenario says the Asian student has better stats) - maybe the Asian student wants to go into engineering and the stats for that are not the same as the African-American applicant, who in addition to stats that are good enough for the school, also plans to major in English, has won writing awards, and also plans to continue their acting career in the school's theater department? Whereas the Asian student comes from a less advantaged background, has good stats, never worked a job, didn't do much otherwise in terms of extracurriculars etc.

See the dilemma these schools face? Provide more context for both students AND the school, and then we can play the game. In fact, this is an exercise my kids school does with the parents of juniors early in junior year, so parents can understand what the Admissions officers are up against with these applications.

As others have noted in the college thread over the last several years, with grade inflation, the watering down of the SAT etc, the fact is, there are tens of thousands of "good" students with "strong stats" and tons of awesome extracurriculars and volunteer service. All of that is good enough to get tossed into a viable admissions pool, so you go from the 50,000 applications down to 12,000 applications for the same 2,000 spots. From there it is a whole host of non-academic considerations.

And still, there are more Asians relative to the general population and fewer blacks relative to the general population.

Now, post SCOTUS decision, I am willing to bet that neither of the applicants you note, will gain admission to these schools. Oh well.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Facts matter. The right has "won" again on this thanks to a corrupt court and the Federalist Society that has perfected gaming the system.

Is it your belief that no Asian Americans feel aggrieved by the recent admissions practices at elite colleges and universities?

These schools have single digit admit rates. No one is entitled to gain acceptance. The fact is, the Asian population makes up X percent of the US population. Asian students make up X+++ at these elite schools. They are already oversampled. Do you think the student bodies should just be all Asian students?

You didn't answer my question.

To answer yours, no.

By your logic, African-Americas are also "oversampled" in the Harvard student body. Weird.

Yes, I believe there are Asian-Americans who feel aggrieved. There are also whites, blacks, women, gays, lesbians and others who feel aggrieved too. Tons of kids who worked their tails off and were certainly qualified to be considered for schools like Harvard. But a manufactured lawsuit that complains about a fictional "less deserving black student" over the more deserving Asian student is ridiculous.

So a black son of a biglaw partner from from McClean is more deserving than an Asian daughter of poor, recent immigrants with better stats?

These policies were on a path toward creating a class within a class wherein privileged black kids had their places essentially secured at these elite schools by dint of their privilege with numbers that were incomparable to their similarly (though not exactly the same) privileged peers. Similarly enough, these educated professional class types were also the chief beneficiaries reaping the largess flowing from BLM and DEI initiatives while leaving everybody in the hood still poor and downtrodden and settling in their wealthy enclaves with other elites.

These institutions wanted to have their cake and eat it too. Wanted to keep "acceptable" diversity figures, while keeping a sufficient quotient of full-pay students and keeping minority retention/attrition rates from looking like a complete mockery AND pretending that they are doing the lord's work by throwing a kid from the trenches a scholarship every now and then. They should just own that they are instruments for the perpetuation of generational privilege and keep the song and dance.

Surely these games are not the answer.

So the “liberal” Twitter account that Republicans love to mock turns out to be a fake hoax account created specifically by trolls to say stupid shit that right-wingers could say represented all liberals. This is the account that Tweeted “no Black person will be able to succeed in a merit-based system,” which some troll posted in this thread a few days ago. I thought it was obvious that was a fake troll post at the time but I guess some of you are that gullible.

A viral left-wing Twitter account may have been fake all along
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/07/04/twitter-erica-marsh-suspended/

The vast majority of the public is against affirmative racism. The citizens finally catch a break

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Facts matter. The right has "won" again on this thanks to a corrupt court and the Federalist Society that has perfected gaming the system.

Is it your belief that no Asian Americans feel aggrieved by the recent admissions practices at elite colleges and universities?

These schools have single digit admit rates. No one is entitled to gain acceptance. The fact is, the Asian population makes up X percent of the US population. Asian students make up X+++ at these elite schools. They are already oversampled. Do you think the student bodies should just be all Asian students?

You didn't answer my question.

To answer yours, no.

By your logic, African-Americas are also "oversampled" in the Harvard student body. Weird.

Yes, I believe there are Asian-Americans who feel aggrieved. There are also whites, blacks, women, gays, lesbians and others who feel aggrieved too. Tons of kids who worked their tails off and were certainly qualified to be considered for schools like Harvard. But a manufactured lawsuit that complains about a fictional "less deserving black student" over the more deserving Asian student is ridiculous.

Classic scheme: The white system pitting minorities against each other.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That has never been true. POC who were QUALIFIED were admitted, it was never about admitting unqualified students. That a racist lie straight from hell!

If they were qualified, they wouldn't have needed affirmative action to admit them.

The whole issue is because there are a lot more students who meet the qualifications for Harvard and would likely to do well at Harvard, than the available slots at Harvard. The underlying issue is that Harvard is ridiculously overvalued by parents whose genius kids would be just as successful with degrees from any of 100 other excellent universities.

It is much more than a plus factor to pick between two equal candidates. Harvard gets a lot of qualified applications, but this ruling is about all colleges even if Harvard is just the plaintiff.

No, it's really only highly selective colleges that are affected.

When you are a school that accepts 80-100% of your applicants, this ruling is not going to affect you. And the majority of students attend schools that accept at such high levels. Only 6% of students attend a school with an admit rate at or below 25%.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/07/03/opinion/for-most-college-students-affirmative-action-was-not-enough.html

In the wake of the Supreme Court decision that struck down race-conscious admissions, we should recognize that, in practice, affirmative action mattered a great deal for very few and very little for most.

Yes, the decision will likely dramatically reduce the racial diversity of incoming classes at highly selective institutions like Harvard, Stanford and the University of North Carolina.

But because affirmative action only opened a tiny window of access to America’s most elite institutions, the ruling will make little difference for most college students.

Even with affirmative action in place, most students of color did not go to elite colleges, and last week’s ruling does nothing to change that. The current opportunity to bring racial equity to American higher education lies in a collective re-commitment to the quality and success of more accessible institutions.

Why will the minority admission rate drop drastically without affirmative action, if all the candidates are about equal, with over 100x applying vs the number who are qualified according to a previous poster?

Because (1) rich people can easily game this system as they do any system and you aren’t going to change that and (2) when there are too many qualified candidates the easiest way to distinguish between them is to exaggerate the weight of the quantifiable variables and deemphasize the unquantifiable variables, which favors those who have been groomed all their lives to excel at the SAT and other tests. In essence, you are picking the Harvard class based largely on how hard and how long their parents have obsessed over getting them into Harvard.

And, you think this has not also affected poor white kids? I graduated from a middle class high school many, many years ago. There were some very affluent kids in my class. I don't think any of my classmates went to an IVY. I'm not even sure that any applied. Almost all went to college, though. Mostly state colleges. Some went to highly regarded liberal arts colleges.

Yes, it absolutely affects low and moderate income white kids, but I was a moderate income public high school white boy from a Southern county high school who somehow got into Princeton, and all the Northeastern prep school students told me I was a diversity admit as if I hadn’t earned it. Pretty much anyone who did not attend an elite prep school is assumed to be a diversity reach by the prep school kids.

This ruling will hurt outstanding public high school students of all races and ethnicities because their high schools are assumed to be lesser so their grades and recommendations are not equivalent to those from prep schools.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Facts matter. The right has "won" again on this thanks to a corrupt court and the Federalist Society that has perfected gaming the system.

Is it your belief that no Asian Americans feel aggrieved by the recent admissions practices at elite colleges and universities?

These schools have single digit admit rates. No one is entitled to gain acceptance. The fact is, the Asian population makes up X percent of the US population. Asian students make up X+++ at these elite schools. They are already oversampled. Do you think the student bodies should just be all Asian students?

You didn't answer my question.

To answer yours, no.

By your logic, African-Americas are also "oversampled" in the Harvard student body. Weird.

Yes, I believe there are Asian-Americans who feel aggrieved. There are also whites, blacks, women, gays, lesbians and others who feel aggrieved too. Tons of kids who worked their tails off and were certainly qualified to be considered for schools like Harvard. But a manufactured lawsuit that complains about a fictional "less deserving black student" over the more deserving Asian student is ridiculous.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Facts matter. The right has "won" again on this thanks to a corrupt court and the Federalist Society that has perfected gaming the system.

Is it your belief that no Asian Americans feel aggrieved by the recent admissions practices at elite colleges and universities?

These schools have single digit admit rates. No one is entitled to gain acceptance. The fact is, the Asian population makes up X percent of the US population. Asian students make up X+++ at these elite schools. They are already oversampled. Do you think the student bodies should just be all Asian students?

You didn't answer my question.

To answer yours, no.

By your logic, African-Americas are also "oversampled" in the Harvard student body. Weird.

DP... this is the data I'm seeing-

US percentage black population: 12.1%
Harvard percentage black population: 8.7% - undersampled

US percentage asian population: 5.9%
Harvard percentage asian population: 21% - oversampled

Anonymous wrote:

HBCUs shouldn't be able to keep legacy admits. "Tradition" isn't really a justification since other legacy programs claim the same thing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Facts matter. The right has "won" again on this thanks to a corrupt court and the Federalist Society that has perfected gaming the system.

Is it your belief that no Asian Americans feel aggrieved by the recent admissions practices at elite colleges and universities?

These schools have single digit admit rates. No one is entitled to gain acceptance. The fact is, the Asian population makes up X percent of the US population. Asian students make up X+++ at these elite schools. They are already oversampled. Do you think the student bodies should just be all Asian students?

You didn't answer my question.

To answer yours, no.

By your logic, African-Americas are also "oversampled" in the Harvard student body. Weird.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Facts matter. The right has "won" again on this thanks to a corrupt court and the Federalist Society that has perfected gaming the system.

Is it your belief that no Asian Americans feel aggrieved by the recent admissions practices at elite colleges and universities?

These schools have single digit admit rates. No one is entitled to gain acceptance. The fact is, the Asian population makes up X percent of the US population. Asian students make up X+++ at these elite schools. They are already oversampled. Do you think the student bodies should just be all Asian students?

Anonymous wrote:

Facts matter. The right has "won" again on this thanks to a corrupt court and the Federalist Society that has perfected gaming the system.

Is it your belief that no Asian Americans feel aggrieved by the recent admissions practices at elite colleges and universities?

Facts matter. The right has "won" again on this thanks to a corrupt court and the Federalist Society that has perfected gaming the system.

So that everyone understands this case, a Canadian national student at Berkeley was recruited by the Federalist Society to prosecute this case against Harvard - who had an over sampled Asian student population, because they ran it through Federal courts and a SCOTUS that were tilted by Bush and Trump appointees.